Bolting at the mount & dismount. HELP!

[sarahjean_withhorses]

Hi, everyone!

I need your HELPPPP

I have an 11-year-old OTTB who raced until he was 8 and I have had for 3 years. Gelded at 8. Lightly restarted before I got him. When I went to try him initially I remember the rider having 2 people hold him at the mounting block and they did the same for me, too, when I got on and off of him. I didn't think anything of it at the time.

When I brought him home, the first 5 or so rides he dumped me as I went to mount. I would have a foot in the stirrup (from a mounting block) swing up and as my right leg was mid-air, he would bolt forward violently and leave me in the dust. So, I started mounting him with his head in a corner/up to the rail. Seemed to help. I should add once under saddle, he is PERFECT.

I continued this style of mounting for a year and a half. Still squirmy to mount, but I could do it. He was fine with the dismount by this time. Showed him BN eventing, 1st level dressage rather successfully.

Fast-forward March 2019 - I leave for a business trip and send him to a trainer. Trainer reports they can't get on him without bolting. I start back from scratch and am able to mount. Fast forward September 2019. I leave for another business trip and send him to a trainer. Trainer reports they have difficulty mounting/dismounting/spooking.

I go to pick him up from the September trainer and go for a ride, he bolts and leaves me in the dust as I go to mount. I'm too rattled to get back on. Trainer tries and fails.

Back home, my home trainer tries to mount multiple times and the bolting ensues tenfold. So, I start working with a "cowboy" (just a good, good, good man who is excellent with horses) who starts him as he would start his colts. It takes about a month of desensitization, but the horse lets him mount and eventually lets me mount and dismount. Still with insecurities, but he lets us. I have him scoped, treated for grade 4 bleeding ulcers.

February 2020 I am back to riding him on the flat (no jump work) regularly and am using desensitization and lots of half-mounting exercises before actually mounting. Lots of dressage clinics, lessons, etc. He is great under saddle.

July 2020 I decided to try jumping again. He is cool as a cucumber. Start integrating small jumps. Upping jump lessons again while still flatting and taking my regular dressage lessons. He is still great under saddle.

Today (August 19) went to mount after doing all my desensitization exercises, lunging, saddle patting, stirrup flapping, one rein stop work, rope halter stuff, I go to mount and just like back to square one, he bolts as my leg is partially over the saddle and I fall hard.

I have a saddle fitter, and we have checked my saddles for a proper fit. The jump saddle isn't perfect, but we have a half-pad that fills the gaps for the level of work he's doing. His teeth are good. When I palpated his back, he was sore. But we've mainly been flatting without much of an increase to his workload. He is on a planned diet with a dietician, gets plenty of turnout, and is regularly checked by a vet.

Anyone else have a horse like this? Kissing spine? Can this be fixed permanently? I just feel like I can't predict the outbursts anymore and I honestly don't feel safe. And not open to selling him as I don't want to pass off a dangerous and unpredictable horse.

 

[Nudibranch]

Vet workup. Investigate back and re scope for ulcers. The answer may be in your post already.

 

[saddlesore]

I agree, the fact his back is sore to the touch means that needs addressing alongside saddle fit and I’d check for ulcers again too or medicate as if they are present to see if his behaviour changes. Have you had his eyesight checked?

 

[holeymoley]

First thoughts- ulcers, cold backed, kissing spine...

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Well you know that his back is sore and that his saddle isn't a particularly good fit, so you surely know where to start sorting out his problems.

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

Vet workup. Investigate back and re scope for ulcers. The answer may be in your post already.

Yes! Vet coming out Monday for a full workup. Just surprised that he would already start showing issues with saddle fit after such a minimal amount of time in that saddle. But I'm not counting it out!

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

Well you know that his back is sore and that his saddle isn't a particularly good fit, so you surely know where to start sorting out his problems.

Yes! Have his fitter coming back out again next week (though she was here under a month ago.) Hopefully it's something as minute as that.

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

First thoughts- ulcers, cold backed, kissing spine...

I was wondering about kissing spine too...I hope the vet will have more answers. Good shout with the re-occurring ulcers, too.

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

I agree, the fact his back is sore to the touch means that needs addressing alongside saddle fit and I’d check for ulcers again too or medicate as if they are present to see if his behaviour changes. Have you had his eyesight checked?

So, we did have his eyesight checked, mainly because he has a tendency to be "looky" only from one side. However, the vet couldn't find any indication of eye issues.

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

Vet workup. Investigate back and re scope for ulcers. The answer may be in your post already.

Thanks! Vet coming Monday. Is there anything in particular I should ask for specifically in the workup? Or will the description of issues alone be enough for them to go off? I just want to get as much as I can out of the vet visit. Fortunately, they are good sporthorse vets.

 

[shortstuff99]

Aside from of the vet checks etc, I know a lot of racehorses are used to being mounted while on the move. What would he be like if you were logged up as he was being walked?

 

[Jules111]

A few years ago I had a horse who had a real problem when mounting... long and very painful story short it was severe kissing spine. I would have a very good vet investigate the back, xrays and/or MRI will be needed, no vet can see exactly what is happening just visiting the yard. No saddle will help a horse with serious KS, ulcers could be a symptom of pain elsewhere. Good luck, it can be so difficult to find the root of the the problem, your horse will be grateful that you are searching deeper.

 

[Henry02]

Personally, I think it sounds like a trip to the vet hospital is what you need. There’s only limited things the vets can do at home.

 

[Marigold4]

Hi, everyone!

I need your HELPPPP

I have an 11-year-old OTTB who raced until he was 8 and I have had for 3 years. Gelded at 8. Lightly restarted before I got him. When I went to try him initially I remember the rider having 2 people hold him at the mounting block and they did the same for me, too, when I got on and off of him. I didn't think anything of it at the time.

When I brought him home, the first 5 or so rides he dumped me as I went to mount. I would have a foot in the stirrup (from a mounting block) swing up and as my right leg was mid-air, he would bolt forward violently and leave me in the dust. So, I started mounting him with his head in a corner/up to the rail. Seemed to help. I should add once under saddle, he is PERFECT.

I continued this style of mounting for a year and a half. Still squirmy to mount, but I could do it. He was fine with the dismount by this time. Showed him BN eventing, 1st level dressage rather successfully.

Fast-forward March 2019 - I leave for a business trip and send him to a trainer. Trainer reports they can't get on him without bolting. I start back from scratch and am able to mount. Fast forward September 2019. I leave for another business trip and send him to a trainer. Trainer reports they have difficulty mounting/dismounting/spooking.

I go to pick him up from the September trainer and go for a ride, he bolts and leaves me in the dust as I go to mount. I'm too rattled to get back on. Trainer tries and fails.

Back home, my home trainer tries to mount multiple times and the bolting ensues tenfold. So, I start working with a "cowboy" (just a good, good, good man who is excellent with horses) who starts him as he would start his colts. It takes about a month of desensitization, but the horse lets him mount and eventually lets me mount and dismount. Still with insecurities, but he lets us. I have him scoped, treated for grade 4 bleeding ulcers.

February 2020 I am back to riding him on the flat (no jump work) regularly and am using desensitization and lots of half-mounting exercises before actually mounting. Lots of dressage clinics, lessons, etc. He is great under saddle.

July 2020 I decided to try jumping again. He is cool as a cucumber. Start integrating small jumps. Upping jump lessons again while still flatting and taking my regular dressage lessons. He is still great under saddle.

Today (August 19) went to mount after doing all my desensitization exercises, lunging, saddle patting, stirrup flapping, one rein stop work, rope halter stuff, I go to mount and just like back to square one, he bolts as my leg is partially over the saddle and I fall hard.

I have a saddle fitter, and we have checked my saddles for a proper fit. The jump saddle isn't perfect, but we have a half-pad that fills the gaps for the level of work he's doing. His teeth are good. When I palpated his back, he was sore. But we've mainly been flatting without much of an increase to his workload. He is on a planned diet with a dietician, gets plenty of turnout, and is regularly checked by a vet.

Anyone else have a horse like this? Kissing spine? Can this be fixed permanently? I just feel like I can't predict the outbursts anymore and I honestly don't feel safe. And not open to selling him as I don't want to pass off a dangerous and unpredictable horse.

Kissing spine?

 

[Marigold4]

It sounds like kissing spines. Vet can do x-rays at yours without taking horse to hospital. If it is KS, it will be easy to see on the x-ray. I would start there. Not easy to treat though.

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

Personally, I think it sounds like a trip to the vet hospital is what you need. There’s only limited things the vets can do at home.

Fortunately, my vet is the mobile version of Tryon Equine Hospital - so they've got great equipment on hand. But, Tryon is only about an hour from me so I'm thinking that just as you're saying, they may come out and then send me up to Tryon.

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

A few years ago I had a horse who had a real problem when mounting... long and very painful story short it was severe kissing spine. I would have a very good vet investigate the back, xrays and/or MRI will be needed, no vet can see exactly what is happening just visiting the yard. No saddle will help a horse with serious KS, ulcers could be a symptom of pain elsewhere. Good luck, it can be so difficult to find the root of the the problem, your horse will be grateful that you are searching deeper.

Thank you - I'm starting to feel it may be KS also...the main goal is to get him as comfortable as possible! Regardless of what that means for his competitive career.

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

It sounds like kissing spines. Vet can do x-rays at yours without taking horse to hospital. If it is KS, it will be easy to see on the x-ray. I would start there. Not easy to treat though.

That's what I'm afraid of :/ The difficulty of treatment.

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

Aside from of the vet checks etc, I know a lot of racehorses are used to being mounted while on the move. What would he be like if you were logged up as he was being walked?

Worth a try! I will need to get a few more hands on deck to help out lol

 

[ForeverBroke_]

Pain aside I wondered if this also stemmed from his racing days and whether he's just used to having people thrown on him rather than being stood to mount! Once a vet has given him a full check over and given him the all clear, I would be curious to see how he reacted to this. Don't suppose you've any idea whether he was raced in blinkers/ a hood either? I do think the vet will be able to fill in a lot of the blanks for you. Best of luck with your vet visit. Keep us posted.

 

[Henry02]

If it is KS then could be worth checking with your vet.

ive has xrays done at home that showed them up, however horse had to go into hospital for a stronger X-ray to enable better view and injections to be done.

 

[Polos Mum]

HWhen I palpated his back, he was sore.

You've answered your own question. Horses are stoic and put up with a lot without showing discomfort. If he's sort to the touch / hand pressure on his back imagine how he feels with the weight of saddle and rider.

I'd get a new vet if the vet has checked him and OK'd you to crack on with him having a sore back.

Relatively cheap x rays will show you anything major in his back
Scope him again and see what the ulsar situation is too

 

[ester]

Depending on what facilities you have to work up it may well be worth going to them instead.
I am another who wondered about the legging up, though you have obviously spent a lot of time trying to sort it since and I would expect a physical issue with the ulcers, there usually is.

 

[LegOn]

From my limited 2nd hand experience of a friends horse who was similar - this sounds alot like hers! So what was happening was the same as you, be because they were so good under saddle and working, alot of people dismissed kissing spines - but the vet explained that because he was being worked correctly, it was opening up the space between the vertebrae but at that moment of mounting, the vertebrae come together because the horse is bowing their back to your weight rather than arching it like when they are working under saddle, so it gave a short very sharp pain causing the bolting. I dont know the full details of the treatment but it was treatable!! Best of luck with your investigations and hopefully its the road to a pain-free life for your & your horse!

 

[Flame_]

I had a horse that did this, or if she held it together while you mounted she'd bolt within the first few circuits of the school. If I could stay on she'd just snap back to normal and be a pretty straightforward ride. I never got to the bottom of it, but I got hurt too many times and my bottle was going. I gave her to the blood bank.

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

Pain aside I wondered if this also stemmed from his racing days and whether he's just used to having people thrown on him rather than being stood to mount! Once a vet has given him a full check over and given him the all clear, I would be curious to see how he reacted to this. Don't suppose you've any idea whether he was raced in blinkers/ a hood either? I do think the vet will be able to fill in a lot of the blanks for you. Best of luck with your vet visit. Keep us posted.

Will do! I've got a pretty tall mounting block (as I am quite short lol) so he always is mounted carefully and quietly. But I'm not counting anything out! Perhaps that would be more comfortable for him. He was not raced in blinkers - at least in the videos I have of him racing. Good shout though. Will update when the vet and saddle fitter come out Monday!

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

I had a horse that did this, or if she held it together while you mounted she'd bolt within the first few circuits of the school. If I could stay on she'd just snap back to normal and be a pretty straightforward ride. I never got to the bottom of it, but I got hurt too many times and my bottle was going. I gave her to the blood bank.

I feel you - I can't risk continuously getting hurt. This last fall wrecked my lower back.

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

From my limited 2nd hand experience of a friends horse who was similar - this sounds alot like hers! So what was happening was the same as you, be because they were so good under saddle and working, alot of people dismissed kissing spines - but the vet explained that because he was being worked correctly, it was opening up the space between the vertebrae but at that moment of mounting, the vertebrae come together because the horse is bowing their back to your weight rather than arching it like when they are working under saddle, so it gave a short very sharp pain causing the bolting. I dont know the full details of the treatment but it was treatable!! Best of luck with your investigations and hopefully its the road to a pain-free life for your & your horse!

This makes 10000000000000000% sense to me! Usually I try and work him in a Pessoa or lunge him long and low first to let his back warm up and let him stretch out. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's working his body the same and correct way he does once under saddle. Super good point.

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

Depending on what facilities you have to work up it may well be worth going to them instead.
I am another who wondered about the legging up, though you have obviously spent a lot of time trying to sort it since and I would expect a physical issue with the ulcers, there usually is.

Yes - I may end up just getting a referral to Tryon Equine Hospital when they come out Monday. I'm hoping they can get a baseline at least at my place first. It's just strange because when I had the "cowboy" out to help (when we thought it was behavioral) he got to the point where he was mounting from the ground every time without him bolting. I would figure that the behavior would get worse if it was pain related. But maybe not necessarily? Ugh. Such a mystery. Ready for answers!!

 

[sarahjean_withhorses]

You've answered your own question. Horses are stoic and put up with a lot without showing discomfort. If he's sort to the touch / hand pressure on his back imagine how he feels with the weight of saddle and rider.

I'd get a new vet if the vet has checked him and OK'd you to crack on with him having a sore back.

Relatively cheap x rays will show you anything major in his back
Scope him again and see what the ulsar situation is too

Good idea to do the rescope. Since it has been 6 months since the original treatment, I wouldn't be surprised if the ulcers are back as I've had friends who have pretty much had to do rounds and rounds of ulcer treatments.