Bolshy, hyped, spooky 6yr old with endless energy - Advice?

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jagmadir

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We bought a 5yr gelding exactly 1 year ago from a friend who had bought him from an auction (his breeder sold him at the auction because he was too much for her) and he was just too much for her also. He's a cob x TB and has the physical attributes of a cob but the energy and flightiness of a TB and he's fantastically agile. He was really naughty for the first 3 months, totally bolshy on the ground, bad in traffic, to lunge and to school. He didn't want to accept a rider and definitely didn't want to learn anything, but after perservering he came good. He went cubbing in the Autumn and was fantastic and went on a few fun rides and popped everything and was schooling well.

From November onwards our horses have had to be stabled 24/7 because of the wet ground, and this didn't suit him. He started acting up again but this time was 10 x worse, whenever I rode out he'd have a head fit on the road, would squeel and bronk, buck and kick out at any passing traffic. He took off and rodeo'd a couple of times and began to wind himself up about traffic passing, so we decided to start boxing him up onto our local hill where there is no traffic so that we didn't endanger anyone on the road. This also didn't work, he just used other things to kick off about. Shadows, hedges, birds... Again, bronking, rodeo'ing and fly bucking.

On the ground he was getting pushier, just walking all over me, I use a dually and have never had a problem being seen as "the boss" with my warmbloods and Irish bred horses. But he takes his power to another level. I started turning him out into a coralled area so he could get some outside time to be a horse and he'd just push through the electric fencing (whilst on) or jump out (wooden posts with full size electric fencing). After a few more awful rides and his total misbehaviour in the school too, I decided to turn him away and bring him back into work in the spring. I'm thinking of bringing him back into work in the next few days actually, as he's now pushing through all of the fencing (he has 60 acres to roam around) and just uses his brute force to get where he wants.

He's had regular checks of everything: teeth, back, physio, farrier, saddle fitter etc and he's in great shape. Just needs a change of attitude. I'm not used to cobs and they're not my horse of choice, but we felt like we were doing him a favour by buying him off our friend. But to be honest, I've lost my determination and respect for him and I'm struggling to see a way out that isn't going to injure me!!

Advice please.
 
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Sounds like he needs to live out. A change of yard? Living in too when he is not happy could make him Ulcery which which would account for some of the spooky silly behaviour.
 
How big is he??

Quality cobs with some tb blood can be the worst, I had one that just did not cope without daily turnout, he was better out at night, he behaved ok on the roads fortunately but in the school he was sharp, lunging was "interesting" he needed to really work hard every day to keep a lid on him if he wasn't getting out enough, he also went off on adventures if he felt like it, I don't think it was anything other than his character, very busy in his brain, energy of a tb and easily bored so liked to add in moves to entertain himself. In summer he was lovely, still bright but nothing like he was mid winter, I sold him to a hunting home which he was well suited to.

With yours if you can work him from the field it may help stop his trips round the property as he will be less bored and hopefully tired when he goes out, I would look at finding him a very active home, guessing you plan on moving him on at some point, with experienced people who will be able to turn out and ride all winter, he should improve with age, work and something to really focus on in life.
 
Reminds me of Mungo, cob xTB we had years ago, he was kept in a concrete cell, he ended up in hunt service and did 3 full days a week. He was an incredible unbreakable tough as teak horse. In summer he lived in a herd of hunt horses and was peaceful until July then he went awol and would be brought back into work.

He used to reverse into the stable door and batter it until it gave way. As good as he was as a hunt horse I don't think a tear was shed when he met his maker.

Feel your pain OP !
 
Cobs (and crosses) are often such lovely, easy people - but when they are complicated, they take it to the extreme!

For the ones who are switched on, it often only takes just that one time (letting them get away (mine did), letting them space invade, etc), for them to know instantly that they can do it again - and maybe take it further too. Some of them would never dream of taking advantage but the rest rarely miss a trick and will use their size (breadth!) to their advantage. I met someone yesterday who described hers as cunning, for example :D. It does sound like he has that sort of brain!

I'd start from absolute scratch with him, almost as if halter breaking and breaking for the first time. From the instant he's caught, demand exactly what you expect of him, as clearly as possible and work him steadily through good handling concepts, and then into lunging/ long reining, schooling and riding. Strong groundwork (and lots of it) has been key to developing a healthy, respectful, trusting relationship with my mare.

I've also just started clicker training with mine and have found her to be instantly receptive to the click-reward theory. The fact that they are generally complete foodies has its benefits!
 
Orca said:
Cobs (and crosses) are often such lovely, easy people - but when they are complicated, they take it to the extreme!

For the ones who are switched on, it often only takes just that one time (letting them get away (mine did), letting them space invade, etc), for them to know instantly that they can do it again - and maybe take it further too. Some of them would never dream of taking advantage but the rest rarely miss a trick and will use their size (breadth!) to their advantage. I met someone yesterday who described hers as cunning, for example :D. It does sound like he has that sort of brain!

I'd start from absolute scratch with him, almost as if halter breaking and breaking for the first time. From the instant he's caught, demand exactly what you expect of him, as clearly as possible and work him steadily through good handling concepts, and then into lunging/ long reining, schooling and riding. Strong groundwork (and lots of it) has been key to developing a healthy, respectful, trusting relationship with my mare.

I've also just started clicker training with mine and have found her to be instantly receptive to the click-reward theory. The fact that they are generally complete foodies has its benefits!
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Mine can be an absolute swine if he senses weakness. He is constantly assessing the situation and seeing if he can push it, and if he can he will. Luckily hes good to ride, and to be fair to him, on the ground now as well, but thats because hes being worked quite hard and hes tired! A tired cob is a good cob in my experience!
 
I have a hot cob, talented and bright. Nowhere near extreme as your's by the sound of it but she can be a handful in the wrong environment and certainly knows her own strength. She too will break out of her stable / field just for the hell of it.

Mains wire electric keeps mine in and a solid stable door with a further rail on the inside. She needs a good 8 hours out a day, more the better. Adlib hay, high fibre diet. Group turnout suits her better than individual or pair grazing.

Lunging reinforces the ground manners and burns excess energy - I use two lines and wear a hat! Regular lunging really makes such a difference with mine - she is much more respectful of my space when I adhere to it.

If she looks hot I lead her to and from the field (3/4 mile track) in a chiffney bit - she respects that. Under saddle the more work she has and the more variety she has the better. She also likes routine. Her sharp, bolshy, spooky periods seem to be linked to lack of work, lack of turnout, and changes to routine. I actually think its anxiety related although she comes across as a confident horse, over confident at times.
 
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Pearlsasinger said:
Turn him out and cut his food right back (assuming that you r feeding him). I am not surprised he is bolshy ifhe is stabled 24/7!
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The OP said he has been turned away on 60 acres for some time but is now pushing down fences, if he is alone that may be part of the problem but being shut in and fed too much is not the current issue.
 
some horses dont suit a livery set up and doing schooling and easy hacks etc. my old-school horsey neighbours got one in exactly like that as owner was struggling. They turned it round in three weeks by cutting all food, having it out 24/7 and working it as much as possible. Anytime they took it out they would tire it out cantering it up hills or around gallops.

They sold him to a guy who loved high action work and did a lot of hunting and high energy rideouts. Saw them on a fun ride recently and they looked like a great pair. Horse is still high-energy and can get excited, but doesn't phase the new owner at all. Was chatting to the guy and he just said the horse is the kind that needs to be worked into the ground to be happy.
 
If and only if you get to the point of no return with him as a last ditch thing try him on regumate ( the stuff for mareish mares ).
It saved one horse we bought .
But you are going to have to have a very busy full time job for this horse to do what is he to be aimed at .
Sounds like being a hunt servants horse might suit.
Eta when TB /cob crosses come out this this they can be just horrible .
 
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Thanks guys!

Just to clarify, he was in 24/7 for about 2 weeks, was then put out during the day into a corall (but was popping or pushing out!), and then he's been out with a herd of others since Christmas. I don't feed him and didn't when he was in work either, only if he'd had a hard day would he come back to some chaff, calm & condition and carrots. He does well on nothing and I'm not a great believer in pumping feed into them unless they're out competing or need it for conditioning purposes.

I'm defintely going to start from scratch. He's a total a** on the ground, you can spend an hour working with him on the ground and he'll accept what you've taught him eventually, but then all it takes is another horse moving, calling or a bird flying past and he's totally distracted and having a stroppy fit! I wonder whether he might be a bit riggy, he has quite a few riggy attributes!

Unfortunately we can't move him as we own our own yard and land, so we don't have a livery yard, it's just our own horses and facilities.

It sounds like a lot of people have experienced the Cob x TB rath, haha!
 
jagmadir said:
Thanks guys!

Just to clarify, he was in 24/7 for about 2 weeks, was then put out during the day into a corall (but was popping or pushing out!), and then he's been out with a herd of others since Christmas. I don't feed him and didn't when he was in work either, only if he'd had a hard day would he come back to some chaff, calm & condition and carrots. He does well on nothing and I'm not a great believer in pumping feed into them unless they're out competing or need it for conditioning purposes.

I'm defintely going to start from scratch. He's a total a** on the ground, you can spend an hour working with him on the ground and he'll accept what you've taught him eventually, but then all it takes is another horse moving, calling or a bird flying past and he's totally distracted and having a stroppy fit! I wonder whether he might be a bit riggy, he has quite a few riggy attributes!

Unfortunately we can't move him as we own our own yard and land, so we don't have a livery yard, it's just our own horses and facilities.

It sounds like a lot of people have experienced the Cob x TB rath, haha!
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The horse we sorted with regumate had riggy type behaviour but was not a rig he went on to be a great hunting horse but was always one you had to keep on top of .
He was hours from a one way trip to the kennels when a dealer friend suggested the regumate.
He was on it one summer and part of the first winter then we managed him without as we had in hard work and we stayed on top of him.
 
Goldenstar said:
The horse we sorted with regumate had riggy type behaviour but was not a rig he went on to be a great hunting horse but was always one you had to keep on top of .
He was hours from a one way trip to the kennels when a dealer friend suggested the regumate.
He was on it one summer and part of the first winter then we managed him without as we had in hard work and we stayed on top of him.
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I have a friend who calmed her very late cut and previously used as a stallion cob by feeding alfalfa, which contains phytoestrogens and has a similar effect to regumate.
 
I think you need some help from a professional who has seen this sort of behaviour 100 times before and has all the tools (figuratively speaking) and the facilities to deal with it. I agree that he's probably the sort of horse that needs lots of work and keeping constantly busy but you couldn't even sell him to someone who could do this at the moment and be confident that they'd be safe if he's that obnoxious on the ground. A good western trainer with a round pen could do the consistent groundwork to teach him the rules he needs to abide by before getting into the ridden work - the good ones are not cowboys and they are not rough with the horses but they use a combination of technique and timing.
I know first hand this works - the guy that trained my horse also had a heavyweight coloured cob in at the time - his owner couldn't lead or load him, let alone trust him to behave around other horses. In the first week he was with my trainer the horse rolled on him because he wasn't allowed to nap back to the school gate, but with patience and perseverance he was transformed. His owner has to use the same techniques and stay on top of the issue, but it works. Not sure where you are in the country, my trainer is based in Warwickshire and is called Shane Borland, but if you contact WES (Western Equestrian Society) they can suggest approved trainers in different parts of the country.
 
I was also wondering if you might benefit from getting a pro in to give you a hand and the benefit of their experience. Not because you aren't capable but just that whatever you did with him first time round seems not to have stuck!
 
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