Bitting specialists/ fellow eventers- i need your help!

IncaCola

IncaCola

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 December 2008
Messages
460
Location
South West
Visit site
Hi I have a tremendously talented eventer just going 2 star, but i am struggling getting his biting right, so have come on here in desperation for some ideas. He is incredibly bold and strong and unless i have him really anchored and slow he will jerk his head up and run the last few strides to the fence. For big galloping fences i can just about leave him alone, but have to spend a lot of time and energy getting him back for combinations and tight turns.
link for him on xc at hambleden intermediate below
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=590527607631688&set=vb.111461918928324&type=3&theater

As a result i am getting lots of time faults, frustrating when he really is in contention for the prizes and also not always having a totally smooth ride, although his heart and scope gets himself out of any trouble so far. He currently is in a tomb thumb with rollers with a controller noseband and a curb strap which i know is quite a severe combination and he does object to it a bit when warming up. I have previously tried a myler long shank, nathe american gag, nathe pelham (without combination noseband) and had no breaks, but looking at the videos i have realised i do need to get his head down and neck a bit rounder and softer into the fence.

People have suggested a double bridle or german hackamore together with a bit, but the idea of two reins cross country does scare me a bit. Also thought of the combination bits that Abbey do. has anyone used these, have any feed back; i think they are basically a american gag cross hackamore. The final complication i have is that he does also have a tendency to split the corners of his mouth when pulling hard which just makes him stronger so ideally want a smooth mouthpiece (at the moment he has latex wrapped round his tomb thumb) and preferably some sort of cheeks to help with turning.

Any suggestions/feedback welcome. Am planning to hire a bunch of bits to try so let me know if you have any ideas.
 
Have you been in contact with one of the bit banks? There's one based in Leicestershire that does good advice and has a large range of bits
 
There are a few Myler options you might try, and I'd also speak to Bomber bits. Mikmars don't seem to be popular here but another line worth investigation.
 
I'm afraid I'm not very knowledgable on bits but I can vouch for the combination noseband being useful on horses that cross their jaws and run to fences. Potentially worth a try? I have a couple so would happily lend you one to try :)

He looks fabulous though - and soooo bold over the corner out of the water! Was on such a yuk distance and those that added the stride made it look very uncomfortable! Best of luck finding a solution :)
 
The two strongest horses I ever rode XC (both Advanced), one went in a Waterford American Gag with Controller noseband - this was recommended to me by Mary King who used this combo on Apple who was very strong, in fact she lent me hers to try before I bought, and a Combination Sprenger mouthpiece American Gag with the sheepskin removed from the nose bit, so it was rubber against the nose. I still have this bit if you want to try it, but I would want it back sharpish... I couldn't see your video so I'm not going on your horse, just on my own experiences...
 
I have a young mare which like your horse is extremely brave and requires hours of setting up and means loads of time faults! I have finally found brakes in the way of a nathe combination. If the nathe isn't strong enough equiport do similar combination bits with any mouth piece you would like.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Yes i have had a chat with a couple of bit banks. Lex, i am already using a combination noseband and it does defintely help. Water jumps are about the only fence he backs himself off, but as you saw he is still very bold out! Table dancer i did try a nathe american gag with combination noseband last year and it didnt have much effect! It was around a novice course though where nothing backed him off. Also dont they (and also the tomb thumb i am using at present) tend to raise the head when i think i need something to bring his head down and in. Apart from a pelham what other bits would do this? Slightly worried that a waterford mouth piece will rip his mouth. Tarr steps i did have a look at the mikmar bit and have emailed them but would love more info on it. ELLEsj i think i will give a combination bit a try, although unable to hire the nathe one, Abbey now do metal ones you can hire which arent quite so pricey.
 
My initial thought was going the German hackamore route. Also try a kineton.

In addition, have you tried a big fluffy sheepskin nose?

Another tiny thing, which I appreciate is difficult in the circumstances, but at times your hands are held quite high
 
OOps, Lex sorry i've got confused. I thought controller and combination nosebands were the same! The one i have lies like a drop on the nose with both a high back strap and a low strap connected by a metal bit that goes round the bit. So different than a kineton. Think it is the jefferies combination. How does the controller differ...
 
I had a look at your stunning photos on your Facebook page and it looks to me like you have a combination on at Hamblden - or at least it's the same noseband as I have and I call it a combination ;) no idea on controller noseband I'm afraid... TableDancer...?!?
 
yes i do agree about my hands and something i am working on:) When he isnt strong i keep them down but i think i raise them to try and get a response when he is storming off! Good idea re fluffly nose band although would have to wear two nosebands if i continue with the combination noseband
 
Have you tried a vulcanite Pelham and a grackle noseband. I tried everything with one of mine, nothing worked except for this combo! Sounds fairly mild but worked a treat!
 
I'm no biting expert or anything but you said earlier you were worried about a Waterford ripping his mouth up but I use it on my gelding and it hasn't really done anything to his mouth, though he isn't anywhere near as strong as your gelding by the sounds of things! :)
 
I ride my strong horse in a Waterford mouth piece, his mouth corners have split in the past when he's been pulling me around the XC. Someone suggested I try rubbing Vaseline in the corners of his mouth just before XC, and since then his mouth hasn't split once!
Might be worth a try if the Waterford mouth piece is what works best.
 
Ditto the Vaseline if you're worried about his mouth, I don't do much XC but for any fast work I always put it round my girls mouth as she has s tendency of pulling and chaffing her mouth. Makes such a difference
 
Hi Mule, the link takes me to a page with loads of different combination bits so not sure which one you mean, but would really love to try. I will pm you. He already has bit butter and manuka honey on his mouth liberally. Very annoying as during winter dressage and show jumping is mouth is fine, but once he starts going xc his mouth splits really easy even when just schooling in his ns snaffle when he leans on me.
 
I use a 3 ring gag with 2 mouthpieces, a grackle and a leather curb strap on the gag and it works fairly well. Horse has a big fleshy tongue which i think is why it works.
Q
 
Sorry - went to bed! The noseband OP is describing is called a Controller noseband, in my experience. To work properly it has to be done up REALLY tightly, I used rubber curb guards on back straps to stop them digging in.

Combinations are bit/nosebands, the ones that act on both the mouth and the nose, and they can be great for horses which pull hard but hate a strong mouthpiece. Myler combinations are one sort, but even the long shank one didn't really touch the sides on my horse. The Combination which worked for him was a Sprenger lozenge mouthpiece, so quite mild, on long shank American Gag cheeks, with a rubber covered metal nose element, so quite a bit stronger on the nose than the Myler. The nose piece came with a sheepskin cover, but we had to remove this. This worked well :)

Interestingly, and as an aside, this horse had nearly two years off with a tendon injury, and when he came back he never pulled quite so hard, and I found I could manage him in a Tom Thumb Gag. Funny things, horses, aren't they?!
 
This is what I have and what I would call a combination noseband -
http://www.katenegus.com/shop/product/combination-noseband/
http://www.ejeffries.co.uk/product/479543/ANBCL/_/Combination_Lever_Noseband

But just googled Controller noseband and found the same thing - :confused: :confused:
http://www.equusport.com/item.php?item_id=313&category_id=69

OP - does your horse cross his jaw at all? You could try the bit guards with brushes on the inside??


TableDancer said:
Sorry - went to bed! The noseband OP is describing is called a Controller noseband, in my experience. To work properly it has to be done up REALLY tightly, I used rubber curb guards on back straps to stop them digging in.

Combinations are bit/nosebands, the ones that act on both the mouth and the nose, and they can be great for horses which pull hard but hate a strong mouthpiece. Myler combinations are one sort, but even the long shank one didn't really touch the sides on my horse. The Combination which worked for him was a Sprenger lozenge mouthpiece, so quite mild, on long shank American Gag cheeks, with a rubber covered metal nose element, so quite a bit stronger on the nose than the Myler. The nose piece came with a sheepskin cover, but we had to remove this. This worked well :)

Interestingly, and as an aside, this horse had nearly two years off with a tendon injury, and when he came back he never pulled quite so hard, and I found I could manage him in a Tom Thumb Gag. Funny things, horses, aren't they?!
Click to expand...
 
TableDancer said:
Hee Hee clearly they have two names, but that is what I would refer to as a Controller Noseband :) I've found a link to the sort of Combination bit I was talking about - this is te Bomber version, I had a Sprenger lozenge mouthpiece but the rest was similar...

http://www.bombers.co.za/new-products/product/8091-bomber-hybrid-nathe.html
Click to expand...

Well that makes things a bit blooming confusing hey! Makes sense to call it a controller when there are multitudes of combination bits on the market!! Good old HHO, every day is a school day :)
 
Sorry I cannot watch the video now but my expierence with my strong horse led me to cheltenham gags and then balding cheltenham gags. I tried him in an American gag and would duck behind the contact, then snatch his head and pee off! Too strong for him (he has a very soft mouth!) but he also hated 3 ring gags. He worked from snaffle, to kineton, to pelham (then with kineton) then to balding gags.

He started with a hollow mouth piece, then worked up to Waterford mouthpiece. I also brought a 'w' or Barry mouthpiece version (2 mouthpieces) as the next step but only ever used this at home when having the last few gallops before a 3 day (was a little ***** for these as knew the fields and undulations and would take his own routes!!!).

So basically what I'm thinking if you don't like the waterford mouthpiece idea try a 'W' mouthpiece (just snaffle) and probably with the combination noseband (or maybe grackle first time if your brave!) as they cannot lean at all on this mouthpiece (ok some might try!). You could also wrap the mouthpieces as well as a just in case.

Like this: http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=365
 
I don't event but used to show jump a very strong chunky mare and the only thing I could hold her in was a Waterford and a german hackamore. She was very polite in this combination. The bit bank also suggested a swales pelham.
I'm watching this thread as my new horse is nothing like as strong but he tends to accumulate alot of speed throughout the course which can make distances dangerous. He also has a very high head carriage so I'm staying away dfrom gags. My list to try is Pelham but think he will lean, german hackamore and Waterford and a double.
 
Fortunately I have never had this level of braking problems, but a friend rides her advanced horse in a driving bit with really long shanks. Looks weird when you see it close up, but it works - most times.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top