Bolshy youngster...

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Char0901

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Hi, I'm having a bit of trouble with my 10 month old gelding.
He gets turned out during the day and in at night.
I don't have a lot of time to handle him, I work 8-5 Mon to Fri and my friend who's yard he's at is busy with lambing.
He's become a terror to turn out, have to walk through one field to get to theirs. So much so friend has given up trying to lead and now he just follows her filly. Can't blame her, shes too busy to risk getting injured.
We've also had trouble picking his feet up. He's had mud fever quite badly so maybe he's just got fed up with being hassled, scrubbed and creamed! Anyway, he has pig oil put on once a week but even to do this we have to twitch him otherwise we get dragged around the stable and it turns into a fight.
Which leads to... He doesn't tie up well. He knows about pressure and release and leads in hand (when not being turned out!) like a gem. But when he's tied up he constantly pulls back and strains against it. I'm terrified of the baler twine snapping and him going over backwards or him damaging his neck. He's so stubborn with it.
He's not nasty in any way, never threatens to kick etc, he is literally just bolshy. And standing at at least 14.3 currently so not something you can 'pin down' and man handle or force.
He's being turned out for the summer soon, (away from the farm but only a few minutes away) with his half brother (a 2 year old). I really want to get on top of all this before he's turned out.
Just to say he won't be turned out and left, I'll still see him, halter him occasionally etc. And if he's anything like his mum will probably need a feed a couple of times a week!
I'm going to start handling him more, now it's still light when I finish work.
But I don't know where to start?
And I don't know how to go about it.
Please no nasty comments, I just want to get it right.
 
Books that I have found very useful with my youngster are Richard Maxwell's 'from birth to backing' & 'train your young horse'

However, if your youngster truly understands pressure and release, I am not sure why he would still pull back when tied up?
 
Tbh I would invest in a Richard Maxwell headcollar or a bog standard rope headcollar. Use a lunge line and make sure you have gloves on. Do 5-10 mins handling every day with it on - youtube it if you don't know how to - within a week you will see a huge difference.

Obviously do not use it for tying up purposes.

I personally wouldn't be worried that he doesn't tie up, but I would expect him to have respect for you whilst being led before being turned away. Once he has respect for you and the headcollar he will be better to teach to tie up anyway. If you really can't hold one side of him, ask a strong man to hang on for a couple of times!
 
Thanks I'll have a look for those books.
He just seems to lead well, will back up, turn, stop etc. But being tied up seems a completely different story!
I've just been having a look at the Dually halters, says they are good for youngsters, how young is too young though? I can't find the recommendation.
 
try tying him up with a haynet or lick so he associates it with food and nice things a bit more and just groom him so he is relaxed and after a while he should become much better at being tied up, you could try turning him out in a bridle if he is strong or rewarding with with a treat when he gets to the field just don't go to overboard with treats you don't want to start a biting habit! Maybe when he gets a bit older he will just improve my youngster was similar, try lots of different techniques and you'll just have to find the most effective one for your horse.
 
LJR said:
Tbh I would invest in a Richard Maxwell headcollar or a bog standard rope headcollar. Use a lunge line and make sure you have gloves on. Do 5-10 mins handling every day with it on - youtube it if you don't know how to - within a week you will see a huge difference.

Obviously do not use it for tying up purposes.

I personally wouldn't be worried that he doesn't tie up, but I would expect him to have respect for you whilst being led before being turned away. Once he has respect for you and the headcollar he will be better to teach to tie up anyway. If you really can't hold one side of him, ask a strong man to hang on for a couple of times!
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Regarding a strong man, my friends husband is about 6 foot 5 and a bughley farmer... However he too is lambing 24/7 at the minute!
 
Char0901 said:
Thanks I'll have a look for those books.
He just seems to lead well, will back up, turn, stop etc. But being tied up seems a completely different story!
I've just been having a look at the Dually halters, says they are good for youngsters, how young is too young though? I can't find the recommendation.
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but he does not lead well to the field, you need to put some time into him before it gets out of hand-ideally every day till he is good and easy to lead all the time then top it up once a week, a ten month old that is in at night needs handling daily to get to and from the field and if manners are not insisted on things get out of hand quickly. depending on the youngster, the situation and safety aspects the tying up really would not worry me at this stage the leading would be top priority though
 
Thanks MagicStars. We've tried a haynet or distractions but he's too interested in other things. (lives on a working farm which is great for babies! Not bothered about cows, tractors etc! But SO much to look at.
However is has just come to me that we've only ever tied him up when we've been washing his legs or something. Not actually done it just for the sake of it. Actually to be fair to him, it's only ever been done when we had to do something with him like treat his mud fever, which obviously isn't fun! Will try a nice groom tomorrow. Usually just leave him loose in his stable when I brush him.
Gosh I take a lot for granted with older horses!
 
twiggy2 said:
but he does not lead well to the field, you need to put some time into him before it gets out of hand-ideally every day till he is good and easy to lead all the time then top it up once a week, a ten month old that is in at night needs handling daily to get to and from the field and if manners are not insisted on things get out of hand quickly. depending on the youngster, the situation and safety aspects the tying up really would not worry me at this stage the leading would be top priority though
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Thanks, yes this needs sorting asap. He too big to act like this.
He leads well when we go out for in hand walks, around the farm and the pub car park next door. It's just on the way to the field that he gets rude
 
AengusOg said:
Big strong men are not the answer, unless they know what they are doing. It's about brains, not brawn.
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Yes he knows what he's doing with them, hes very gentle and patient with them despite his size. His height and strength is just a bonus when they do play up, he can keep hold at least
 
AengusOg said:
Big strong men are not the answer, unless they know what they are doing. It's about brains, not brawn.
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Hmmm I disagree :p Sometimes if a youngster has been getting away with blue murder and throwing their weight around, there is an advantage to putting a big man onto the end of a long rope and them realising that they can't get away with trumpeting off!
 
OP If you look in Jennie Loristons Clarke book breaking & training the young horse there is a bit on teaching to tie up using a lunge line, alternatively if you have a very solidly fixed post/ tie ring you can tie to that he will soon learn he cannot get away. I initially tied both my foals on solid tie rings not baling twine as they soon learn that will break, they both tested then realised they wernt going anywhere, make sure you are in attendance tho and reward quickly when he settles.
 
irishdraft said:
OP If you look in Jennie Loristons Clarke book breaking & training the young horse there is a bit on teaching to tie up using a lunge line, alternatively if you have a very solidly fixed post/ tie ring you can tie to that he will soon learn he cannot get away. I initially tied both my foals on solid tie rings not baling twine as they soon learn that will break, they both tested then realised they wernt going anywhere, make sure you are in attendance tho and reward quickly when he settles.
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Great way to cause injury or worse
 
Personally I'd get turned out 24/7 now - I see a big difference between my 10 month old who is out in a herd 24/7 and another youngster on the yard who is 2 weeks older but stabled at night. The stabled one looks a bit better but is much more of a handful to do anything with.
 
mynutmeg said:
Personally I'd get turned out 24/7 now - I see a big difference between my 10 month old who is out in a herd 24/7 and another youngster on the yard who is 2 weeks older but stabled at night. The stabled one looks a bit better but is much more of a handful to do anything with.
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Unfortunately he can't go out 24/7 yet. My friend owns his half brother (same stallion) and it depends when he comes over as to when they go out 24/7. It won't be long though. Stallion (half bro, 2 yo) was gelded a week and a half ago and I know she's keen for him to go out and grow up asap too.
 
When mine was that age (colt) (and in fact still do this) I would always lead him in hat, gloves, dually halter (control type halter) and a long line. As you are leading, make sure he keeps his nose level with your shoulder. this can involve a lot of correcting - a short tug on the lead line which will transfer to the nose rope of the head collar. Try and correct before he actually gets much in front. Make him back up if he does. Stop several times when leading to the field, or from the field. Make him move out of your space instead of moving out of his space. You have to do this consistently every day.

There was no way I would have been able to do this (due to my inexperience with youngsters and general cack-handedness!) without professional help so I got some and I also paid to have the others on the yard who handle him trained in the same way so we were all consistent. He is 2 1/2 now (gelded) and quite a big boy but has very good manners nearly all the time.
 
I've been looking into a dually halter but I thought maybe he was too young for it? I can't find anything that suggests a minimum age though, so maybe not.
I know with work he'll be fine, he's a lovely boy, just trying to push the boundaries at the moment!
I just felt like everything was going wrong and didn't know where to start again.
Thanks to you lovely lot, I now have ideas to play with.
He's my first and only homebred foal from my late mare, and he is for keeps regardless. I just don't want to ruin him before we've even begun!
 
Get him a dually, They work with all ages, just fit it properly, when leading to the field, circle him or stand him, back him up, make him realise that you are in charge, for tying up, I use a lunge line through the ring to the headcollar, again, if he pulls away you can bring him back safely, but I always have a haynet to keep them occupied, youngsters want to explore their world and see how much they can get away with
 
lf you are only tying him up when you need to do something he isn't going to learn very quickly. You need to be tying him every time to teach him that standing politely (for no reason) isn't a hug issue and will be repaid with lots of fuss good stuff...

FWlW - you need to nip it in the bud before he snaps the baling twine as once he has done it once you will have no chance :(

l am another one who has tied to a solid fixed ring and just let them fight it out with themselves (only had to do this once - with a twine breaker). Safety knots are essential though if you do this so you can quickly release if they do panic/go up. This lS a possibility, and if it happens you will have to rethink your way, but if it works, it works quickly and the lesson is then learned. As long as the horse is just pulling, they will not do themselves any harm.

Another thing you can try (which l have done with a panicked who l would not have wanted to tie up to a solid as she was a big mardy bum) is to use a lunge line, loop it through a solid ring (so it looks like they are ties up) and you hold the end. lf they go to walk off take up the slack and hold, once they release, you release. You can do this stood next to them initially but eventually control there movement from further away as you are using a lunge line.

l hope you get it nipped in the bud as bolshy babies soon become bolshy 'teenagers' and that's when the problems start...
 
For tying up the way I taught it was to use a long line fed through the ring from Milo's headcollar to my hand and then did things with him while he was 'tied' which meant that I could give him a nudge to step forward if he started to lean into the pressure and I was also able to ensure he didn't learn to break string (if he didn't step forward you can let out some line so he doesn't learn to fight it) and he didn't injure his neck by pulling against a solid tie ring with no release. I always tie up with hay or a feed so he has something to keep him occupied.
 
Relax, he's going through the teenage stage and will grow out of it, he's not been handled much, so don't expect him to be mister perfect everytime, just keep things simple and quiet until you have the time to do more things with him, he's a 10 month old baby with a short attention span.
 
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