Blue or fawn Doberman?

emma21

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29 September 2010
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Does anyone know any or much about them?
I met one today and it was stunning and the owner said he'd had black ones all his life and got the usual people cross the road from the scary dogs... Got a blue one and everyone strokes it and asks about it?
 

MurphysMinder

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Don't know much about them, the fawns are I think known as Isabella dobes. Pretty sure it is a recessive gene possibly the same that produces blue GSDs. It used to be undesirable in shepherds and breeders were horrified if they produced one, now some actually deliberately do so but that is another story. I don't know if it is considered a fault in dobes, don't think I ever saw any at shows years ago but it may have changed now. Like all colours produced from a limited gene pool I would be concerned they may have more health problems than standard colours, but could be totally wrong on that.
 

amy_b

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15 October 2010
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I presume these are the equivalent of palomino/buckskin horses? and the white ones are equivalent to cremello/perlino?!
personally if I were to get a dobe I would want one of the black/brown ones!! the blue ones look like they'v been on a hot wash!
 

s4sugar

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I've owned all four recognised Dobermann colours - black, brown, blue & fawn (all & tan/rust)
My first brown was often not perceived as a Dobe unless I had a black alongside.

The blue is a dilution of black, fawn is the same gene on brown and these are not the same as white which is a different and not approved mutation.

The dilutes can have a form of alopecia which is also seen in other breeds with similar dilutes.
Whites have multiple health problems which is the main reason none of the breed clubs accept them.
 

amy_b

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did you ever breed them?
does anybody know if a blue/fawn bred with a blue/fawn gives a few white puppies?

my chain of thought being that a palomino is a chestnut with one copy of the dilution gene, a palomino bred with a palomino may produce a cremello if both parent pass on the dilution gene...I wonder if this is the same thing?!
 

s4sugar

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I did breed them and got all four colours in one litter (actually from a black male & brown bitch) The genes are separate and you don't get white puppies from mating blues & fawns (unless both carry the recessive white gene)

Blue/fawn is not like the cream gene in horses in fact it is more like chestnut in that it is recessive and you have non-chestnuts, chestnut carriers that don't show chestnut and chestnuts.
I never mated two dilutes as I chose the best option rather than just breeding for colour.

White is entirely separate - a later mutation and comes with a lot of problems - poor eyesight for a start.
 

amy_b

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oh so not the same thing at all then! I presume that you are just as likely to get a white one whichever colours you breed together then? depending on whether the parents are carriers. :)
 

s4sugar

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The white ones all trace back to one bitch.
In the USA any registrations of puppies that may carry the gene are marked - I think with an Z.

The gene is not present in UK or European lines.

The breeding of whites is discouraged - http://www.gilesdoberman.com/opwhiteout.htm

Like a lot of "rare" colours you get puppy farmers juming on the bandwagon.

I have met a few white Dobes in the USA - all had problems and the white they exhibit is not the same as in many other breeds that come in white.
Imagine not being able to take your dog out during daylight.
 

Dobiegirl

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W*ite Dobes definately *ave *ealt* problems as well as be*avioural and t*e blues and fawns may *ave aller*ies.

T*en in America t*ey ave t*e Warlock Dobes w*ic* are extra lar*e and t*e added problems to t*eir joints etc.
 
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