Bolting/Bucking Horse

[D66]

I'd speak to the previous owners, get them to come round and advise. Also it may be worthwhile to stop all food other than grass and hay to see if that reduces bad behaviour. If it does you can then reintroduce feeds one at a time to establish which is causing the upset.

 

[ozpoz]

a bute trial won't help with sacrolileac pain and it does sound as if you need your vet to refer her for a proper work up. One saddle fitting in the time you have had her is not enough, so that is another line of investigation to follow up. i hope you manage to get her sorted but it sounds as if you are on the right track and understand that she can't help reacting to pain now.

 

[Mahoganybay]

a bute trial won't help with sacrolileac pain and it does sound as if you need your vet to refer her for a proper work up. One saddle fitting in the time you have had her is not enough, so that is another line of investigation to follow up. i hope you manage to get her sorted but it sounds as if you are on the right track and understand that she can't help reacting to pain now.

Yes, will sort saddle. I waited 3 months for my made to measure saddle which involved three visits back and forth to get it ‘just right’, so started riding in it July time. Prior to that had the previous owners saddle, which my saddler fit with pads as an inbetween fix.

Saddler was due to come February, date already booked which hopefully will fall into place with our current situation.

 

[MDB]

My first reaction is also to say pain. Which in addition to bucking and bolting may well be causing excessive spookiness and troubles out hacking.
My beautiful mare bucked and bronced me off, somersaulting into the air, twice in 5 mins because of bad saddle fit. Maybe if I had been a good enough rider to stay on board she would have spun or bolted or done the things your mare has done with you. Once we sorted the pain /saddle issue she was totally fine.
In saying that, my first horse was a young gelding who had been a saint accoding to the previous owner, who I also trusted to be completely genuine. However, with me, he was furiously nappy, totally out of control, bitey, he would spin, rear and buck out hacking, and simply not go forward in a straight line. I was not prepared to push him as I felt like he was on the verge of exploding. My confidence was shattered. He knew it and it was a downward spiral. Once we ruled out pain, I decided to sell him and he ended up being a riding school horse!!
Just want to say best of luck. Hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[Maesto's Girl]

I had similar issues with my Arab. Turned out to be a combination of things. 1) I was overhorsed 2) saddle didn't fit (was fitted by a reputable saddler as well), 3) my loss of confidence became gradually worse and worse, and he picked that up and his own loss of confidence in my judgement and any new experience increased until we could only do a maximum of trot in half of the school. He ran/spooked frequently, and bronked me off (violently) twice.

I could have written points 1 and 3! I had everything checked as we were on a spiral downwards. There were tears, I was depressed...it was horrible. Thought it must have been pain - nothing (vet/farrier/physio/saddle) so I returned to me. She ruled the roost. She was in charge of me and we were not a partnership. I got a new instructor based on the goal of strengthening the partnership and 12 months of 5 rides per week and 1 lesson a week, we are now a team. I am not scared of her pulling her trick spook of shoulder drop and spin as she listens.

I'd definitely say in your case OP that there is some pain somewhere, but would advise that once this is sorted (fingers crossed it is for you) that you go back to basic horsemanship lessons so you can both understand eachother better and how you best communicate

Good luck and hope everything works out

 

[FestiveFuzz]

This was my first thought too. A badly fitted saddle (albeit new!) can cause this type of behaviour, and can then lead to the horse being tense and presenting with sore back/SI/hocks etc. A 2nd opinion on the saddle would be my first step, and maybe even before the vet. Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

I too would start by checking the saddle fit, whether MtM or not. Fingers crossed you get to the bottom of the issue quickly.

 

[Red-1]

I may have missed some details, but IMO there would be no problem if you decided that this horse is not for you.

I would first have the tack checked, they can change shape very quickly when they move homes.

If she has never been lame I would send her to a sales livery. If she does not come right in what they consider a 'normal' time frame then I would sell her, have them take her to some competitions so she gets a recent comp record, then advertise.

If she behaves in a way that makes them think something is wrong, then I would go for a full vet workup, like a performance investigation, which is more detailed than a trot up for lameness and is usually done by a specialist at a vet hosp.

The result of that would tell you how to proceed.

However, if, while she is at the selling livery yard she goes really well and you ride her a few times, then there is nothing to stop you changing your mind about selling.

Either way you are not in danger and the horse has the best chance of a happy future.

 

[Hallo2012]

can you borrow the old saddle back for a hile? give her 2 weeks groudnwork and lunging then reintroduce a rider with old saddle and see if any diff?@

 

[Mahoganybay]

I may have missed some details, but IMO there would be no problem if you decided that this horse is not for you.

I would first have the tack checked, they can change shape very quickly when they move homes.

If she has never been lame I would send her to a sales livery. If she does not come right in what they consider a 'normal' time frame then I would sell her, have them take her to some competitions so she gets a recent comp record, then advertise.

If she behaves in a way that makes them think something is wrong, then I would go for a full vet workup, like a performance investigation, which is more detailed than a trot up for lameness and is usually done by a specialist at a vet hosp.

The result of that would tell you how to proceed.

However, if, while she is at the selling livery yard she goes really well and you ride her a few times, then there is nothing to stop you changing your mind about selling.

Either way you are not in danger and the horse has the best chance of a happy future.

This is exactly what happened, I sent her to sales livery and the owner/rider there who is a dressage rider/instructor/judge saw her movement and felt that she was not ‘right’ behind. So a physio was called who suspects hind end issues.

I have her booked into the vets on Monday, at a centre that specialises in lameness. So she is being seen by the top vets in my area.

The lady at sales livery said given how she was presenting, she wouldn’t get on her.

So, my thoughts are to find out what is causing issues, vets and saddle and then take the advise, whatever that might be. One everyone thinks she is ok, includ8ng myself she will go back to the lady at sales livery who is going to do some remedial groundwork and then ride her, I will ask her to assess her suitability for me and then we will take it from there.

If she has to stay there for a while and I go and have lessons, then that’s fine. And if it all dosent work out, then I know I can sell her knowing I tried everything for her and myself.

The lady at sales livery will take her out to competitions for me and get some tests under her belt, she has a lot of contacts too.

 

[ozpoz]

Sounds like a good plan Mahoganybay - i hope she comes right for you.

 

[fredflop]

Just as another thought, I find it’s always worth getting another “sort” of back person to look at the horse. So if you’ve had the physio out,I’d get a mctimomey or similar in for another once over. The different techniques (and people) pick up on different things!

 

[Red-1]

This is exactly what happened, I sent her to sales livery and the owner/rider there who is a dressage rider/instructor/judge saw her movement and felt that she was not ‘right’ behind. So a physio was called who suspects hind end issues.

I have her booked into the vets on Monday, at a centre that specialises in lameness. So she is being seen by the top vets in my area.

The lady at sales livery said given how she was presenting, she wouldn’t get on her.

So, my thoughts are to find out what is causing issues, vets and saddle and then take the advise, whatever that might be. One everyone thinks she is ok, includ8ng myself she will go back to the lady at sales livery who is going to do some remedial groundwork and then ride her, I will ask her to assess her suitability for me and then we will take it from there.

If she has to stay there for a while and I go and have lessons, then that’s fine. And if it all dosent work out, then I know I can sell her knowing I tried everything for her and myself.

The lady at sales livery will take her out to competitions for me and get some tests under her belt, she has a lot of contacts too.

Well that sounds like you are on with good plan. Specialist performance vets, re do the tack, treat whatever is found then it sounds like the training lady has her head straight so take advice based on her and the vets recommendations.

 

[Pc2003]

About 6 months after I got my new horse things were going well so I splashed out on a brand new fitted saddle by a reputable saddler. Things started to go wrong from that day. Whilst my horse didn’t display the behaviour you described he did display some odd behaviour and eventually broke down mechanically. The saddle probably did fit fine but the RVC said it contributed to his issues, hock and back issues.
My horse probably always had these issues but went okay in the saddle I bought him in as he had adjusted over the years and his issues had adjusted to it. Whack a brand new saddle, different fit and instantly it all started going wrong. It could be your mare has always had issues but quietly got on with it but a new saddle has tipped the balance to unbearable for her?

 

[Mahoganybay]

Update for anyone who commented/interested.

Had vet appointment today. After seeing her movement in trot & canter vet thought there was an issue with her right stifle and right fore. Blocked the stifle and she was the same on her left stifle, that was blocked and moving so much better behind. However, it really highlighted her right fore, this was blocked and the difference in her way of going was amazing.

Had X-ray of right fore, both stifles and her complete back. Then her stifles were scanned.

The outcome is that she had inflammation & fluid on both stifles and her coffin joint on her fore (which the vet said was her compensating for her discomfort behind).

She had both stifles & coffin joint medicated. She is to have 2 days box rest, 1 week of inhand walking and then hacking building up to schooling in short bursts, over poles and strengthening.

She’s to see the physio in 3 weeks and return for a check in 6 weeks. In the meant8me, her saddle will be checked.

I’ve been given some Sedalin for when I get back on her.

I am of course nervous to get back on, but will take it really slowly and see how I feel. Hit Air Jacket and a trusty friend booked. She will also go back to the lady at sales livery (as she does rehab livery too), possibly for a month or so, to enable her to assess her, I will go up for lessons and she will be worked correctly.

Time will tell if this has been the cause of the bolting & bucking (I hope so), as she is my dream horse. Keep your fingers crossed for us 🤞

 

[Meredith]

I am sorry your horse has been in pain but so pleased you have found some reasons for her behaviour.
Hoping the vet’s plan gives you a healthy happy mare.
Best Wishes

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Thank you for the update!

Hope recovery goes well, baring mind steriods do make a huge improvement as I've noticed with mine!

 

[eggs]

Very good news that the vet workup had found her issues and that you have a treatment plan.

Excellent that you have got a trusty friend booked. I would be tempted to almost deal with her as a newly backed horse - have you friend lead you around when you get on her to start with.

 

[Mahoganybay]

Very good news that the vet workup had found her issues and that you have a treatment plan.

Excellent that you have got a trusty friend booked. I would be tempted to almost deal with her as a newly backed horse - have you friend lead you around when you get on her to start with.

This is exactly what I’m going to do, I don’t mind saying I’m 50 next birthday and my friend is going to take me for a walk on the lead rein ☺️

 

[bubsqueaks]

Update for anyone who commented/interested.

Had vet appointment today. After seeing her movement in trot & canter vet thought there was an issue with her right stifle and right fore. Blocked the stifle and she was the same on her left stifle, that was blocked and moving so much better behind. However, it really highlighted her right fore, this was blocked and the difference in her way of going was amazing.

Had X-ray of right fore, both stifles and her complete back. Then her stifles were scanned.

The outcome is that she had inflammation & fluid on both stifles and her coffin joint on her fore (which the vet said was her compensating for her discomfort behind).

She had both stifles & coffin joint medicated. She is to have 2 days box rest, 1 week of inhand walking and then hacking building up to schooling in short bursts, over poles and strengthening.

She’s to see the physio in 3 weeks and return for a check in 6 weeks. In the meant8me, her saddle will be checked.

I’ve been given some Sedalin for when I get back on her.

I am of course nervous to get back on, but will take it really slowly and see how I feel. Hit Air Jacket and a trusty friend booked. She will also go back to the lady at sales livery (as she does rehab livery too), possibly for a month or so, to enable her to assess her, I will go up for lessons and she will be worked correctly.

Time will tell if this has been the cause of the bolting & bucking (I hope so), as she is my dream horse. Keep your fingers crossed for us 🤞

So do you have a cause for the inflammation/fluid on stifles ?
Its interesting reading this post especially regarding saddle fit as hadn't ever figured this into our equation of ulcers as was so transfixed on blooming ulcers but looking back I really do question the awful saddle we had fitted by a so called qualified saddle fitter & if it didn't exacerbate the whole sorry saga!
keeping everything crossed for you & so glad you have the start of some answers - good luck.

 

[eahotson]

The only thing I would say is stop riding her until you get some answers.You do not want to get hurt,it is not what it is about.

 

[Abi90]

Update for anyone who commented/interested.

Had vet appointment today. After seeing her movement in trot & canter vet thought there was an issue with her right stifle and right fore. Blocked the stifle and she was the same on her left stifle, that was blocked and moving so much better behind. However, it really highlighted her right fore, this was blocked and the difference in her way of going was amazing.

Had X-ray of right fore, both stifles and her complete back. Then her stifles were scanned.

The outcome is that she had inflammation & fluid on both stifles and her coffin joint on her fore (which the vet said was her compensating for her discomfort behind).

She had both stifles & coffin joint medicated. She is to have 2 days box rest, 1 week of inhand walking and then hacking building up to schooling in short bursts, over poles and strengthening.

She’s to see the physio in 3 weeks and return for a check in 6 weeks. In the meant8me, her saddle will be checked.

I’ve been given some Sedalin for when I get back on her.

I am of course nervous to get back on, but will take it really slowly and see how I feel. Hit Air Jacket and a trusty friend booked. She will also go back to the lady at sales livery (as she does rehab livery too), possibly for a month or so, to enable her to assess her, I will go up for lessons and she will be worked correctly.

Time will tell if this has been the cause of the bolting & bucking (I hope so), as she is my dream horse. Keep your fingers crossed for us 🤞

This sounds like my horse. Was refusing to go forward and they found swelling on her meniscus and fluid on both stifles. Although nothing obviously untoward was found. Both stifles medicated but despite this the vet still insisted it was behavioural and offered no rehab plan.

I turned her away for 4 months then started lots of work in hand, over poles and long reining hacks and walking up and down hills then had the physio out who declared her sound and okay to ride.

We’re now 5 months down the line and she is still sound (although I am paranoid about any tail swish or missed step) and doing more than she ever was but I am very careful to include lots of polework in what we do and make sure she gets lots of straight line hacking

 

[Mahoganybay]

So do you have a cause for the inflammation/fluid on stifles ?
Its interesting reading this post especially regarding saddle fit as hadn't ever figured this into our equation of ulcers as was so transfixed on blooming ulcers but looking back I really do question the awful saddle we had fitted by a so called qualified saddle fitter & if it didn't exacerbate the whole sorry saga!
keeping everything crossed for you & so glad you have the start of some answers - good luck.

Thinking back to August when she came in from the field and galloped to me putting in a sliding stop, her back legs went under her body so much so that she cut the front of her right hind with her right fore.

The vet said, this would have caused it, also she could have done it anytime in the field, getting up from a roll etc.

I’m having her saddle checked and physio treatment. I will also follow the rehab programme to the letter. If in 6 weeks when she returns for her check up she’s still not moving as well as she should, then I will ask for a test of ulcers.

 

[bubsqueaks]

Thinking back to August when she came in from the field and galloped to me putting in a sliding stop, her back legs went under her body so much so that she cut the front of her right hind with her right fore.

The vet said, this would have caused it, also she could have done it anytime in the field, getting up from a roll etc.

I’m having her saddle checked and physio treatment. I will also follow the rehab programme to the letter. If in 6 weeks when she returns for her check up she’s still not moving as well as she should, then I will ask for a test of ulcers.

Its extremely hard isn't it to try & piece it all together - as a homebred 8 year old mare youd think she should be all tickety boo but then you seemed to have ongoing problems a few weeks into owning her which wouldn't really fit with incident in August - its such a steep learning curve isn't it & not a cheap one at that! Then again I have recently read somewhere of a huge percentage of foals being born with ulcers! so what hope is there!! Minefield - good luck

 

[Mahoganybay]

Its extremely hard isn't it to try & piece it all together - as a homebred 8 year old mare youd think she should be all tickety boo but then you seemed to have ongoing problems a few weeks into owning her which wouldn't really fit with incident in August - its such a steep learning curve isn't it & not a cheap one at that! Then again I have recently read somewhere of a huge percentage of foals being born with ulcers! so what hope is there!! Minefield - good luck

I know, everything was absolutely 100% when I got her and I felt a little overwhelmed when things were going wrong so early on.

Part of me thinks my earlier issues could be partnership related, but another thinks she may have some pain then. The incident in August might be nothing to do with it, or could have made things worse to the point of the bolting & bucking.

I guess, time will tell and starting back really slowly will be the best way forward whether it is partnership or pain. Lots of ground work, long reining etc will help her physically as well as our bond/trust.

 

[bubsqueaks]

I know, everything was absolutely 100% when I got her and I felt a little overwhelmed when things were going wrong so early on.

Part of me thinks my earlier issues could be partnership related, but another thinks she may have some pain then. The incident in August might be nothing to do with it, or could have made things worse to the point of the bolting & bucking.

I guess, time will tell and starting back really slowly will be the best way forward whether it is partnership or pain. Lots of ground work, long reining etc will help her physically as well as our bond/trust.

Ahh hope all goes well - we will be hopefully starting on that long road of ground work, long reining, to see if we can steer our boy in the right ridden direction fingers crossed.

 

[JanetGeorge]

I ahven't been keeping up - a bit flat out with other thngs - but did you ask vet for hind gut ulcer test. It sounds SO much like this is part of problem. The horse vetted sound - something has made existing small problems worse and worse. That is a classic separation anxiety, change of home and perhaps fee and routine - causing hind gut ulcers, Ruling that out as a possible (and treating for it if results are positive) is a hel of a lot cheaper and easier than any of the other possibilities. And you get an almost immediate yes/no - and a treatment plan you KNOW can improve her considerably in a matter of a few weeks.

 

[Mahoganybay]

I ahven't been keeping up - a bit flat out with other thngs - but did you ask vet for hind gut ulcer test. It sounds SO much like this is part of problem. The horse vetted sound - something has made existing small problems worse and worse. That is a classic separation anxiety, change of home and perhaps fee and routine - causing hind gut ulcers, Ruling that out as a possible (and treating for it if results are positive) is a hel of a lot cheaper and easier than any of the other possibilities. And you get an almost immediate yes/no - and a treatment plan you KNOW can improve her considerably in a matter of a few weeks.

I did JanetGeorge and she disregarded it, I suppose I could have insisted and in hindsight I should have done. I will speak to the vet tomorrow.

 

[JanetGeorge]

I did Janet George and she disregarded it, I suppose I could have insisted and in hindsight I should have done. I will speak to the vet tomorrow.

Oh dear - one of the twat vets who do not listen to their clients and humour them! I DO think that is a rather stupid vet - unless she said something like: "Of course we could, but I really do not want to involve you in unnecessary expense." (But then I wouldn't believe ANY vet who said that, lol.)

 

[Mahoganybay]

Just a little update. My girl is coming on well in her rehab, lots of hacking, long reining, groundwork. We have been back to the lady at rehab/sales livery who said she looks like a different horse, more chilled, much softer in her expression etc. Had a long reining session with her and she saw no signs of lameness / changing legs behind in canter etc. But of course, the vets will confirm.

Took her in the school this morning, we are only doing light schooling until she goes back to the vets on the 5th March, no circles but asking for trot on the long side. I worked on this today, and asked her to extend her trot and she offered me canter, so I let her canter on. It felt lovely, balanced and uphill. Smiling from ear to ear. We then went out of a nice relaxed hack / leg stretch with a friend.

I really hope we are on the road to recovery. I don’t want to give up on this. 🤞🤞

 

[Sarahs83]

That’s fab news 👍🏻