Blind panic/breaking off when tied up?

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BEUnderTheInfluence

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Hi there, this is the thing.....

I have a 4yr old TB gelding, he was in training but pulled out due to a minor injury when younger and never raced. He's generally very polite and courteous on the ground and doesn't put a foot wrong, however he has this strange habbit.

When tied up, if something upsets him or makes him uneasy he steps back...the rope then obviously pulls and as soon as he reaches the end of the rope he goes into a panic and pulls back resulting in the bailing twine snapping/ headcollar breaking or actually tearing the metal ring pull off the wall :eek:

The first couple of times I think he was genuinley panicked but the other day I was grooming him and I could tell he was about to do it...he just casually stepped back...raised his head and yanked himself off the wall. Then today he went into a fit because a horse walked past (:rolleyes:) and I tried to untie him before the inevitable happened but nope....another heacollar broken.

I held him for the farrier today instead with one of those stringy headcollars that have pressure points and he shot backwards prompting a right good yelling at from the farrier and was put in his place between the both of us. I haven't really known what to do as there seems no point upsetting him further when he's already being a loon but today I just got a little fed up with it.

Any advise? (The horse does infact need to be tied up as I don't have a little servant to hold him for me night and day)
 
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I use a longer than normal rope and loop it through a tie ring attached to a very solid wall, I don't tie up, I hang onto the end of the rope whilst grooming etc. Then I can judge whether I need to tug back to say "Oy that's rude" or give so that there's no pressure to pull against. I find that they educate themselves quite easily if you are there to give reminders as required to start with.
 
This wouldn't be everyone's way of keeping them tied up but..... My old horse (racehorse) used to pull back the whole time and it drove me insane. Like your horse he would pull the ring's out of brick walls (these were threaded through not screwed in!), snap headcollars, break string etc. He would pull back for no reason other than because he could. Like yours he'd just jerk his head and snap he's loose. He still does it now every now and again to show me that he still can. Anyway I stood to the side of his stable door with a broom and everytime he pulled back he got a broom up his derrier. It did work.... I chain mine to the wall but they all have baler twine on their headcollars so they can escape if they panic. It didn't take too long for him to realise that it was my way or a broom up his bottom.
 
I do tend to tie up very loosely so that I can manoover them about, by no means is he hanging from the wall as I hate that...

I daren't tie him up just to a metal ring as I've seen horses literally choking themselves and almost sat on the floor when in a panic....ehh....:o
 
amymay said:
Really? It was meant to be helpful.

Does a horse need to be tied up every two minutes? No.
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No he doesn't need to be tied up every two minutes, but when tacking up and having to go backwards and forewards I do need him to stay in one place for a few moments... I don't fanny about, he's brought in groomed, tacked up all pretty sharpish so he's not hanging about...Sorry if I sounded a little snappy, I thought you were being sarcastic :p
 
jemima_too said:
I use a longer than normal rope and loop it through a tie ring attached to a very solid wall, I don't tie up, I hang onto the end of the rope whilst grooming etc. Then I can judge whether I need to tug back to say "Oy that's rude" or give so that there's no pressure to pull against. I find that they educate themselves quite easily if you are there to give reminders as required to start with.
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Same.
Or just get tacked up etc in the stable?
I clip/tak up/groom my mare in the stable untied, no probs :)
 
BEUnderTheInfluence said:
I do tend to tie up very loosely so that I can manoover them about, by no means is he hanging from the wall as I hate that...

I daren't tie him up just to a metal ring as I've seen horses literally choking themselves and almost sat on the floor when in a panic....ehh....:o
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If that's a response to me may I recommend you re-read my first post as it suggests looping the rope through the ring, not tieing it up.
 
BEUnderTheInfluence said:
I do tend to tie up very loosely so that I can manoover them about, by no means is he hanging from the wall as I hate that...

I daren't tie him up just to a metal ring as I've seen horses literally choking themselves and almost sat on the floor when in a panic....ehh....:o
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I certainly wouldn't tie straight to the ring and especially not with a nylon headcollar. Asking for trouble..... My horses are always chained up pretty short. I think my chains are about 18 inches and then allow for 2 or 3 inches of baler twine. Somthing like that anyway. Nothing worse than when they are messing around and get their head under a rope or chain that's too long and then they panic with it over their head.
 
What I forgot to mention is that he has to be tied up when brought in as he doesn't at present have a stable I can put him in....which is probably why you're all wondering why I don't just "not tie him up", he has to stand on the yard for 10 minutes
 
Most racehorses, yours would have been started as one, are never tied up outside the stable , for several reasons safety within a busy yard being the main one.
If he has learnt this habit it may take a long while to stop, I would not tie him outside yet, get him used to being groomed in his box with the rope threaded through the ring so if he starts to go you can take hold and stop him without an argument.
He may also have hurt his poll in the past, the wings of the axis?[sp] can become damaged causing him to overeact when he feels the headcollar against it.
I would get him checked and try avoidance rather than forcing the issue, some time and confidence building he will get better, we had an exracer here not long ago that tied up in one part of the yard but panicked in a different place, he damaged his poll in the process.
 
Well get everything ready before you get him in, then use a long rope and loop it through the ring so you can hold him whilst you get him sorted out. Oh and you can use that method to educate him as well.
 
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BEUnderTheInfluence said:
No he doesn't need to be tied up every two minutes, but when tacking up and having to go backwards and forewards I do need him to stay in one place for a few moments... I don't fanny about, he's brought in groomed, tacked up all pretty sharpish so he's not hanging about...Sorry if I sounded a little snappy, I thought you were being sarcastic :p
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No - not sarcastic.

Have to be honest, I rarely tie a horse up - and almost certainly never outside his stable.
 
amymay said:
No - not sarcastic.

Have to be honest, I rarely tie a horse up - and almost certainly never outside his stable.

In your case, I'd just pop him in his stable and groom, tack up etc. without tying.
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If you would look up, I mentioned before that at present he doesn't have a stable on the yard. He's turned out for now with a feild shelter and has to be brought into the main yard....hence....I don't have the option of "Not tieing up" ....he has to be tied up as there is nowhere else to put him.
 
I had an idiot of a pony who did this all the time - he was 15 and not frightened of anything so there was no reason for him to do it. I found using an elastic hair band (you can get quite long ones worn like an alice band) between the headcollar and lead rope helped as the stretch seemed to confuse him as he couldn't immediately break free but it would break if he really pulled back. I was also advised to try a rope type of halter used for cattle, which helped if he was being bolshy to lead but you couldn't leave him tied up unattended. It did help and at least I wasn't buying a new headcollar & leadrope every week.
 
If it is becomming a habit you could try standing behind to the side with a brush (bristle side up) and as soon as he starts to pull back touch him with the bristles. It does work to break the habit.

Other thing you could try is not tying directly to ring but to a sinker and he can pull back and forward and the rope comes too so dosen't become very tight which is why he could be panicking.
 
You can buy those elasticated ropes, I have 2. The hard snatch of a nylon rope is what frightens them, the elastic ones have give and a gentle return. I find they work a treat.
 
be positive said:
Most racehorses, yours would have been started as one, are never tied up outside the stable , for several reasons safety within a busy yard being the main one.
If he has learnt this habit it may take a long while to stop, I would not tie him outside yet, get him used to being groomed in his box with the rope threaded through the ring so if he starts to go you can take hold and stop him without an argument.
He may also have hurt his poll in the past, the wings of the axis?[sp] can become damaged causing him to overeact when he feels the headcollar against it.
I would get him checked and try avoidance rather than forcing the issue, some time and confidence building he will get better, we had an exracer here not long ago that tied up in one part of the yard but panicked in a different place, he damaged his poll in the process.
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i sort of agree with this, I think you should have everything ready before you tie him up so you don't have to leave him unattended, and no long ropes, they cause accidents, including rope burns round the legs!
 
Find a very secure tie ring and use a bum rope.
Personally I use a bum rope on all mine so that they have something behind them that sends them forwards again. Use a long soft rope, make a loop that fits around the hindquarters and is secured at the withers with a bowline knot. The long ends threads through the throat of the headcollar and then through the ring then tie to the tie up ring. Make sure the place you tie up to is strong and not likely to break. When the horse pulls back the pressure of the rope around his quarters sends him forwards again.
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One of the problems with TB's is that they are rarely properly tied up to the point that they accept it. Usually cross tied when anything needs to be done.

How we teach the yearlings being prepped for the sales is to thread the rope throough the tie ring and then twist it back on its self, this gives a little resistance then slips releasing the horse. The more you wrap the rope around itself the more resistance it gives. Eventually after a few threats the horse realises that he can be tied up and safe.

Attach a 'Log' to the end of the rope, this adds a constant weight on the rope but allows the horse to move around a little taking the 'trapped' feeling away.

One important thing to do after a horse has pulled back is have the back person in to fix the poll - pulling back is one of the main causes of the poll being out of alignment.
 
My TB used to be just the same. He got himself in such a panic once he fell over and just about pulled a whole tie up post (telegraph pole type) on top of him.

We used to use trailer ties - This sort ... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EQUITIE-t...ries_SM&var=&hash=item6b1c36cf33#ht_500wt_816

They are dead cheap so you can get a few!

They are elasticated so give quite a bit before just popping open. I found that once my horse felt them give, he didn't panic as much. And if he did, it was fine as they would snap open.
 
i have one who would not be tied up, did exactly the same as yours would step back feel the pull of the rope and panic:rolleyes:
my solution was pretty much what others have already suggested, to make sure i had everything ready on the yard before he came in, get him in and attach him to a lunge line fed through the ring.
To start with i held the line so that as soon as he stepped back i could put gentle pressure on and reel him back in. With nothing to really pull against he stopped scaring himself and we were half way there. next i started putting up a haynet to keep him occupied and just had a long lead rope through the ring but not tied, just in case ;) a few weeks of him standing happily like that and i started to tie him up , right at the end of the rope so he still has room to step back without feeling any resistance.
As long as i have everything organised so that i don't have to walk away from him he will now stand tied up with a haynet.:) soon i'll start working on getting him to stand without me being there, but that will be back on the lunge line and with a second person, as far out of sight as possible, to do the reeling in.
 
Don't tie up is good advice. I have a 31 year old mare i've owned for 16 years. Tried everything but had to just not tie up as she still breaks everything. At her current age it's too likely to be her neck to risk it.
 
One way is use a lunge rein, and just thread it thorough the ring to the head collar you holding the end. You can then give and take as much as you need.

Once that is fine, using two lead ropes tie the first one up as normal, ob using baler twine and clipped to the head collar.
The second one tie it up as long as it goes again to twine and clipped to the head collar. When he breaks the first he still wouldnt be free as the second is in place giving you time to move him forwards and he will learn that pulling back does make him free.
 
My horse does this, it's a tantrum. If he doesn't get his own way on something i.e. If he doesn't want me to sprat mane & tail on him, or brush his forelock. He walks back, and at the end of the rope, YANKS himself backwards, so either the headcollar/rope/string/gate breaks. He bent the 5 bar gate somehow doing it. He only does it on occasion, tempremental old man/

At 14, this isn't going to stop, and the more you faff with it the worse he is.
I expect him to be tied up, and know how to stand quietly, he's not a baby, he knows what he's doing. When he does it, obviously at the time I can't do anything, but as soon as he's broken away, he gets a tug on the rope, and shouted at, then tied back up.

Obviously, with a race horse, as others have said, he doesn't understand being tied up, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't learn how to if he is young (is he young? Obviously if they are older, they are set in their ways & it is harder).

The longline/pulley system is good, as is having a bungey string. Persevere with being firm but fair, and if he does break off, tie him back up and carry on as normal. Don't rush everything in a mad panic in fear of him breaking off, you'll be tense, he'll be tense, take your time and eventually he should learn that it's ok to just stand be.

He might always try it on, but if it can become occasional rather than every day, better than nothing if you don't have a stall!
 
Murphy does this in a tantrum. We were advised to make a loop with a tail bandage, attach that to baler twine and then tie him to the bandage. When he pulled back he didn't meet the expected resistance and after a bit of stamping and throwing his head about he gave up. I know of a few people who have tried this method and it does seem to work.
 
I'm reading this thread with interest, my mums gelding is a wiley old lad and knows this trick! It is just a trick with him, he's not scared of anything, just if he doesn't want fussing over he will just calmly pull backwards snapping the baler twine, and mooch off. I like the idea of using a tail bandage to make a loop, so there's nothing for him to pull against as it will stretch. He's much better recently as my mum has done a lot of ground work with him and they have really bonded. Maybe it is/was a trust issue?
 
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