Bolting horse..

[dressage.diva]

I have a 4 year old 16.3hh dutch warmblood, have had him for 7 months now. He is a very sharp cookie. When he came to me he was dreadfully schooled but now he is almost ready to start elementary work. I am 18, riding all my life, currently riding at PSG. I have never had a problem with him up until now. The other day I was riding in a huge open arena where i keep him (he has been in there loads of times before) he was so relaxed that my mum said she was going to leave me to school him by myself. I was just doing some shoulder in with him, which we had been practising all week, i swapped my whip into my other hand ( I rarely carry it in my left hand) he was fine, 2 minuets later he took flight and flat out bolted, head in the air, launching himself. I could not gain control, he unfortunately ran into a pole and hit the side (my leg) so i lost balance and flew off (putting me in A&E) Firt thing i thought was his back, i had it checked and it was sore. Very sore. He gets checked every few months by the physio and 2 months before had been 100%. It was in the saddle area that he was sore so we got his saddle re-fitted, his saddle was not fitting properly(was not very obvious) but it was because he had changed shape since we got it fitted before. We also got his teeth looked at (they where fine) My physio said she has seen horses bolt because they are in pain, however if this is what this horse does when something sets him off, this is what he does and there is no stopping it.

He has ran off before (because of a spook) but i have always gained control within a few seconds. And he has been in situations where he could have easily bolted, but has not! However i had changed his bit a few weeks before into a egg-but snaffle, and i don't think this was quite effective enough for a very big and strong horse.

Have you ever heard of horses bolt as a one off due to pain?
Is there any bit suggestions that will give me a bit more control if he goes again?

I have ridden him since and he has been perfect.

Thanks and sorry for the massive essay!

 

[LaurenM]

Not much help but when my gelding used to nap I'd grab the rein close to his mouth and spin him back in the direction we were going. It didn't really matter which bit he was in to be honest.

Hope his back gets better soon

 

[Emsierose]

I rode a horse with very similar (but with lot more often!) 'quirks'. 17.2 dutch warmblood who went very quickly from relaxed and fine to 'rodeo-ing' around the arena without stopping until he hit the first thing that came to him. I have seen horses bolt with pain many of times and so, as similar to you, got his owner to check on teeth, back, saddle, etc, etc, without finding any issues. Lots of people on the yard put it down to him just being naughty, however he was never a naughty horse, he was very sweet and wouldn't try to hurt you. He never felt like he was doing it to get you off. I found him worse when horses or people went out of the yard and although we never did a lot of high-level work with him. I did feel like he was trying to avoid the pressure; as if it was too much for him to take in. Even though he wasn't doing anything major. It's very difficult in these situations! He also did it when spooking, but would recover fairly quickly and could turn easily.
He was always best after periods of time off (for whatever reason) or fresh after a few days after hacking out only. As far as bitting is concerned, he was never in anything more than a loose ring snaffle as I didn't really feel it would make a difference! He is a big and powerful horse and nothing would ever stop him against my strength so I preferred him to just be in his snaffle. He was really bad at shows also which is why I felt it was just too much for him to take in; too much change or pressure. His owner moved house and so yard a little while ago so I don't know what he's like now, and dread to think whose riding him! Everyone's solutions were to tell him off and drive him on in draw reins! Which wound him up even more and pulled his head in as apposed to a relax outline, stretching down. I felt personally he would improve as he matured and was in a consistant routine with consistant rider (whichh he was very much without). He was five/six when I rode him.
I realise this hasn't really helped! But thought I'd share it with you!
Hope everything works out ok.

 

[Tickles]

First things first...
don't worry.

Your horse was in a lot of pain and trying his best for you ALL WEEK (remember he won't find shoulder in as interesting as you... try varying what you practice a little). Finally he 'snapped' and ran away from the pain. That is a very tolerant animal!

When you get back on again (with refitted saddle) remember
- he won't know saddle has been changed, he will be expecting it to hurt
so...
- just do a VERY little bit
then praise/treat him like crazy and get off.

If your leg is up to it (best wishes for that!) you can try some nice ground work (free-school, lunge, long rein, whatever) in the interim so he doesn't associate your time together with only pain.

Personally I'd stick with a gentle bit (you don't want that to hurt him too!) and ditch the whip, especially as he is forward anyway.

No point looking for extra problems when it is clear this one could have a very easy solution (fixing back pain).

 

[dressage.diva]

Thanks..
Yes but if he bolts again i want something with a little more chance of stopping him..

 

[Spudlet]

I'm prepared to be corrected by more experienced people here, but if he's really and truly bolting (as opposed to just running off) then I think you could thread a bit of barb wire through his mouth and it still wouldn't stop him.

 

[Rose Folly]

Are you sure he's not just fed up to the back teeth with schooling, schooling, schooling....? More and more people I know seem now only to school - it must be mind-destroying for the horse.

 

[annaellie]

I think I'll get shot down for this but you open your post saying he is 4 years old and you have had him seven months and when you got him he was dreadfully schooled ??
Have you made a typo on age or if not and prusuming all ok teeth etc have you thought maybe you going to fast IMO to turn a 4 yr old dreadfully schooled into elementary level in seven months is to much

 

[Archangel]

Just from your description I would think sudden excrutiating pain - one of mine did a sudden rush off (downhill on tarmac) and it could easily have turned into a bolt and it took some very tactful riding to stop him without an accident, he was in another place mentally and indeed he was demented with pain, poor lad (later diagnosed with a kissing spine).

The other thing is looking at the age of your horse maybe it all just became too much and he boiled over. A big capable horse like that can try so hard and are so willing they can suddenly get mentally tired when not physically and if pushed at that point can just boil over.

What is your gut feeling? If you think it was pain related I would get the vet out for a look, my horse did not react to people prodding his back, saddlers etc but tried to kill the vet when he went straight to the source of the pain.

A frightening incident for you though and not what you want for a young horse either, hope you find the problem.

 

[Damnation]

My first thought is are you pushing him too hard to soon.

He is a 4 year old, big lad (16.3) and you are already ready to progress to Elementary. He is still maturning physically so make sure he is not sore because of the work he is in and the fact he is still maturing.

Also you have had him 7 months and he wasn't schooled? And in that time he is now at Elementary. Too young too soon is my opinion. 4 years old, unbalanced and akward looking is what I would expect from a 4 year old. Especially a big one.

If he was mine I would get everything checked, lunge/ride for the next week just on a loose rein, getting him to relax then I would turn him a way for a while. Or just hack him out.

Also as people have said if he has truly bolted you would have a hope in hell of stopping him. I knew a true bolter who would literally just gallop around the arena until he ran out of steam' no bit or riding technique will stop him. All you can do is stick on!

 

[xloopylozzax]

ditto the, 'sounds like you've over cooked him'. 4 year olds arent ready for the same intensity of schooling as something older. I would back off with the work, he sounds kind enough having put up with that much in 7 months but he decided to throw the towel in imo. I dont think hes 'ruined' but i do think you will have to continue much slower to stop the risk of it becoming habit.
Hes got his whole life ahead, even just 3 months off isnt gonna set him back a lot in the long run.

 

[dressage.diva]

He is turning five next week, and the reason we have been working him that level is to get him ready for the 5 year old classes. In fact he is behind his education, as i have been told by lots of people, but this is because i prefer the kinder approach. I was hoping to have him ready for the 5 y/o class in two months. Surely these classes would not be designed if they where pushing the horse too far too young? Correct me if i am wrong but every single dressage professional takes their young horses to these. I also work with an Olympic rider- I am sure she would tell me if I was pushing him too fast. I did not want crit, just experience with bolting horses..

 

[amage]

He is turning five next week, and the reason we have been working him that level is to get him ready for the 5 year old classes. In fact he is behind his education, as i have been told by lots of people, but this is because i prefer the kinder approach. I was hoping to have him ready for the 5 y/o class in two months. Surely these classes would not be designed if they where pushing the horse too far too young? Correct me if i am wrong but every single dressage professional takes their young horses to these. I also work with an Olympic rider- I am sure she would tell me if I was pushing him too fast. I did not want crit, just experience with bolting horses..

If he is turning 5 next week then he is 5 as of first of Jan and not a 4 year old. there is no point in saying he is 4 when he's not especially if you are planning on contesting age classes. It was prob just a pain reaction...a true bolt and god himself won't stop them till they decide to pull up. Granted you want to get his schooling up to speed but how much time does he get to cut loose and blow off steam? have you any gallops nearby you could let him have a good blast? And re the age classes actually they are generally designed for the most advanced in the age group and CAN push a horse too far too young. The key is the rider knowing that they have something advanced/developed enough to do age classes or to work them at their own pace and let them arrive at that level when they are good & ready.

 

[Wagtail]

He is turning five next week, and the reason we have been working him that level is to get him ready for the 5 year old classes. In fact he is behind his education, as i have been told by lots of people, but this is because i prefer the kinder approach. I was hoping to have him ready for the 5 y/o class in two months. Surely these classes would not be designed if they where pushing the horse too far too young? Correct me if i am wrong but every single dressage professional takes their young horses to these. I also work with an Olympic rider- I am sure she would tell me if I was pushing him too fast. I did not want crit, just experience with bolting horses..

You have a bit of a superior attitude. Many people would think that working even a nearly 5 year old at elementary level is pretty pressurising for the horse. He is still growing! Just because the majority of dressage people are doing something does not mean it is right for every horse. You should work your horse at a level that suits him, not at a level that every other Tom, Dick and Harry are doing. People were giving their honest advice and trying to suggest why he may have bolted, which is what you asked for.

 

[Spudlet]

Surely your Olympic rider will have lots of experience and be able to help with this issue then.

Obviously, all horses mature at exactly the same pace so it is totally sensible to push them all on to meet set criteria based on their age alone and not their individual stage of development and previous training...

 

[amage]

You have a bit of a superior attitude. Many people would think that working even a nearly 5 year old at elementary level is pretty pressurising for the horse. He is still growing! Just because the majority of dressage people are doing something does not mean it is right for every horse. You should work your horse at a level that suits him, not at a level that every other Tom, Dick and Harry are doing. People were giving their honest advice and trying to suggest why he may have bolted, which is what you asked for.

Here here

 

[Booboos]

It is very common for a horse to run away from pain and what you describe is a typical reaction to a sore back. The shoulder-in movement must have exacerbated the pain and he reacted to that. Ditto the advice above, change the saddle and take it slowly. Unfortunately with all the checks in the world, saddles are still a nightmare!

As for the training, while a lot of people do the young horse classes, about an equal number think they ask too much of the horse too soon. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what other people do though, if the work is too much pressure for your horse then you need to take it more slowly. You won't know either way until you eliminate the physical cause of the problems and see how he comes back into work.

 

[Damnation]

I stand by what I said.
I do not agree with age classes.

You have a big Warmblood, who is probibily still growing and you want to speed up his education for the sake of a horse class??

Having seen young horses go sour from so much schooling at a young age, you need to back off this youngster.

Your trainers horse may be able to take the strain, but yours obviously can't.

You wanted experience with bolting, you got em! If your young, big, still developing horse cannot cope with the workload he may well BOLT.

Let him have an easy few months then try again. You may have a horse with a more relaxed disposition and a better attitude to work.

My ex boss didn't get her horse til he was 10. She spent a year in WALK to build him up and then at the grand old age of 17 he competed at PSG.

 

[skydancer]

It does sound like it was a pain issue and if he hasnt done it since just make sure you have regular back, saddle etc checks. As for the bit nothing will stop a true bolter

 

[kickonchaps]

First things first...
don't worry.

Your horse was in a lot of pain and trying his best for you ALL WEEK (remember he won't find shoulder in as interesting as you... try varying what you practice a little). Finally he 'snapped' and ran away from the pain. That is a very tolerant animal!

When you get back on again (with refitted saddle) remember
- he won't know saddle has been changed, he will be expecting it to hurt
so...
- just do a VERY little bit
then praise/treat him like crazy and get off.

If your leg is up to it (best wishes for that!) you can try some nice ground work (free-school, lunge, long rein, whatever) in the interim so he doesn't associate your time together with only pain.

Personally I'd stick with a gentle bit (you don't want that to hurt him too!) and ditch the whip, especially as he is forward anyway.

No point looking for extra problems when it is clear this one could have a very easy solution (fixing back pain).

This! Looking for a stronger bit to stop your horse bolting is a waste of time if you want a happy, relaxed, confident horse in the long-run - don't fix the symptom, fix the problem! And if taking it slowly means you don't get to do the 5yo classes, do the 6yo classes instead - he'll be ready when he's ready, and not a moment sooner

 

[skydancer]

This! Looking for a stronger bit to stop your horse bolting is a waste of time if you want a happy, relaxed, confident horse in the long-run - don't fix the symptom, fix the problem! And if taking it slowly means you don't get to do the 5yo classes, do the 6yo classes instead - he'll be ready when he's ready, and not a moment sooner

ditto!

 

[dressage.diva]

Yeh OK that is what i was thinking.. If he is not ready, i suppose it is not the end of the world. He seems very happy and chilled so he is defiantly not unhappy with the work, he gets galloped around the fields and jumped for fun ect. Its hard being a young rider with a young horse, so many people push you into what should be the 'right' way. My trainer says I am too soft on him, my parents think its hunky dory, and all i want is a happy horse! He has years ahead of him so i'll take it as it comes.. thanks for advice

 

[missponymad]

I have a 4 year old 16.3hh dutch warmblood, have had him for 7 months now. He is a very sharp cookie. When he came to me he was dreadfully schooled but now he is almost ready to start elementary work. I am 18, riding all my life, currently riding at PSG. I have never had a problem with him up until now. The other day I was riding in a huge open arena where i keep him (he has been in there loads of times before) he was so relaxed that my mum said she was going to leave me to school him by myself. I was just doing some shoulder in with him, which we had been practising all week, i swapped my whip into my other hand ( I rarely carry it in my left hand) he was fine, 2 minuets later he took flight and flat out bolted, head in the air, launching himself. I could not gain control, he unfortunately ran into a pole and hit the side (my leg) so i lost balance and flew off (putting me in A&E) Firt thing i thought was his back, i had it checked and it was sore. Very sore. He gets checked every few months by the physio and 2 months before had been 100%. It was in the saddle area that he was sore so we got his saddle re-fitted, his saddle was not fitting properly(was not very obvious) but it was because he had changed shape since we got it fitted before. We also got his teeth looked at (they where fine) My physio said she has seen horses bolt because they are in pain, however if this is what this horse does when something sets him off, this is what he does and there is no stopping it.

He has ran off before (because of a spook) but i have always gained control within a few seconds. And he has been in situations where he could have easily bolted, but has not! However i had changed his bit a few weeks before into a egg-but snaffle, and i don't think this was quite effective enough for a very big and strong horse.

Have you ever heard of horses bolt as a one off due to pain?
Is there any bit suggestions that will give me a bit more control if he goes again?

I have ridden him since and he has been perfect.

Thanks and sorry for the massive essay!

have you checked if he gets his tongue over the bit and what noseband does he have on if he just has a plain cavason noseband he will lock his jaw and he will just keep going and he wont feel a thing on his mouth

hope his back gets better

 

[Molly'sMama]

Yeh OK that is what i was thinking.. If he is not ready, i suppose it is not the end of the world. He seems very happy and chilled so he is defiantly not unhappy with the work, he gets galloped around the fields and jumped for fun ect. Its hard being a young rider with a young horse, so many people push you into what should be the 'right' way. My trainer says I am too soft on him, my parents think its hunky dory, and all i want is a happy horse! He has years ahead of him so i'll take it as it comes.. thanks for advice

Yes ,it is , I'm a teenager with a 6yo , she was BROKEN at 4 & 1/2 !
Its hard, but you just have to remember slow and steady wins the race! Take him hacking, groom him and let him roll around and be young ,, They'l thank you for it , other wise you'll end up with him thinking WORK when he sees you and problems when he's older. No point at all squeezing it all in ,you'll have years with him yet!! Xxx

 

[missponymad]

Yeh OK that is what i was thinking.. If he is not ready, i suppose it is not the end of the world. He seems very happy and chilled so he is defiantly not unhappy with the work, he gets galloped around the fields and jumped for fun ect. Its hard being a young rider with a young horse, so many people push you into what should be the 'right' way. My trainer says I am too soft on him, my parents think its hunky dory, and all i want is a happy horse! He has years ahead of him so i'll take it as it comes.. thanks for advice

you say he gets galloped around feilds for fun, well maybe he is just used to being galloped around feilds so he thinks that this is what hes meant to do and when you said in your first post that he had his head up he probably wasnt used to being pulled back if hes been encoureged to gallop around the feilds.

 

[JingleTingle]

Hmmmm. its always these big strong youngsters that seem to be pushed on too fast too soon - because they look big, strong and capable dosent mean that mentally they are ready for regimented training does it? Next doors horse might be - but doesnt mean yours is does it?

Personally, bearing in mind I dont know you or the 4 year old in question, I think you may be frying his brain frankly - and he has thrown a (justifiable IMO) wobbly.

Turn him away for the summer - let him roll in the mud and mess around out in the field with his mates - will probably do him far more good than all the physios, different bits, saddle fitters etc. will ever do.Seen it before and they come back into work like saints with a whole new attitude to work.

 

[Charliepony]

I'm sorry but I do agree with what the others have said, too much too young!

I'm 18 and have a big five year old warmblood too, that I hope to do dressage with. I broke him myself (when he was four) and so I know the horse, we have literally only just started arena work, he did all his early schooling on the roads and in the fields, which I think has set him in good stead for the future as he has retained his enthusiasm and is in no way sour. I don't expect him to work to elementary until he is about seven!

There is no way his little mind could wrap around even simple things like shoulder ins, plus I'm not fortunate enough to have a trainer or work for an olympic rider He is sweet but dim, and I don't want to overdo it just because he is honest. Your boy sounds the same. I would rather have a longterm sane and sound horse than a champion five year old. Remember that the best horses at the Spanish Riding School are in their twenties!

 

[Charliepony]

Turn him away for the summer - let him roll in the mud and mess around out in the field with his mates - will probably do him far more good than all the physios, different bits, saddle fitters etc. will ever do.Seen it before and they come back into work like saints with a whole new attitude to work.

Really good idea!! My horses (two ex racers and the warmblood) get december and january off and it seems to do em good! Plus, who wants to ride at that time of the year??? Perhaps something you could consider?

 

[templewood]

Yeh OK that is what i was thinking.. If he is not ready, i suppose it is not the end of the world. He seems very happy and chilled so he is defiantly not unhappy with the work, he gets galloped around the fields and jumped for fun ect. Its hard being a young rider with a young horse, so many people push you into what should be the 'right' way. My trainer says I am too soft on him, my parents think its hunky dory, and all i want is a happy horse! He has years ahead of him so i'll take it as it comes.. thanks for advice

Trainers are OK, but you know your own horse and usually have a gut feeling about what is right, even when you are being told the opposite. Many top dressage horses are burnt out after only a few years according to some statistics I read somewhere. Probably because they are pushed too far, too young. Your young and the horse is young, so what's the rush?