Blocking at the Jaw

[only_me]

Hi guys, wondering if can get some advice!

Billy has a tendency to block from his jaw, which affects tension throughout rest of body. It also leads to opening of his mouth and showing obvious resistance. He is worse on the right rein, on the left it is much better.

I know 80% is due to my hands, I have a tendency to hang on his mouth on the right rein but I am working really hard on this and today we finished off a short schooling session with what I can only describe as the most awesome right trot I have ever got out of him; I think I might finally understand the true feeling of through! He relaxed his jaw, felt him lift underneath me and power through. There was no tension, resistance and he felt balanced. Such a feeling! And now I know what he has kept under wraps

So it Kinda feels like I've dipped my toe into the search for the Holy Grail!! I was wondering is there anything I can change tack wise to decrease or lessen the resistance/blocking from the jaw?

Obviously fixing my hands is the biggest issue but would changing bits or nosebands help him relax in the jaw?

Currently he is in a NS verdibrand, and a grackle, mostly for comfort/to stop him eating his reins :rolleyes3: He is slightly tricky to bit as he constantly plays with the bit with his tongue or trys to put it over.

Any suggestions or tips on what to do would be very much appreciated!

 

[Farma]

Do you have a video? I would suggest you video yourself and look at what you're doing with your position and hands but you may need to spend some time not using much contact to learn the balance to gain a more independent seat so the reins can be used more lightly. Think long and low and practise transitions within the pace just from using your seat and slowing and increasing the rhythm. Once you develop a better seat then reintroduce more rein contact and give it some time with a good instructor. Maybe some lunge lessons could help too?
Good luck x

 

[only_me]

Thanks for replying

I know the issues with my hands, and ride mostly from my seat with feel but it becomes a chicken/egg scenario - jaw is blocked and he can either run through or resist bending so he becomes unbalanced which leads to me using inside rein too much (worse on right) and that feeling of hanging on.
Long and low without contact isn't good for him as he just tried to run onto his forehand, which is what I'm trying to stop.
It really is just the blocking from the jaw that is preventing the true through (aware that my hanging when he does resist isn't helping).

We are only in fittness work at present (uni exams/hols) so only working in walk/trot at present so he does become unbalanced easily which is why the jaw block is worse at present and before his mini hols dressage wise working at medium and competing elementary although the trot wasn't as good as what I got yesterday

We do lots of transitions normally in our work and lots of si/ly/hp/Demi pirouettes and turns on forehand to improve suppleness and do spirals etc. I just want to get him to relax the jaw as we do them. All of above are fine on left rein but he finds it much harder on right which is when I start to hang as a response to "control" the running

 

[Farma]

Thanks for replying

I know the issues with my hands, and ride mostly from my seat with feel but it becomes a chicken/egg scenario - jaw is blocked and he can either run through or resist bending so he becomes unbalanced which leads to me using inside rein too much (worse on right) and that feeling of hanging on.
Long and low without contact isn't good for him as he just tried to run onto his forehand, which is what I'm trying to stop.
It really is just the blocking from the jaw that is preventing the true through (aware that my hanging when he does resist isn't helping).

We are only in fittness work at present (uni exams/hols) so only working in walk/trot at present so he does become unbalanced easily which is why the jaw block is worse at present and before his mini hols dressage wise working at medium and competing elementary although the trot wasn't as good as what I got yesterday

We do lots of transitions normally in our work and lots of si/ly/hp/Demi pirouettes and turns on forehand to improve suppleness and do spirals etc. I just want to get him to relax the jaw as we do them. All of above are fine on left rein but he finds it much harder on right which is when I start to hang as a response to "control" the running

Flexing the poll whilst keeping the body straight in all paces should help but keeping the rhythm through your seat and legs, also passive resistance when blocking down the rein? its hard without seeing!

 

[only_me]

Flexing the poll whilst keeping the body straight in all paces should help but keeping the rhythm through your seat and legs, also passive resistance when blocking down the rein? its hard without seeing!

Yes, i was doing that today in field, we spent about 20mins in walk just flexing pole and back and got some really nice work, and then moved up into trot and managed to keep the jaw relaxed for the most part. It is difficult! So many things to think about as well as making sure he is working from behind and not just leaning and pulling but there were some great bits of trot work and I was able to sit in better balance as he relaxed his jaw more

I find it difficult to describe what I feel and have no one to video for me but I might try a recorder on a barrel and work beside it - but it does appear we are moving in the right direction as I got the awesome trot from yesterday today, so hopefully as he builds up the correct muscle again will find it easier to let go with his mouth

 

[Farma]

Yes, i was doing that today in field, we spent about 20mins in walk just flexing pole and back and got some really nice work, and then moved up into trot and managed to keep the jaw relaxed for the most part. It is difficult! So many things to think about as well as making sure he is working from behind and not just leaning and pulling but there were some great bits of trot work and I was able to sit in better balance as he relaxed his jaw more

I find it difficult to describe what I feel and have no one to video for me but I might try a recorder on a barrel and work beside it - but it does appear we are moving in the right direction as I got the awesome trot from yesterday today, so hopefully as he builds up the correct muscle again will find it easier to let go with his mouth

Good luck with it, do you have a dressage instructor? I spend quite a lot of time flexing the poll and adjusting the length of neck and frame and keeping them forward but adjusting the tempo, easier said than done for some but for me that keeps them nice and light and forward thinking x

 

[only_me]

Good luck with it, do you have a dressage instructor? I spend quite a lot of time flexing the poll and adjusting the length of neck and frame and keeping them forward but adjusting the tempo, easier said than done for some but for me that keeps them nice and light and forward thinking x

Yes, have an instructor but haven't actually had a lesson since last november... Must do something about that!! He isn't fit enough for one yet but maybe in the next couple of weeks will get another
i can feel that the other pieces are in place its just the last one missing (jaw) as when he does relax it the work he produces feels really, really good!

 

[Fides]

My girl is the same and the dentist has been out and it seems he first molar is slightly long and her second molar worn a bit creating an indentation making it easy for her to grab the bit. Now they are filed flat she doesn't have this issue.

Has a good dentist looked at her teeth? Mine was only minimal and missed by one dentist but it has made a huge difference!

 

[only_me]

My girl is the same and the dentist has been out and it seems he first molar is slightly long and her second molar worn a bit creating an indentation making it easy for her to grab the bit. Now they are filed flat she doesn't have this issue.

Has a good dentist looked at her teeth? Mine was only minimal and missed by one dentist but it has made a huge difference!

Dentist saw him 5-6 months ago so could be worth getting him out again, he is excellent I usually keep an eye out for any signs of sharp teeth and couldn't feel anything sharp but have no idea how to check for a longish molar! Thank you

 

[Fides]

Dentist saw him 5-6 months ago so could be worth getting him out again, he is excellent I usually keep an eye out for any signs of sharp teeth and couldn't feel anything sharp but have no idea how to check for a longish molar! Thank you

The thing with hers was that they weren't sharp, they just had a groove in that the bit fit in just perfectly, allowing her to clamp down on it. She's a different horse now she has been levelled

 

[LEC]

Honestly I would ditch the grackle and use a drop. I find grackles can encourage tightness in the jaw but never get it in a drop. I stopped using grackles years ago for flat and think this is why you don't see them a huge amount at 4*dressage despite being legal.

 

[meardsall_millie]

To my mind a horse fixes the jaw because it's either trying to stabilise something that's annoying it or is uncomfortable in the mouth (eg, fiddling hands, a bit that's too sharp for it) or because it's setting against something and creating a tug of war (eg, strong or fixed hands, or as LEC says an unsuitable noseband). Obviously you need to do some detective work to find out which it is and why, and adjust accordingly.

Once you've sorted out the source of the issue (there could be more than one and it could take a while to suss it out), I'd then aim to gently and carefully do some poll flexions to encourage the release.

 

[only_me]

Honestly I would ditch the grackle and use a drop. I find grackles can encourage tightness in the jaw but never get it in a drop. I stopped using grackles years ago for flat and think this is why you don't see them a huge amount at 4*dressage despite being legal.

Ah ok thank you I have a drop that might fit him, unfortunately it's quite hard to find a XF drop!
But I do have a micklem, which might be worth a try, thank you

 

[only_me]

To my mind a horse fixes the jaw because it's either trying to stabilise something that's annoying it or is uncomfortable in the mouth (eg, fiddling hands, a bit that's too sharp for it) or because it's setting against something and creating a tug of war (eg, strong or fixed hands, or as LEC says an unsuitable noseband). Obviously you need to do some detective work to find out which it is and why, and adjust accordingly.

Once you've sorted out the source of the issue (there could be more than one and it could take a while to suss it out), I'd then aim to gently and carefully do some poll flexions to encourage the release.

Thanks
I was thinking I might go back to a fixed ring bit, it could be that with him playing with the bit with his tongue and a loose ring is too much movement in his mouth, so I could stabilise one part. What do you think?
I think a change of noseband would be next move, worth a try anyway

 

[Fides]

Thanks
I was thinking I might go back to a fixed ring bit, it could be that with him playing with the bit with his tongue and a loose ring is too much movement in his mouth, so I could stabilise one part. What do you think?
I think a change of noseband would be next move, worth a try anyway

If you think it is the bit movement you could try a hanging cheek - these keep them really still

 

[meardsall_millie]

I also ride mine in the NS Verbindend (he's a chunky IDx) and I do find it's at the sharper end of the loose ring snaffles. Every now and then he objects to it so I swap to a chunky snaffle (still loose ring) for a week or so, until he starts to lean on it (!), then I switch back. I've also swapped to a drop (he was in a grackle for ages, then I swapped to pure dressage so he went to a flash). He's so much lighter and more consistent (but then I've also been doing a LOT of work on my hands too ).

 

[only_me]

Maybe that is one of the causes as well, it could be that it is too harsh and my hands exacerbate the severity.
I had just ordered a drop so fingers crossed that will help

 

[Primitive Pony]

Have you had a physio/chiropractor see him? - possible TMj disfunction?

 

[Mike007]

Get a top class EDT to check his teeth,it made all the difference for us.I had teeth done regularly ,but only when I went to a specialist ,I found that my horse had a number of dental problems (WHICH I COULD SEE WHEN THE EDT SHOWED ME)He showed me that whilst my horse had no sharp edges , his jaw was completely lopsided and his incisors did not meet correctly.He explained that this causes pain in the poll/neck. It has not been a "miracle cure" (only feed suplement manufacturers offer those, ) It has been an up hill struggle but getting the teeth done has been the turning point .

 

[only_me]

Have you had a physio/chiropractor see him? - possible TMj disfunction?

He sees a good Physio regularly and no tank issues found, will ask her to check next time she is up though

 

[only_me]

Get a top class EDT to check his teeth,it made all the difference for us.I had teeth done regularly ,but only when I went to a specialist ,I found that my horse had a number of dental problems (WHICH I COULD SEE WHEN THE EDT SHOWED ME)He showed me that whilst my horse had no sharp edges , his jaw was completely lopsided and his incisors did not meet correctly.He explained that this causes pain in the poll/neck. It has not been a "miracle cure" (only feed suplement manufacturers offer those, ) It has been an up hill struggle but getting the teeth done has been the turning point .

Wow! That is quite scary that something like that could be ''missed" by a good EDT! Hopefully the one we use would see that, he has been doing his teeth for years now (and good chance since he was backed at breeders) and afaik is one of the top ones in Ireland, travels far and wide and does a lot of the big racing yards here as well.
I will Definitely ask him about the alignment of his jaw, thank you

 

[Foxford]

My horse used to evade at the jaw but he is much, much better since I put him in a Micklem. Might be worth a try!

 

[ihatework]

I agree a good EDT and a change of noseband would be worth considering.

What no one else has said though is often symptoms in the mouth/hand are often a reflection of what is happening behind the saddle. Once the horse is straighter and consistently working through the contact issues magically improve. I speak from experience and it doesn't usually happen overnight for mere mortals like me!

 

[Foxford]

Totally agree ihatework... My horse only started the evasion after a hoof injury on his near hind. Vet and farrier cleared him for work but he was trying to tell me he was still uncomfortable!

 

[wench]

Have you thought about trying a Bitless bridle?

I purchased a light rider Bitless noseband (attaches to existing bridle) when I wasn't sure where to go next with my horse.

It worked a treat and helped my horse to relax no end. It wasn't very expensive either. I don't ride in it very much anymore as my horse is going the way it should be bitted, but the Bitless helped to achive this!