Bolshy pony help please!

tankgirl1

tankgirl1

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Hiya

So boyo can be a bit pushy in hand on the yard, but is generally fine and listens, will walk nicely, stand & back up by voice command in a normal headcollar, but will be bullish and take the pee if given half a chance.

I decided to take him for a little walk out in hand today, checked with his owner that that was OK, put his bridle on with a newmarket chain and leadrode and off we pop. At a favourite napping spot (bottom of a hill lol) he started messing about but nothing too bad, just planting. We keep going, get onto the bridle way and he plants again, I ask him to walk on, he refuses, I give him a tap with stick where my leg would be, nothing, (meanwhile a pony a few fields away starts shouting) carried on asking and getting no where, he gradually started messing about, trying to spin round and tank off, doing mini rears, shoving past me etc etc. It was really quite scary, and it was on a slippy grass incline, so I was worried about both his safety and mine.

I decided in the interests of safety to let him graze for a few mins whilst we both calmed down, and then to turn around and walk back home.... his idea was to refuse to walk on when asked & keep shoving and bulling to try and graze. When I finally got him to walk on he jogged, pulled like a tank, and generally ignored me. Tried halting and doing stand & back ups but he was having none of it - Was a nightmare! Eventually managed to get back at a walk, but it was a thoroughly horrible experience!

I spoke to owner when we got back, and she said that he has never really been out for a walk in hand, and that he has been known to be bullish and bolshy in hand before, and that she had come to the conclusion that he knows he's bigger and stronger and just takes the mick. He was good as gold on the yard again, and stood there like butter wouldn't melt :rolleyes:

Owner has a dually which she has used on him in the past with good effect.
I'm just wondering where to go from here really - plenty of groundwork in the field?
 
Everything you are doing to solve the problems this horse has will make him worse.

Don't use those horrid pressure dually things, the good effect hasn't lasted has it.

If I were you I'd get some help.
 
Pale Rider said:
Everything you are doing to solve the problems this horse has will make him worse.

Don't use those horrid pressure dually things, the good effect hasn't lasted has it.

If I were you I'd get some help.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply.

I'm aware that what I did today was wrong in terms of training - letting him graze then turning round and going home, but at that point it was a matter of safety, and there was no way I was fighting with a spinning rearing pony trying to make him walk up really slippery grass path :o

What would be the most sensible plan of action now with him?

I've heard good things about the duallys, but won't jump into using one without researching properly.
 
Anyone? Please? He is on part loan and I'm going up again tomorrow morning and would really appreciate some thoughts.

He's fine when ridden out, seems to nap at the bottom of the hill, but has seen physio/saddler/dentist/vet/farrier recently and been given the all clear. He is just being brought back into work after a bout of lammi last year. Friend and I have been part loaning him for about 2 months, have known him for about 4 months. He's a 14.3hh Welsh D cross gelding, 10yo.

I would describe friend and myself as experienced novices. We have spent many years as youngsters riding together, and have got back into it in the last 18months. We are both committed to doing things properly & are planning lessons with boyo for the summer.

I would much rather you lovely HHO bunch told me I handled today really badly and then give some constructive advice... :o
 
Get a rope halter, a long rope and get some good solid groundwork in with him.

Teach him to back up, move the hind quarters, move the forehand etc.. With cues, so eventually you don't need to touch him at all. Being able to disengage the hindquarters can help to diffuse a whole manner of problems as it stops all forward momentum of the horse. Good luck :)
 
ImmyS said:
Get a rope halter, a long rope and get some good solid groundwork in with him.

Teach him to back up, move the hind quarters, move the forehand etc.. With cues, so eventually you don't need to touch him at all. Being able to disengage the hindquarters can help to diffuse a whole manner of problems as it stops all forward momentum of the horse. Good luck :)
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Thanks Immy :) Could you break down the 'disengaging of hindquarters' into more novicey speak? We are experienced at staying on and mucking out - not so experienced when it comes to horsey jargon :o
 
Perhaps part of the problem is that you couldn't really put him straight due to being worried about the surface? My lad is an angel on the whole but if he thinks he can be silly, he will be. On the yard it's easy to stick up for yourself and be strict. Out and about, you end up thinking 'what if': ie what if he runs off and steps on the leadrope, what if he gets in front of a car, what if he slips and hurts himself... When you're worrying you're not leading, and he'll see the power vacuum and play you up. I've found that going in tough in a safe environment then building up to going outside where other influences are helps. You must expect him to be good, and know completely that you are in charge. It only needs to be 51% you, but you have to lead, all the time. It's tough when they are cute but they do have a happier life when they respect you, and everyone stays safe!
 
SadKen said:
Perhaps part of the problem is that you couldn't really put him straight due to being worried about the surface? My lad is an angel on the whole but if he thinks he can be silly, he will be. On the yard it's easy to stick up for yourself and be strict. Out and about, you end up thinking 'what if': ie what if he runs off and steps on the leadrope, what if he gets in front of a car, what if he slips and hurts himself... When you're worrying you're not leading, and he'll see the power vacuum and play you up. I've found that going in tough in a safe environment then building up to going outside where other influences are helps. You must expect him to be good, and know completely that you are in charge. It only needs to be 51% you, but you have to lead, all the time. It's tough when they are cute but they do have a happier life when they respect you, and everyone stays safe!
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I said to his owner that I thought the problem was once he started messing about on the slippy grass incline I got scared, and he knew it! And due to the situation I was too scared to carry on, but then he started messing about on the way home too!

Any groundwork recommendations? I'm a fan of Micheal Peace and Kelly Marks, but don't want to try and copy them and completely balls it up!
 
tankgirl1 said:
Thanks Immy :) Could you break down the 'disengaging of hindquarters' into more novicey speak? We are experienced at staying on and mucking out - not so experienced when it comes to horsey jargon :o
Click to expand...

No worries I'll try and break it down for you :) my mare is quite a big girl and was very aggressive when we bought her, not particularly bolshy but lacked respect, I.e if you asked her to move out of your space she would refuse. I started using natural horsemanship methods to achieve the above movements I listed so she now does these movements off cues e.g she backs up immediately if I waggle my figure or click my tongue.

Now disengaging the hindquarters could be literally seen as, as an example, the horse is out on the lunge, walking or at whatever pace going round, with a cue the horse will spin its back end round so all forward motion stops and the horse ends up standing facing you.

initially I would ask my horse to stand, I would be in front slightly to the side and not aggressively but confidently stride in a kind of semicircle towards the horses side, looking at the hip area (as this is the part of the horse you want to move as you want the horses back end to spin around its front so the front end remains steady like a pivot action). A first if the horses does not move its hind quarters away from you, you may swing the rope towards the hip area or even tap with the rope if necessary however as soon as the horses spins that back end away, all pressure must be released and you must relax and praise the horse.

I have continued to fine tune this technique until she disengages on command ie if on the lunge f I step sideways and point at her hip she immediately disengages and stops to face me. Or if she's in a bolshy or spooky mood and is rushing ahead of me I can quickly step in, spin her hind quarters and diffuse her tantrums.

He's an example video
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yPaSvxk6vUE

Hope that helped a little
 
Since he is good to hack out should we continue to do so - or will he no longer be good to hack out past this spot? Should we concentrate on groundwork only? Time with him is at a premium as both friend and I are self employed so mad busy (hence why part loan), but like to muck out both him and owners other pony as a gesture of goodwill, plus its an hour round trip to him, so have an hour tops to groom/play/ride! Have more time at weekends, and will have more time again when the clocks change as we will be able to ride in the evenings.
 
tankgirl1 said:
Since he is good to hack out should we continue to do so - or will he no longer be good to hack out past this spot? Should we concentrate on groundwork only? Time with him is at a premium as both friend and I are self employed so mad busy (hence why part loan), but like to muck out both him and owners other pony as a gesture of goodwill, plus its an hour round trip to him, so have an hour tops to groom/play/ride! Have more time at weekends, and will have more time again when the clocks change as we will be able to ride in the evenings.
Click to expand...

I would hack him still to give him variety and interest, even doing 5 or 10 mins of ground work everytime after you ride will be great for him, it's surprisingly how quick horses learn and much they remember, better to keep sessions short and sweet :)
 
ImmyS said:
No worries I'll try and break it down for you :) my mare is quite a big girl and was very aggressive when we bought her, not particularly bolshy but lacked respect, I.e if you asked her to move out of your space she would refuse. I started using natural horsemanship methods to achieve the above movements I listed so she now does these movements off cues e.g she backs up immediately if I waggle my figure or click my tongue.

Now disengaging the hindquarters could be literally seen as, as an example, the horse is out on the lunge, walking or at whatever pace going round, with a cue the horse will spin its back end round so all forward motion stops and the horse ends up standing facing you.

initially I would ask my horse to stand, I would be in front slightly to the side and not aggressively but confidently stride in a kind of semicircle towards the horses side, looking at the hip area (as this is the part of the horse you want to move as you want the horses back end to spin around its front so the front end remains steady like a pivot action). A first if the horses does not move its hind quarters away from you, you may swing the rope towards the hip area or even tap with the rope if necessary however as soon as the horses spins that back end away, all pressure must be released and you must relax and praise the horse.

I have continued to fine tune this technique until she disengages on command ie if on the lunge f I step sideways and point at her hip she immediately disengages and stops to face me. Or if she's in a bolshy or spooky mood and is rushing ahead of me I can quickly step in, spin her hind quarters and diffuse her tantrums.

He's an example video
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yPaSvxk6vUE

Hope that helped a little
Click to expand...

Thank you! I watched the video - Does that still work when a willful Sec D is ignoring all the commands he listens to beautifully on the yard? Not that I am planning on taking him out in hand again any time soon, if indeed ever! :o
 
tankgirl1 said:
Thank you! I watched the video - Does that still work when a willful Sec D is ignoring all the commands he listens to beautifully on the yard? Not that I am planning on taking him out in hand again any time soon, if indeed ever! :o
Click to expand...

As long as you had put the time and work in so that he responded to cues clearly and consistently then yes it should work, he should have a lot more focus on you. It works on my reactive, tantrum prone ex racer, she constantly listens to me since doing these exercises with her :)
 
ImmyS said:
I would hack him still to give him variety and interest, even doing 5 or 10 mins of ground work everytime after you ride will be great for him, it's surprisingly how quick horses learn and much they remember, better to keep sessions short and sweet :)
Click to expand...

He does love hacking out! He heads for the gate once tacked up - let me out! I need to nosey and see stuff! I have referred to him as the Border Collie of the horse world! But then this bloody planting and napping at the foot of the hill, plus todays adventures in hand - Am I outhorsed? I'm falling fast for the naughty so and so! :( I need him and I to reach an agreement! Yes I will re-read my Micheal Peace books asap :o
 
ImmyS said:
As long as you had put the time and work in so that he responded to cues clearly and consistently then yes it should work, he should have a lot more focus on you. It works on my reactive, tantrum prone ex racer, she constantly listens to me since doing these exercises with her :)
Click to expand...

More groundwork then no? He has a very dedicated owner, he lives at her home, we can't be there at bucket time, can only give haynets/treats with owners approval, can't give the odd treat or carrot as he is lammi prone........ Friend and I were discussing today - he doesn't associate us with anything positive, when we rock up it just means work for him :(

His owner is open to the idea of him possibly moving to a yard near us - If we can find one! If he was nearby he would have consistent care from me and/or friend (Jo), either me or Jo would see to him, pick out feet, groom him, turn in/out, be the provider of a tiny bucket of un molassed chop - We'd both see him and interact with him every single day - would that help with our whole general relastionship? I can only think it would!
 
tankgirl1 said:
was once he started messing about on the slippy grass incline I got scared, and he knew it!
Click to expand...

When you got scared, he got unsettled. He didn't take advantage of your fear, he was affected by it and that caused his behaviour.

Although the pony is obviously in need of some groundwork training (chiefly a lesson in how to yield to pressure), you have to realise that you really need some help in honing your handling skills. Being able to handle a pony without being afraid goes a long way toward achieving control.

I wouldn't be inclined to use a Dually in your situation.

There is no doubt that more time spent with the pony would benefit you both. Consistent, frequent good handling and management are the basis for training and working of ponies and horses. If you only see him infrequently, he will take much longer to respond to your training and change for the better.
 
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AengusOg said:
When you got scared, he got unsettled. He didn't take advantage of your fear, he was affected by it and that caused his behaviour.

Although the pony is obviously in need of some groundwork training (chiefly a lesson in how to yield to pressure), you have to realise that you really need some help in honing your handling skills. Being able to handle a pony without being afraid goes a long way toward achieving control.

I wouldn't be inclined to use a Dually in your situation.

There is no doubt that more time spent with the pony would benefit you both. Consistent, frequent good handling and management are the basis for training and working of ponies and horses. If you only see him infrequently, he will take much longer to respond to your training and change for the better.
Click to expand...

Thankyou for the reply AengusOg :)

Who would you recommend for help? I have tried contacting a IHRA but had no response as yet.
 
Just like Molly mid January when I got her. Would plant and go up and be generally bolshy.

When she planted, I would stand at her shoulder, facing forwards and swing the end of the lead rope back to let it slap her side and very firmly, but not aggressively say WALK ON. Worked first time, only did it one more time, problem solved.

It doesn't hurt as a thick soft lead rope with just a swing...not a smack or whack at all. I won't do anything to hurt or scare a horse...as can be seen by anyone that ever wants to come visit...but I will nip these things in the bud before they become troublesome.

I would expect to sort through these issues on the yard before going outside in hand...and I would advise using a lunge line as you have that extra length for safety.
 
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