Bitting issues.....

[L&M]

I recently bought a new horse, predominately for hunting, and some fun stuff over the summer mnths.

He is a 6 yr old 15.1hh 'over height' pure bred connie, and has already hunted 2 seasons with 2 different packs.

When I viewed him I was told he was hunted in a cheltenham gag, with only one rein. Initially I disagreed with them as hacked out in company and did a couple of fun rides in a milder bit, but now he has got his feet more under the table, has got stronger.

Also in a milder bit he tanks into jumps with his head down, which I fine very un nerving as cannot get a rthymical canter, let alone see a stride. I also worry that with his head between his knees he will be unsafe to jump, especially solid hunt jumps, as can't see what he is doing?!

I have been taking him for grid work and sj lessons to try and lighten him in the front and make him more responsive, but even my instructor is flumoxed about how to bit him.

So I see that I have 2 options - keep him in the cg in the hope that it gives me more control and brings his head up, or let him dictate his speed into a jump and pray!

It is a real shame as he is a very attractive horse, with lovely paces, and could do well in the dressage and show ring, but with this issue, am reluctant to try. Also he was sold via Malvern to the previous owner, and the ad stated he was hunted in a snaffle, so don't where things went wrong in his next home.

Any ideas?

Thaks in advance.

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

It might seem scary to have him tank into jumps with his head down, but wouldn't a few unnerving experiences for him stop this habit? I'd be tempted to persuade him to get away with it, bp up for cubbing and let him bring himself out of this habit... might be a little gung-ho for most people though!

If you jumped him in and out of plough for a season that would bring the back end under and his head up... difficult to try and replicate in the school though!

 

[JenHunt]

as he's only 6, and sounds like he's done a lot of hunting, I'd suggest that it is a schooling issue.... you may find that a summer of plenty of schooling and gridwork/gymnastic jumping he'll get better! Have you somewhere that you can loose school him down a line of bounces? He'll soon learn to keep himself "Up in front" like that - or more precisely, he won't be able to get his head down, and will realise that it's easier anyway!

as for bitting, how about a hanging cheek snaffle at home and keep the CG for 'parties' for now? you can always reassess later!

 

[somethingillremember]

The gag will give loads of poll pressure , so that wont help to bring his head up. You said a milder bit ... what is/was it ?

 

[s4sugar]

Why not use the Cheltenham gag correctly -with two reins?

 

[spacefaer]

I would spend the summer improving his self carriage on the flat and lots of gymnastic jumping - get him a bit more athletic and listening to you.

my young ID can get a bit keen and will drop his head and run into his fences - I have him in a waterford universal - can't lean on the waterford mouth piece and the 3 rings give me some lift to his shoulders.

I also make sure I get him back in front of the fence - almost with his head too high - make sure he's listening

 

[spacefaer]

Also when my guy was 5, he was a genuine snaffle mouth hunter (loose ring French link). Now he's just done his 3rd season he's somewhat keener lpl!

 

[L&M]

OMG - I feel such a fool.....!

This 'always ridden in a snaffle' from the last but one's owners ad in the Malvern sales catalogue has been really bugging me.

So yesterday I decided to completely change direction and popped him in a loose ring snaffle with a french link - would you believe it he cantered perfectly in the school with his head in a far better position, and today I popped some jumps in canter with his head up in a reasonable rhythmn, and could actually see a stride (and his ears!) for the first time in the 2 mnths of owning him!

Poor lad - I think he was crying out for a lesser bit all the time, and all I was doing was putting stronger bits in and make him evade by putting his head between his knees.

Am going to try hacking out with the snaffle and see how we go from there, as we may not be out of the woods yet, but am feeling a lot more positive.

Lord knows why he was hunted in a gag at his previous home, and can only think the one rein has made him hugely over bent and unhappy is his mouth. If I do find him strong come autumn hunting, I think I will go down the 2 rein route with a cg, and just hope I can ride him mainly off the snaffle rein.

Lesson well and truly learnt!!!!

 

[new]

Sounds like you have made good progress and in fact I was going to suggest trying a french link as any gag (including a waterford) puts considerable pressure on the pole lowering the head carriage still further.

However hunting is very different to schooling and hacking and people always bit their horses up as a result if you look at the old books it will say a horse "grows a hand" out hunting and this is a quaint way of saying they get stronger. Accordingly if you have had the horse locking on to jumps uncontrollably in a gag you will, in all probability, be unable to check him back in a french link out hunting either despite it working better in the lower adrenaline activities you describe.

There's no right answer to this one but there is a lot of sense in what Tinsel Trouble is saying. I had a similar problem and you'll find if he hits a few fences hard he will then become more hesitant in his jumping which will allow you to control him. Worth wearing a crash hat for this process!

An alternative is a short stint in a pellum as although they also provide downward pressure on the pole it is not as much pressure as a gag and you would definitely be able to slow him into jumps. If you do go down this route just use it for hunting and be sure to try to swap to a less harsh bit once he starts to come back to you.

Best of luck

 

[L&M]

Thanks New - it was the previous owner who hunted him in a CG. I haven't actually tried hunting him in one yet as only bought him at the end of our season.

The bits he leans/pulls on tend to be any with poll pressure or leverage - I have tried him on fun rides in a NS universal and a waterford gag, resulting in the head down tanking.

Will see how things progress - maybe a matter of 'do or die', but hopefully not the latter!

 

[Chamfrom]

I have had exactly the same problem with my darling boy - he is a 15.3hh ID strong chunky lad. I school him in a NS loose ring verbindend - hacks out in a waterford hanging cheek, as its a bit more strong if I needed it - and sometimes hacking out I do. But out hunting he just goes off on one - no amount of schooling will stop him when his blood is up. I tried a NS jumper but couldnt hold him in this - so this year will be in a running gag waterford. As much as I totally agree about schooling (I am classically trained and baulked at the idea of bitting up - this is why we school, hack and hunt in different bits) however, you have to stay safe for your horses sake - and if they run themselves into the back legs of the horse in front and get a fatal kick all because we dont like to bit up - the only other thing is to not go. My boys thoroughly enjoys his time out with hounds - but I hated mauling on his mouth in an effort to keep him under control - but take him in the school and he is superb in a loose ring - I think as long as you dont keep them in one bit all the time, school sensibly ie not using anything that gives a false outline etc - and use your brakes when you need them, safety is key - for everyones sakes