Blood test result - can anyone shed further light on this..(also in vet section)

squiz22

squiz22

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Hi All,

I posted this in vet section but it relates to my eventer - wondered if anyone in here can help..

I've got a horse that has just seen 'off' since the end of the event season. He's had one thing after another with the most recent being an abscess on this throat which gave us all a strangles panic. Its cleared up nicely but he's still not right.

I had a blood test done and most of it came back fine but one element of it showed that there was inflammation internally. His vital organs have been checked so they are fine. My vet is awesome and very good at explaining things but he's also very Scottish and sometimes I find it hard to catch everything he's saying (especially on the car phone).

Winnie has been doing a bit of a weird gag/gulp so before the bloods I flagged this up and now the vet is suggesting we scope him to check his respiratory system is ok. It could be a simple objection to his hay - which is being soaked.

Has anyone else had this before? Can anyone explain this further to me please? If its inflammation then could it be anything that's inflamed..?? He's got an asymmetric pelvis which sometimes gives him a bit of trouble but he's regularly seen by the chiro. He's also recently thrown a splint but its tiny and hard and he's sound. Any info would be much appreciated! Vet is on leave until Tuesday so trying to get a bit of background..



Thanks xx
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Firstly what tests did you have done to check its not strangles? What exams did the vet do to check internally? And what where the actual blood test results?

My 3yr old is currently at Liphook under going chest and abdomen xrays and ultrasounds along with saline swabs of his lungs/trachea and gutteral pouches. He's been poorly for nearly 6 wks now with a fluctuating temp between 38 and 43 at its highest but in himself has seemed fine. His blood tests showed a 13.9 white cell count when it should be nearer 3.9. He also had a throat abcess. He had 2 negative swabs bk for strangles, but a positive blood test.

Now at Liphook after further investigation its been found that he does have strangles and has internal abcesses remaining in his gutteral pouch. He is having the other tests done today but the vet thinks he has abcesses elswhere in his body too.

I think I've waffled on a bit but would be interesting to know what tests you've had done etc?
 
Thats interesting. I am sorry to hear it though - I feel your frustrations.

Winnie has just been 'not quite right' since the end of the event season with one thing after another. The most recent issue was this abscess on the throat. He came in with a lump under his left cheek bone and lots of bite marks on his face so at first i thought he'd be playing over the fence which he does and got a whack. I made sure it was clean etc and gave him an anti inflammatory and put him to bed. The next morning (last monday) it didn't look much different so I just thought I'd give it a few more hours and if not right I'd give the vet a call. With all the bite marks round him I thought it seemed like a war wound. Anyway, that night I got down the yard and his entire throat was swollen and blood and puss were dripping out.. called the vat and had him straight out who said he thought it was strangles. Win was ok in himself, admittedly a bit poor but then his face was really swollen and dripping pus so its expected. He didn't have a fever, with a temp at 38 (again its expected to be a bit high given the circumstance) and he def had an appetite.

So the vet took a swab. He also took a blood test from a new young horse (coincidentally the one he'd been playing with) and was pretty convinced we had a case of strangles. The other horses bloods came back fine, winnies swab also came back fine and the lab still has it because they are trying to culture it further.

I injected him with 20mls penicillin every 12 hours and took his temp which was around 36/37 and he perked up no end. I washed the abscess twice a day with hot salty water and its healed beautifully. He's not been right for a while and I am therefore convinced that theres something underlying which is why I am investigating this further. My vet took bloods on Tuesday this week (the abscess was the week before) and has called to say they showed signs on inflammation.. now he's a fab vet but he's very Scottish and I missed a bit of the info i think. I have called the vet back to have someone else go through them with me. I have called them so much I think they must think I am a neurotic annoying owner!

Winnie is a 6yo 17hh warmblood. He evented last season and was awesome. He started late in the year after a bit of an unknown soreness behind resulting from a massive flip out in his stable - would you believe the livery yard forgot to feed or hay him one evening. I moved him from the yard but he never got turn out and they were not knowledgeable enough to look after competition horses and winnie was stressed.. someone has also suggested he may have had low grade ulcers from then and they've got worse..??

Sorry this is so long.. I am seriously confused whilst this is all subtle (abscess aside) I know him well enough to know when he's not right and I have to get to the bottom of it.
 
Squizz - swabs can come back negative even if the horse has strangles, as the blood test has come back with inflammation I would ask for a gutteral scope to be done, this is the only way you will get an answer for definite. My youngster has carried on eating the whole way through his case and has been really perky apart from 2 days right at the begining when he was very depressed. If you have abcesses bursting externally like that then a pcr test needs to be done on the fluid from the abcess - you must check the vet is doing a pcr and not just a normal test, the pcr has a 90percent chance of picking up the strep bacteria whereas normal test is only 60.
 
Its a way of testing the swab they do, ask your vet if they have done a pcr or not and if they haven't ask them to come back and take one. But then if you are having him scoped on Tuesday it won't make much difference now. Has your vet said to quarantine? As I really would if you are on a yard with other peoples horses? Get a dip tray for boots etc and only use one set of everything on your horse. Make sure whoever handles him disinfects themselves before touching any other hoses. The scoping is quite invasive but its the best thing to do. We had 6 horses with slighty high temperatures on the yard, all where swabbed and all came back negative then 2 weeks later we had a full blown strangles out break. Luckily I'd insisted on keeping my 3yo in quarantine.
 
PCR is a lab method used to identify fragments of protein/ DNA so usually used to look for bugs causing infection (including strangles). Blood tests indicate inflammation through a rise in inflammatory markers (proteins involved in causing inflammation or as a result of inflammation). They really aren't very specific at all so could indicate inflammation pretty much anywhere (so maybe the splint or as a result of the abcess). I hope you find an answer soon :)
ETA: I have to admitt I'd be thinking about isolation to be on the safe side - but I am overly cautious with anything respiratory based.
 
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The horse won't necesssarily have passed on the bacteria - its passed in the mucas and from leaking abcesses. Strangles isn't airborn but it can be passed on humans, the main source is in water troughs and on tools etc. Re-quarentine your horse until tuesday for peace of mind and get all the other horses temperatures on the yard taken once a day and monitor them carefully. I don't really come on here much but inbox me if you've got any questions, I've been knee deep in strangles stuff for the last 6wks, think I know more than my vet now, lol!! Good luck with it all
 
Amymay- the blood test only shows they've been exposed to the bacteria not that he had strangles. We are on the edge of the forest and vet said nearly all the horses on our yard would have a positive blood test for strangles it dosent mean they have the virus.
 
Tempi said:
Amymay- the blood test only shows they've been exposed to the bacteria not that he had strangles. We are on the edge of the forest and vet said nearly all the horses on our yard would have a positive blood test for strangles it dosent mean they have the virus.
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Ah got ya.
 
I thought strangles was airborn?? shows how much I know lol.

Hope you get everything sorted. I can imagine it being very frustrating for you. Sending lots of healing vibes your way :)
 
Well strangles now it looks like, will find out more once I hear bk from Liphook today as to how his xrays/ultra sound went - they think it could be ******* strangles though (where they get internal abcesses) - hopefully its not. He's been so good with everything bless him x
 
M+O - it can be passed if a horse with strangles coughs, then it goes through the air (if you see what I mean) but its not actually an airborn virus as such. Its more likely passed on people (touching an infected horse then a non infected horse) or from sharing troughs, impliments, bedding, hay etc
 
Tempi said:
Well strangles now it looks like, will find out more once I hear bk from Liphook today as to how his xrays/ultra sound went - they think it could be ******* strangles though (where they get internal abcesses) - hopefully its not. He's been so good with everything bless him x
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Don't have anything to add that hasn't been said, but wanted to wish you luck with your horse - really hope it isn't ******* strangles. My 3yo has strangles atm too, but luckily doesn't seem too badly affected.
 
W are on the homeward noun stretch of strangles too. Lots of it about unfortunately.

Luckily none have been very sick, an we contained within 24 hours. That said, the worst is yet to come for us with the impact to the business. Threads like the one in NL about people never going to a yard that had had strangles ever again aren't making us hopeful!!!

I digress. Point is it sounds to me too as if it is. 38 is high enOugh to be a strangles temp. Hope it's not, hope you get to the bottom of it and all is well soon.
 
Nocturnal - thank you, am praying it isn't too. Its his blood results that have made the vets think that, luckily he's insured (my only horse that is!) So my insurance company have been great in paying out quickly and paying Liphook direct.
 
Thank you for all your healing vibes!!

Winnie was quarantined for 5 days when the vet came back with the all clear from his bloods, the other horses bloods and his bacterial swab. Since then he's been turned out upon advice from the vet.

I am a responsible owner and I have him on assisted DIY from for the 5 days I did him solely and had virkon buckets etc outside his stable, used overalls, washed my hands had no contact with other horses. He's in a stable on the end anyway because he prefers a room with a view so he was kept away from the others.

If the vet is saying he's fine and he's had bloods and swabs surely he is ok? Now I am confused and I have to be careful because if I quarantine him again the yard is going to go back into panic mode - which it did a week ago. I thought his symptoms seem more consistent with some kind of gutterall pouch infection or something else bacterial but not strangles but I'm not a vet so followed orders.

I'm supposed to have a call shortly about the blood results so perhaps I better bring this up.
 
Tempi said:
Well strangles now it looks like, will find out more once I hear bk from Liphook today as to how his xrays/ultra sound went - they think it could be ******* strangles though (where they get internal abcesses) - hopefully its not. He's been so good with everything bless him x
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I hope you get some answers. That strain with the internal ulcers certainly worried me when I started researching all this over the last 2 weeks. At least shes at Liphook and getting the best possible care.

Winnie is insured and they have been very good with him.. Its a blooming god send at a time like this.
 
I don't know if this is helpful or not, but my horse, who has had ulcers (badly), does a funny gulp when he is tense/stressed - it started when he had the ulcers and is now habit I think. It's not full on windsucking, and you actually don't notice it unless you are a)stood right next to him and b)I point it out, as it is very quiet, sort of an amplified swallow.
 
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