bitting/noseband advice please!

[goneshowjumping]

I have a 16.2hh TB gelding whom is now 5yrs. Im having a nightmare finding the right bit and/or noseband for him.
when I got him he was in a loose ring snaffle (being a ex racehorse thats what he was used to). I had a lot of head tossing in that so decided to get rid of the nutcracker action and brought a a french link sprenger for him, which he loved (also loose ring) but it rubbed the corners of his mouth(it had bit guards on it so shouldnt have rubbed!).... so back to the drawing board!
currently for jumping he is now in a hackamore which he goes lovely in for jumping, but I cannot use this for dressage and I would never use it XC so now I need something else! have been riding him in a loose ring sweet iron french link, which he seems ok in but now he is starting to put his tongue over the bit....i can see his tongue flapping out the side of his mouth which to me indicates he aint a happy boy!
he goes ok with a flash noseband which stops the opening of the mouth and tongue out, but not sure he is totally happy with a flash!
arggghhhh why is bitting so damn difficult!
im really looking for opinions, he has had his teeth checked and back and had a MOT recently with the vet so all is ok, just wondered if anyone else had this prob with their TB?

A mammoth cookie and a nice cold jug of pimms if you get this far

 

[Kat]

Well if a loose ting rubs I'd switch to an eggbut. Most horses are ok with the switch, though you could try a fulmer as an alternative.

It sounds like he is a bit uncomfortable with the French link, you could try a lozenge link or a single Jou.t that is angled like a demi anky or verbidend. I'd be inclined to look as NS bits.

I think if you concentrate on getting a bit for flat work sorted that should give you a starting point for a xc bit. But a kimblewick might be worth a try as a Cambridge mouth would be good for his tongue but the curb would give you extra control.

 

[goneshowjumping]

a kimblewick is something I was looking into, but was worried about the curb effect, as he is very sensitive everywhere!!! I know someone with one so I suppose its worth a shot!
love the NS range of bits but with the current finacial status my bank account is not liking them!!!

 

[Tnavas]

I put my TB in a French Link - 45mins later he had his tongue over the bit and was having a really dangerous tantrum in the middle of the road.

When I got him off the track he went into a Fulmer with keepers and a drop noseband and went really well in it. Never managed to get him out of the tongue over the bit behaviour so he had to wear a tongue grid.

If he was happy in his loose ring then put him back in it - you may have had one that was too narrow so try one a ½" wider.

 

[why1040]

There are some fab bit banks where you can hire a bit for a period of time to try it out before you buy. That way if you don't get on with it, you haven't spent a fortune on it and can move on to something else! Also used NS bits do come up on ebay reasonably regularly which can save some pennies!

Which part of the mouth was the bit rubbing? Was it right in the corner of the lip where it enters, or the side of the mouth? If it was the side, then like the previous poster I'd try a fixed ring of some shape as that'll move less. And for the record, I've had the bit guards actually be the culprit in rubbing, it might not have been the bit itself!

I'm never happy using flash nosebands just for the sake of it...if he's sticking his tongue out it'll be due to an issue of some shape. They can be useful for short-term reteaching a horse that's picked up a habit though (we have one of these at the yard...he's just one of those tonguey horses). Personally I'd be tempted to leave him in a cavesson for a time while you play around with bits to see if it makes a difference

If he's happy in a hackamore, it indicates that he's not averse to facial pressure, so a kimblewick or even a pelham could be a really viable bet. I jumped my old horse in a pelham in the end as it was the only thing he would stop in. You can use an elastic curb if you're worried about it being too strong. In some ways they can actually be gentler as long as you have good hands, as not all the pressure is on the mouth. Alternatively, once you have a mouthpiece your horse is happy with, extrapolate that to a gag of the same type, which will give you some poll pressure without the curb action.

Bits...a whole science of their own!

 

[goneshowjumping]

thanks why1040 and yes it is a complete nightmare!
think ill try the kimblewick and a pelham!
should i go for a straight bar pelham? you see now I am worried im going to got the wrong joint!! lol arghhhh i hate this bitting thing!!