Body Cage Back Protectors and Rotational Falls

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They told me that it would have cost a lot more to make them out of carbon fibre from the start. shame, because i bet i'm not alone in worrying about the weight. i found it comfy and not restrictive at all, fwiw. i think they retail at about £300, is that right? since a good pair of boots costs more than that, i don't think it's expensive tbh!
in fact, reading all these posts i suppose i sound a bit mental, worrying more about the horse having to carry an extra half a stone for 6 minutes or so, than about myself getting crushed....
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Those things are kinda what I'm getting at - in the nicest possible way of course
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I think they're a shade under £300, but I bet they don't deteriorate in the way normal ones and probably therefore don't need replacing as often (assuming you don't get landed on!). I spent £230 on two hats within 4 months because I bought a new one then fell on it - when you look at it that way....how many of us would compromise on hat safety XC if we were given the choice of somehting better?
 
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Oddly enough though none of the bp's on the market have to undergo any form of crush test as part of the BETA checklist
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Good news though if you are thinking of getting one is the RDA are planning to make it in a wider range of sizes and are also considering carbon fibre models so the horses aren't carrying un-necessary extra weight.

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no normal back protector would offer any crush-protection at all, i can fold my (level 3, very good) Rodney Powell back protector in half, no way would it protect me at all from a falling horse.

i really hope RDA does bring out a lightweight carbon fibre version, i'll be impressed if they do though, it'll cost a lot to do. i'll be first in line, as i said!

i feel really sorry for the designers, if they really have lost a 6-figure sum. that's terrible.

oops, edited to make quoted bit clearer!
 
Nando - I quite agree - they probably saved the girl at SpringHill, and TBH I've never understood why they weren't more popular. As I said, the only reaosn I don't have one is that I never found one which fitted me, otherwise I'd be in the minority of people who ride in one. If the RDA want to measure me for size, then brilliant!!
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There are some quite good reasons why these aren't popular with the medics..

*NB. this is quite technical/nerdy and also quite graphic as I'm a medic and therefore not unduly squeamish*

I did an undergrad project on horse riding accidents and what actually kills people in rotational falls is not usually head/spinal damage. It is blunt chest trauma - similar to car accidents, the force applied to the chest is so great that the aorta ruptures and the person bleeds to death within 30 seconds. There's almost nothing that can be done under those circumstances and early paramedic invention rarely saves them. That is what these body-cage protectors are designed to stop and they are by all accounts effective.

However the vast majority of falls are not rotational. The real medical concerns are spinal injuries and fractures and the risk of paralysis. Race jockeys are obliged to undergo training courses in 'how to fall' and they have to keep themselves pretty fit so as to fall 'correctly'. The data from my project showed that the risk of injury after a fall was increased if the person was unfit or overweight. Under these conditions, adding an extra 2kg of rigid body armour which substantially hinders your ability to roll and fall properly is a bad idea. Race jockeys usually only wear Level 1 protectors so as to allow them to roll effectively.

In the event of a spinal injury, the spine MUST be immobilised immediately to prevent any movement of bone which might damage the spinal cord. A body protector that has to be taken to pieces with an Allan key and cannot be cut off with a pair of scissors will by definition involve moving the spine - ergo increased risk of paralysis. The other risk is that the head will loll back in a hyperextended position when the body protector is worn lying down. This would also increase the risk of spinal injury as the head would need to be moved in order to support the airways if the patient is unconscious.

That's a lot of info - I did hope to get a paper published with my results but alas the BMJ doesn't really care!!
 
Glad to hear that they are still going to be made, I misunderstood the post about the patent being handed over. Thanks Kerilli - I'll have a look at them on the website, although I have a good idea a standard one wouldn't fit as my daughter is not very tall and is also quite slight and always has problems with things being too big or too long for her. I'm just becoming more and more paranoid about falls these days - could hardly bear to watch those mushrooms! Began to wonder if the whole eventing game has become too dangerous.
 
Thats a good point re hats. I got a new one end of june, fell on my head at Brightling and so replaced it within a month without thinking twice....

I did think one thing though following that article about them not selling enough. perhaps how few people knew details about them on here shows something lacking in the advertising? We all knew off them but not lots of details. Or maybe its because sc says and they didnt' become fashionable with the pros
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Kit279 that is really interesting - but did your research look at HOW people get spinal injuries? Do they get them because they hit the fence, say, or because of the way they land, or because the horse stands on them or lands on them (non-rotationally) or whatever?

What I'm trying to say is that it's no good saying that the body cage will make this worse because of the immobilisation problem, if in actual fact the majority of people who end up with spinal injuries do so because the horse stands on them or they are thrown into the fence - both of which the BC would provide protection against.
 
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Kit279 - now I'm unsure!! Maybe I should just buy her a dressage horse!!

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....or a rocking horse....with guards to stop her trapping her fingers if anyone else is on it...
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Mothers are allowed to worry!! In fact it's part of the job description.

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I'm only joking - you do realise if you buy her a dressage horse she will insist on being allowed to ride without a hat, don't you?
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I rode around Bramham CCI*** in the roll cage and I have to say it was brilliant. I have nothing bad to say about it.

With regards to weight training, I galloped my horse with racing weights on and I also galloped in it a few times. I also made an effort to keep my weight down, but only by about 1/2 a stone.

I guess it is just a case of "each to his own" and maybe some people don't like them.

My own attitude is that a fatal rotational fall can happen to anyone, regardless of how good you are as a rider or how good your horse is. So if there is product that might save you from death it is worth wearing. Like I say that is a personal opinion and i understand others may have different views on the issue.

If anyone wants to know anything specific about riding/competing in it I can try and help in some way from my own experiences.
 
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Mothers are allowed to worry!! In fact it's part of the job description.

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My mum won't watch xc/walk course and can barely cope with sj, i'm in my mid 20's and i think she has got worse over the years!! So sounds like you're doing well!!
 
My mother does worry - I bark at her not too though - after all shes done things in life I wont dream of for years - like getting married and having children!!!!
Its not the horse, or my albility she worries about but the "it can and does happen to anyone" factor - My theory - lightening or a London bus is more likely to kill me...
 
Thanks Autumnrose - My daughter is in her twenties also and like your mum I think I'm getting worse too as I get older.
TrainrobberI used to fly round xc myself but watching her do it is a whole different matter!!
 
Interesting that one of the eventers that's quoted in H&H today is Kitty Boggis who said that as a smaller rider (she is pretty tiny) she didn't want the extra weight on her and her horses.

If they were made of carbon fibre I think more people would be inclined to buy. How many of us (myself included) have chosen hats that are lightweight & have paid more for the priviledge?

Also think that there are still quite a few of those who event that only ever wear their BP because they HAVE TO to go xc - they don't wear it hunting for example. They're not the most cheapest thing to buy as it is, let alone paying what almost £300 for one. For the average eventer who does it as their hobby and competes once, poss twice a month throughout the season - it's a lot of money. But like everyone has said, your own life is priceless.
 
My daughter events and I have to say that when I first heard about this new cage back protector I thought it was a very good idea. My daughter is at intro level at the moment with a young horse, however if she does progress up the levels then I would invest in one of these for her (even though she's not very keen on them). I have read the article in the H&H today and my opinion hasn't changed. I hope the cage design is improved and redesigned/resized to take into account any problems at the moment, because as a mum it would make me feel a bit better everytime she goes off XC.
 
Firstly to introduce myself - I am (until next week!) the MD of Bodycage Ltd. - Alasdair Kirk.

A big thank you to the many emails / phone calls of support we have already received today regarding the product - I was not aware of how many people use it so regularly, nor how many feel that it really offers them the protection they desire, we have had great support and feedback from riders since we started work on this with the original idea back in 1999 and the company starting in 2001.

Horse and Hound have written an interesting article today - and I won't get sidetracked into any of the whys and wherefores - Bodycage made a commercial decision earlier this year to stop involvement in the R&D work they were doing - we are enormously pleased that the product has saved lives - there is great satisfaction in knowing that people are walking around today who might not otherwise have been, equally we are very sad that injuries continue. However the company has been a commercial business and there are times to make certain decisions, so we are delighted that the RDA share our passion for safety and concern for riders, and that they were able to be such a good home for the licence / patent. This means that they now control the ownership etc. of the product and we look forward to watching what may happen - it is in good hands.

In the meanwhile - some thoughts in response to comments in this thread...

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The EXO has an allen key built into it each side, so you can always get to one as a medic - medics do not need to carry their own! - with full instructions and green crosses on each side for easy guidance.

You don't need an allen key to get out of the EXO - the clips unclip - but the allen keys are there to allow a medic to remove parts of the EXO and leave the rest in place to help support spine etc. It is designed as a benefit, rather than a way around an issue...

Even in an event in 2005 when a rider had a 500kg horse land on her from a metre up in the air, there was no visible damage to the EXO and it could easily be unclipped and removed as normal.

BE ask every rider to notify when riding in an EXO - however I assume that there must be some other reason as the EXO carries two allen keys with it, so not for that...

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regarding ownership and patents etc. - yup - very broad patent and nice and securely patented... but no longer owned commercially - owned by the Riding for the Disabled, though licensed to Woof Wear. The difficulty with having lots of companies making them is the cost needing to be invested in their manufacture - there is not a big enough commercial market for this to be viable for all manufacturers... And to be honest I don't see an issue in one company running with safety gear - in other industries such as F1 motorsport etc. there will be some gear which only one company makes - as long as the price is fair, not a problem - having a commercial involvement feeds more money back into R&D - our spend over the time we developed this was primarily R&D spend, and while a bit under what was reported by H&H (not much though!) was considerably more than would have occurred had it not been a commercial approach...

if this had not been commercial - it would not have happened - for some people that would have been tragic...

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They weigh four pounds more than a normal body protector, but due to the way in which they are constructed (using a 'rucksack style' of support system), that extra weight is not particularly noticeable in actual riding...

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the concern in H&H about wiplash is the first time this has been raised as an issue to me - I have spoken with a very large number of medics regarding this and it has not been raised with me before, that is not to say that it may not be an issue, merely that it could need exploring, but there may also be a choice to make - wiplash v crushing... in development the concept was passed by one of the world's leading spinal surgeons and this was not raised as an issue...

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in response to kit279: a correction if I may - they are designed to help in the event of spinal injury - not hinder.
agree that the major issue is trauma - the big issue is the speed of the accident. As an illustration if I asked you to hold 1 kg in your hand, you could do so continuously (if fit!) for an hour, yet couldn't hold 60 kg for a minute / 3600kg for a second - i.e.take the same forces and reduce the time increases the force per second on the body - this kills. The Exo was designed from the outset to: take force into the ground, slowing down the accident, then (if necessary and not so far) disintegrate gracefully (it was tested to distruction at SATRA with far higher forces) to take energy into destroying the cage, again slowing down the accident / impact, then finally leaving what is left of the impact for the ribs to deal with - they are very capable... so it is about stretching the impact over a longer period and lessinging the degree of force... The product went through a lot of detailed study by medics, including the top medics in the fields of injuries from horses / spinal work / equestrian sport etc. As mentioned above, in the event of an accident they are designed like a meccano set so that you can unbolt the top and use the bottom section as a spinal board...

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In testing by the medics at Burghley Horse Trials, there was no issue in removing parts of the jacket / using in conjunction with a spinal board / etc. even though they liked the idea before testing they were impressed with how they could work with it.

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Regarding PROs wearing them - a number have tried them on, and I have been known to jump on the stomachs of some quite famous people
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however as one (very famous!) rider said - they are paid to win, not to avoid injury, and while BE allow choice, every pound will count, so if all wore them they would happily wear them, if not compulsory, none will be willing to put themselves ata weight disadvantage - at the top level 4lbs can make a difference. At the end of the day - it will not happen unless someone makes it happen...

Definitely not lack of support...

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Hopefully this clarifies one or two questions above - I will try to monitor this thread for a few days - so if you have other questions do ask - or feel free to email us / phone us, all our details are on our website and we are always happy to talk... however for future decisions / plans etc. no longer us - but the RDA - it couldn't be in better hands.

regards

Alasdair Kirk
Managing Director
BodyCage
 
Thanks for replying to this Alasdair - nice of you take the time and trouble especially given the circumstances. As for BE requiring you to tell them you are wearing one - it is definitely about the allen keys - the lists at events have in some cases stated this. Whether it was originally about that or not I don't know, but that's what it has transmuted into! I think it stems from them being worried the paramedics won't know where to look for the allen keys/won't be able to release them. I know all TAs and paramedics have to have a separate one now and not rely on the ones in the body cage.

Interesting that for the pros it comes down to weight (and in some cases vanity
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the person I was referring to is definitely considered to be a top pro). I wonder if it makes that much difference - I can't see Mary King weighing nearly as much as some of the men on the circuit, so would it make any difference to her from that point of view? And I think it's a bit of a short-sighted statement to say you are paid to win not to avoid injury - after all, if you are off for months through injury, you certainly aren't winning, or in fact doing your job at all...there aren't many professions where you'd get away with saying that H&S was less important than doing the job - in my job, we are told to walk off the job if we feel some aspect of H&S needs improving. Just a thought, no real answers or questions, just general bewilderment that what seems to be an exceptionally good product just hasn't taken off in the way it should have done.
 
i was just reading as you posted SC and thinking as well how nice it was for someone to come on here DISCUSS their product/issues and not hide behind a forum ID. Thank you very much and i have found this thread most interesting. i thought there was some BE rule about saying you were wearing them but it just goes to show how much mis information there is as i fairly certain the reason for this was to make sure suitable keys were available, my whole view of them has changed now i know the key is part of the cage.
thanks once again alistair.
 
Another thought I've had - Kit279 maybe you can answer this - how is hyperextension of the neck possible any more or less than with a normal BP given that your skull hat must surely mean your head sits roughly the same distance away from the ground as the body cage makes the body sit (if you see what I mean). For sure as you're flying through the air your neck could hyperextend, but surely this is no more or less likely than with a normal BP - neither offers any neck support after all.
 
Thank you
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For those concerned about allen keys / removal, we have a copy of the removal instructions (rather small, but legible) on our website:
http://www.bodycage.co.uk/images/EXO%20Removal%20Instructions.JPG
Woof Wear put a lot of time into ensuring some rather good instructive material...

Regarding hyper-extension, I think that you are right - weight on the head will increase the chance of this (so actually using a hat v. not will increase the chance of hyper-extension - rather like increasing the weight on a pendulum...) I am sure that the fear of the Exo causing hyper-extension is due to the cage making the garment sit further away from the body, but as mentioned, this should bring it in line with the helmet, potentially reducing hyper-extension, not increasing it... I am not a scientist, or a medic, so bow to the experience of those who are, and we had the Exo tested and evaluated in concept and reality by world leading experts in impact / spine / medicine / etc.

Protecting the neck is one of the holy grails in riding safety, as anything offering protection to the neck risks reducing mobility of the neck and that is a definite NO for riding, in F1 (as mentioned above) there is far more scope for neck protection as the driver's body / neck / head are reasonably fixed in position - they have mirrors to see behind them! In riding, the need for the rider to move with the horse / look over their shoulder / etc. makes it very difficult to offer neck protection, and anything which risks reducing neck mobility has the potential to increase the opportunity for or risk of accidents - counter-productive, that is why we did not pursue development of neck protection, though the Exo carries the fittings to allow other elements to be attached to it...

The Exo itself follows the contours of the ribs - it is literally acting as a second set of (stronger) ribs in the form of an exo-skeleton, but the ribs themselves don't move - the body flexes around them, but if they are moving, you have problems anyway
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so, it works to have a rigid set which also do not move, it changes nothing in the way in which you ride... it allows you to fall in the same way - it still allows you to roll (a concern for some), though you end up rolling as though you were someone fatter than you actually are if that makes sense - so worth practising!

regards

Alasdair Kirk
Managing Director
BodyCage
 
I agree this is really interesting and I really hope that this product continues to be available and perhaps in a greater range of sizes. I would certainly consider buying one if it was the correct fit. When you weigh about 9 stone I don't think a few pounds would make much difference to the horse, especially if you are not riding at the very top levels.
 
the funny thing is that the EXO actually would protect you from a full on crush type injury where as you are lucky if the normal body protector does little to protoect from any sort of life threatening injury. they are after all made from materials designed to disapate (somewhat) the forse from a blow, i.e. a kick or possible even a high speed tread (as in racing as the field runs over a fallen rider) but urban legend has taken over. They really cannot 'protect the back' or anything else from the impact of half a ton (sic) landing directly on you at speed, but the EXO could i suspect and certainly the technology could be improved by use of carbon fibre's etc so the weight difference was minimal, without any loss of weight bearing capabilty.
An opportunity missed by BE?
 
I have tried one but just found it way too heavy. Its not becos my horse would notice a bit of extra weight but it just felt extremely odd & out of balance with the top half of me weighing so much more than the bottom half (normally the thunder thighs keep the weight downwards!!) I just could not imagine trying to ride XC wearing this contraption. I think maybe the lighter you are the more you notice because the ratio of weight is greater. As Kerelli says when they make a carbon fibre one I will be first in the queue.
 
My main worry about these was the weight. I know I need to lose some weight anyway and was worried that the extra weight of the BP was just more strain on my horse.

But I definitely like the idea of it and always have I would rather a whiplash injury than a crush injury... although this appears to be a myth that it is anymore likely!

The cost is a lot but I wouldn't want to put a price on my life.
It is a shame that they haven't been more popular.

Maybe BE and all the other Eventing bodies should look at making this type if protector compulory in view of the many fatal accidents in our sport over the last few years.

I would prefer this than getting so OTT about the falls that we end up making the fences so safe that the horses don't need to be bold and careful any more!! I am sure that is actually more dangerous!!
 
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the funny thing is that the EXO actually would protect you from a full on crush type injury where as you are lucky if the normal body protector does little to protoect from any sort of life threatening injury. they are after all made from materials designed to disapate (somewhat) the forse from a blow, i.e. a kick or possible even a high speed tread (as in racing as the field runs over a fallen rider) but urban legend has taken over. They really cannot 'protect the back' or anything else from the impact of half a ton (sic) landing directly on you at speed, but the EXO could i suspect and certainly the technology could be improved by use of carbon fibre's etc so the weight difference was minimal, without any loss of weight bearing capabilty.

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When we tested the Exo to the EN 1318 standard (which gives BETA level 3) at SATRA we were looking for the force which is transferred through to the sensor (rider's body) the standard allows a certain amount of force to be transmitted through, but no more...

The Exo gave readings of 0 - i.e. no force transmitted through - when the impact was on the exo, and standard readings on the foam sections... - they thought that the machines were broken initially
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An opportunity missed by BE?

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mmmm
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Alasdair
Managing Director
Bodycage
 
Thank you so much for posting bodycage, very interesting. It is making me thing very seriously about looking into them again. Do you have any plans to offer more sizes? Does the structure make sizing more difficult? Problem i have with all bp's is them being too long and i foundthis when i tried the exo.
 
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