Bloody Yard - additional charges for clinic - rant

S

Scottish_Miss

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 June 2006
Messages
671
Location
Fife, Scotland
Visit site
Having a **** week in terms of the yard and lack of communication but that is another drama!
However thay banned some time ago outside instructors from coming in and teaching clints. This was due to the fact they have an instructor and wanted to promote thier use - which I can fully understand and see. However it really anoyed everyone as several people feel that they are not the same quality of teaching as we can get elsewhere plus its an individual thing you may not always click, also the yard instructor does not compete or do much dressage where the external person is classically trained in this.

Ok so we got a compromise where the yard arranged clinics with external people and started of fine, then they got fed up and pushed the organisation on to several of us - not a problem. Latest is now each livery is to be charged an addition £5 by yard for a clinic!!!! On top of the £30 or £25 depepending on that instructor!!!!! This we all feel has now gone agin too far and he is looking to make easy money - we are of the opinion that we are so angry and do our best to support the yard in other ways - enter events/little shows which we also run for them! and spen our money in the tack shop when we could go elsewhere for cheaper that he is really annoyed most of to the point we will not continue to support any thing - hence no one wins.

Its a ridiculous situation we feel he is trying to impose - better a yard full of content supporting in other ways liverys than a half empty yard because they cannot get the traiing they want and go elsewhere.
We already pay for school use in our livery costs - why pay again!!!!!!!


thoughts please and any suggestions really welcomed.

thanks
 
Hhmmm... I think that is a bit much and so perhaps having a constructive chat with the owner or manager is in order to let him know that the feeling in the yard is that this is too much? We don't charge for instructors coming in because, as you say, you are already paying in your livery.
 
at our yard, we have to pay extra every time we use the school (literally £7 per half hour in the indoor, each) , and on top of this have to pay extra when we want to bring in an outside instructor. I agree, it does get a bit ridiculous, as well as the fact our schools are regularly hired to outside horse owners (non liveries) as they pay higher rates for the school usage so we can't ride!!

I think the most you can do is explain to the YO you think it's unfair, and ask them to change this rule. Maybe you can come to a compromise? Sorry for being so unhelpful :L I was starting to wonder whether it was only at our yard that we felt treatment like this wasn't fair :/
 
I think its fair to charge a surcharge for the exclusive use of the school, and also require evidence of outside instructors insurance. But I cannot believe that a yard would ban outside instructors from coming in altogether, and its inappropriate to charge another surcharge to liveries for those lessons. Surely if the in house instruction is good enough it should stand on its merits?!

in summary, anything over and above charge for hogging the school is anti competitive and unfair.
 
I organise clinics and we normally pay a daily rate for the exclusive use of the school. We also have visiting riders and horses about so there is a bit of disruption. I'm assuming not everyone on livery would be going to the clinic? If the clinic was being attended by all the liveries at your yard, and no external clients, then I think it's unfair to charge. If not, then it's normal and reasonable.
I would never stay somewhere that imposed their instructors on me, that's for sure.
 
Sorry i disagree, i think that is fair enough to charge extra for the clinics and to have a ban on outside instructors. (depending on what your livery is) A yard is a business, when it is run with qualified BHS staff they should be the instructors. I have worked at many yards that have also had a ban on outside instructors as the yard managers have been BHS I, if any livery wanted to use someone else than they would have to travel to the other instructors yard. If you dont like the instructor at the yard i would say go to a yard where you do.
 
I can't believe some yard owners to be honest! On our yard anyone can use the school at any time, with any instructor - if you want exclusive use of the school, we have a diary in the tack room and you write your name in and the time you want to use it. There are no charges for doing that etc. To be honest though not many people use the school, so it works fine. I have been at yards where there are 20+ people wanting to use the school, and this system has still worked ok though. Why YO's want to charge for people bringing in instructors is beyond me, especially yards that have multiple schools. I can maybe understand it on big yards with lots of horses and people wanting to use the arena at the same time, but surely most people are adults/adult-minded and can work out arrangements by talking, without the YO's getting involved.

I think if I were ever at a yard where the YO wanted me to pay them for having an instructor, I would move pretty sharpish.
 
I wouldn't go to a yard that imposed their instructor on me. I like to be able to choose my instructor depending upon what sort of help I need. The yard's instructor might be fab for dressage but have little jumping experience for example.

Different people have different learning styles and preferences too which can mean that one instructor works better for them than another which is nothing to do with the quality of the instructor. We have one instructor at our yard who is really good and highly qualified but my husband just can't get on with her style of teaching, she confuses him, so he would prefer to have lessons with someone else. Other people love her and hate the instructor he uses.

I have no problem with paying for exclusive use of the school but do not think that you should have to pay to use the school if you are happy to share.
 
I would vote with my feet - you are the customer here who is aying for use of services for your own leisure. Your choice of instructor is based on what you want and need for you and your horse - not all instructors are the same. As long as they have suitable insurance and you have an area to work they should support you.

Plus are they at the standard you want? - my instructor is BHSSM not really helpful to change that to work with a yard based AI level.

Have you other yards in the area you can move to with a more customer friendly approach.
 
It is a thorny subject but on balance why should a freelance instructor get free use of premises which will have cost a lot of money to put in and maintain. Livery yards can be a bottomless pit to throw money into for very liitle reward so to then be expected to provide a free service to outside intructors is rubbing salt in the wound.
 
I have heard that some yards ban outside instructors due to insurance issues. You could check up if this is why. I think its something to do with the YO being liable if a person or horse is injured due to something the instructor did (or didnt) do and the outside instructor not having adequate insurance.
 
maestro said:
It is a thorny subject but on balance why should a freelance instructor get free use of premises which will have cost a lot of money to put in and maintain. Livery yards can be a bottomless pit to throw money into for very liitle reward so to then be expected to provide a free service to outside intructors is rubbing salt in the wound.
Click to expand...

Yes but its NOT the instructor they are providing the service for - they have liveries there who pay their money to be able to use the facilities. If they were using the school without someone standing there yelling at them, they would not be charged. The livery chooses to bring in an instructor, at their cost, for a lesson, and then the YO wants to be cut in too?? What if their friend came and gave them in informal lesson without taking payment - would they also be charged by the YO?

I can understand your point, but if the livery has paid their money to be able to use the facilities, and they are the one wanting an instructor to help, that is not anything to do with the YO. If the instructor was teaching a pupil that was not on the yard however, then the YO is within their right to charge the pupil/instructor a hire charge.
 
zoeshiloh said:
Yes but its NOT the instructor they are providing the service for - they have liveries there who pay their money to be able to use the facilities. If they were using the school without someone standing there yelling at them, they would not be charged. The livery chooses to bring in an instructor, at their cost, for a lesson, and then the YO wants to be cut in too?? What if their friend came and gave them in informal lesson without taking payment - would they also be charged by the YO?

I can understand your point, but if the livery has paid their money to be able to use the facilities, and they are the one wanting an instructor to help, that is not anything to do with the YO. If the instructor was teaching a pupil that was not on the yard however, then the YO is within their right to charge the pupil/instructor a hire charge.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more!
 
But the instuctor is making money off a facility without any overheads, its like a freelance hairdresser going and using a shop without any costs. Im not saying the livery cannot use the school but that the instructor should have to hire the school to teach in it. That in itself would raise the insurance on the school why should the YO pay for that.
 
"A yard is a business, when it is run with qualified BHS staff they should be the instructors."
Blimey, that's madness. Just because someone has a BHS qualification it doesn't mean that they are a good instructor. Why on earth should a livery have that imposed on them? My instructor is a classical rider, who has trained with some of the greats including Nuno Olivera. Your average BHS instructor isn't going to teach me what I want to learn.
To go back a step, the liveries at a yard are already paying for the benefit of the use of the school, so I don't think they should have to pay extra if they bring in an outside trainer. This is about more than just riding, some people get help in with handling for example, or (wash my mouth out with soap) they might be Parelli students. A BHS instructor isn't a lot of use to them.
However, if some of the liveries want to book up the school for a whole day, I think that is a bit different. Particularly if they are brining in outside RIDERS to join them.
 
maestro said:
It is a thorny subject but on balance why should a freelance instructor get free use of premises which will have cost a lot of money to put in and maintain. Livery yards can be a bottomless pit to throw money into for very liitle reward so to then be expected to provide a free service to outside intructors is rubbing salt in the wound.
Click to expand...

Ditto this. I know liveries pay for the use of facilities as part of their livery but it really doesn't go a long way when an arena needs resurfacing for instance. On the other hand, I wouldn't like to be told what instuctor I could use if I was paying extra on top of my livery to bring a freelancer in, especially if I had moved to a yard that allowed me to do so and then changed the rules. Maybe a group meeting would be the best way forward? I'm sure the YO doesn't want to lose good liveries and there may be a solution that keep everyone happy. If not, move!
 
i am a freelance instructor.one of the yards i go to i run a monthly sj clinic.i pay an hourly rate for the hire of the school and am quite happy to.i earn and the yard earns.cant see a prop if you want your own outside instructor for them to pay to use the facilities provided
 
Well, you organise the clinic for a start, so that's one reason why you might pay a hire charge. I too pay a hire charge when I organise a clinic at yards. Do you have outside riders coming in? If so then you should pay a hire charge. If it's only riders from that yard then it's different, as I think most are saying on this thread.
 
Not entirely sure where I stand on this issue, but as for solving it, if the entire yard is unhappy, then a group meeting where you all calmly express your opinions with the YO is probably going to be the best solution. You may not get the result you want but at least you've tried.

If it's too difficult to get everyone in the one place at the one time, then a formal typed up letter signed by all liveries might be the best way to go.

The only problem could be that people on the yard may end up feeling forced to agree, when they're not overly bothered about it.
 
maestro said:
But the instuctor is making money off a facility without any overheads, its like a freelance hairdresser going and using a shop without any costs. Im not saying the livery cannot use the school but that the instructor should have to hire the school to teach in it. That in itself would raise the insurance on the school why should the YO pay for that.
Click to expand...

The use of the facillities is paid for by the client as part of their livery bill. If their livery gives them free use of the school why shouldn't they bring in an instructor to help them. If the livery bill isn't covering the up-keep of the school then that should be increased or they should add a charge for all use of the school irrespective of whether there is an instructor or not.

If your freelance hairdresser does your hair in the kitchen of your house does your landlord charge them rent? No you are already paying rent for the kitchen and it is up to you what you do inside it.
 
I was always under the impression that the cost of livery was directly influenced by the facilities provided by a yard... so your livery should be reflected by the standard of facilities provided - including all maintenance costs.

As for outside instructors being charged to teach at the yard, I don't think this is on. As for clinics, I think this is slightly different - moreso if it involves participants from outside the yard (who should be charged for the use of the school as well as the instructor).
 
Agree with CBFan, some of the liveries ive been to see just have 0 business sense. I think charging for a clinic is fine but id not agree to them banning outside instructors especially if they cannot provide the level of training required.
 
Another thought. I can pay £5 to go and use an arena near me for an hour. So maybe it would be fair to charge visiting riders if the clinic doesn't last all day? As a compromise?
 
maestro said:
But the instuctor is making money off a facility without any overheads, its like a freelance hairdresser going and using a shop without any costs. Im not saying the livery cannot use the school but that the instructor should have to hire the school to teach in it. That in itself would raise the insurance on the school why should the YO pay for that.
Click to expand...
Who do you think will ultimately pay for the school hire- the client.
Don't know a RI up here that would hire school and pay for it themselves it would be left to client to pay for that on top of lesson or they would just add charge onto cost of lesson either way they wouldn't be paying it.
If outsiders coming to clinic then yes charge them if just liveries then no don't think they should pay any extra.
 
Is that a question for me Brandy? As it happens, none of the liveries at the venues I use actually ride on the clinics, so it's not complicated, I just pay a hire charge. I'm very lucky because it's only about £50 a day. I did hire Eaglesfield in Kent once, years back, and that was about £300 a day!!! So, never again. However, that price reflected the fact that they couldn't teach lessons using their instructors when we were using the place.
What I was suggesting - if OP has external people coming to her clinics - is that maybe as a compromise the resident liveries should be able to use the arena, and maybe the visiting riders could pay a small daily rate.
However, OP hasn't been back to the thread yet, so we don't actually know a few things:
Do all the liveries on her yard attend the clinics? If not, then the participants are preventing other liveries using the arena for the day, which may or may not be a problem.
Does the fact that she is holding clinics represent a loss of income to the YO? Does it mean that their BHS instructor can't make money by teaching on that day?
Do other riders visit to take part in the clinics?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top