Bone spavin and Tildren

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maddie7

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Quick question. My girl has mild spavin in both hocks. She has had Tildren, vet says it take up to 6 weeks to work. It's 5 weeks today. Took her in the school on Monday, she was stiff as you can imagine after months of no schooling. She was more forward but still seemed to be dragging her back legs. Have you guys had much experience with this?
 
Hi.
My horse had a round of tildren when steroids didn't work.
Whilst he appeared lighter on his hocks after 4 weeks he was still toe dragging. Unfortunately it made zero difference to his soundness after 6 weeks so didn't try it again
 
Thank you. I rode her again tonight, there is no difference at all. I think we are going to have to retire her sadly
 
He had bone spavin in both, spur on navicular joint, resulting back problems from the spavins all at the grand old age of 7. Prob has loads more wrong with him but gave up on that a long time ago.
I tried for about a year to get him right, maxed out the insurance. Tried all sorts of weird treatments!
Eventually I retired him. Heartbroken. He went to live with a group of horses on 15 acres pretty much untouched for a year. I then got a call from the field owner to say he looked bored and very well!! Brought him back into work slowly, remedial shoes etc and he was okay but not great. Retired him again. 6 months later same thing, looked great. This time my new farrier persuaded me to go without shoes (pigeoned toed, always remedial shod all his life) he basically said you will only be hacking why bother with shoes..... Well, nearly 2 years on we haven't looked back!!! He is sound enough for proper hacking, cantering thru fields etc. Trotting on roads!!! He is barefoot, his feet are incredible and he has physio every 6 weeks. I promise you it was a million times worse than I have just outlined but proper turn away, barefoot and reg physio has been a miracle!
The vets don't like coming out to us now as every single one of them has said pts the whole way thru. He has been booked in twice in last 5 yrs but I chickened out!!!
It's been hell tho and a long old slog but we finally have found some luck. He won't jump or compete again but is loads of fun to hack!!
Best of luck. Time and nature are key xx
 
Thank you for that. I think i will take her shoes off as she is doing nothing and it costs £60 a time, she has very good feet too. She is a competition horse though and so I need to get her back to that for me anyway. The vet said he couldn't see why she shouldn't get back to eventing again. She can hack now so i suppose I could sell her as a hack. Sadly i don't have the space to turn her away or the money to send her somewhere!

Its heartbreaking though like you said. I find it so hard emotionally to get a diagnosis get all hopeful then it doesn't work. We've been through hind gut inflammation treatment, retained follicle treatment and now bone spavin. A previous horse had PSD and was sadly put down as I was advised against surgery, he wasn't a happy hacker and got very depressed as a field ornament. I think she may have this!

Its very down about the whole thing tonight, its not doing my mental health any good!
 
Yep I know how you feel. I used to cry myself to sleep at night. Getting a proper diagnosis took a year, 5k in vets fees plus 1k of my own money and 2 weeks at rvc. It ruled my life. I was told so many things before he was finally diagnosed with hock spavins. He even had 3 months box rest in between as they thought it was some kind of tendon strain. Poor horse as that would have made his spavins even worse.
We tried 2 lots of steroid injections, then tildren, then bute and working correctly in hand but nothing worked. He basically broke down.
He was also (supposed to be!) a comp horse but we had one decent year before he broke down. He is miserable as a field ornament too. I bought him for a reasonable amount of money. Used all my life savings, cashed in some shares.
I couldn't loan him as I would be terrified he would start showing signs of discomfort and someone wouldn't pick it up. Plus with his history no one would want him lol!!
I ended up having 2 babies so he actually suits me now but it's fair to say my competing dreams died when he broke down.
You may get there. Mine is one of these unbelievable turn arounds. I'm sure a lot of horses do return to decent work. But for a small minority it just never happens.
I'm pretty sure the whole thing majorly affected my mental health too. It's not good for a person!!!
 
It isn't good for me. I have a one year old now, maybe its a good time to think about number 2 whilst I see what we can do. I still want to compete though. Eventing is what i love, having lessons and learning is why i do it. We'll see i do agree about the shoes though
 
maddie7 said:
Thank you. I rode her again tonight, there is no difference at all. I think we are going to have to retire her sadly
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It can take a number of weeks to work. My horse had three treatments of Tildren in the year that his insurance was valid for.

Ask your vet about fusion with ethanol. It is a very effective treatment which my horse had about 4 years ago now. He went on to SJ, dressage and fun rides and remained sound for a long period (in between other injuries) and is now coming back from an unrelated injury and hock wise is sound. Fusion can be effective in a lot of cases but can take a few months to be really effective - read this link for info http://www.horseandrideruk.com/article.php?id=2414

There is no need to retire her, I am sure there is a lot that can be done for her, like your vet says there is no reason why she cannot go back to jumping so I am not sure why you are being so defeatist about it.
 
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I meant to say, if you get a physio on board she will be able to offer you exercises with the horse to help with his way of going after treatment has taken place. Please don't give up on her until you have spoken to your vet about other options. The fusion my horse had cost £300 for both his hocks to be treated in a procedure which took 1.5hrs from arrival to departure at the vets. The next day picking out his hind feet he was able to lift his foot up so much higher he nearly took my eye out!
 
My horse has spavin in both hocks and has recently had a second course of steroid injections. This time I haven't noticed a difference and he is crossing and catching his back feet again.

I have on both occasions he was injected asked our vet about other options, specifically tildren and ethanol fusion. I was told he wasn't a candidate for tildren and that fusion, although a good outcome, is not achievable in a large number of cases.

Our vet is an experienced and well respected horse vet so I assume he is correct in the case of my horse and the nature of his spavin. Just wondering if anyone else has been told similar and if there are any other options?
 
I would have a look into Osphos, side effects minimal, competition legal, can be repeated every 3 months or as necessary. It is injected into the muscle so can be done at home, costs about £400 per injection.
 
Yes had it and had o effect on horsey after 6 weeks tried again and still no improvement
Sadly we had to have him PTS he hated life in the field

Have heard of some great success stories though
 
MuddyTB said:
I have on both occasions he was injected asked our vet about other options, specifically tildren and ethanol fusion. I was told he wasn't a candidate for tildren and that fusion, although a good outcome, is not achievable in a large number of cases.
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I think what you vet means is if there is communication between the lower hock joint and the top hock joint. This will be highlighted by the use of contrast dye which is injected into the lower hock joint. If the dye goes upwards the procedure cannot be attempted. I think this happens in something like 15% of horses who undergo this procedure.

The paper I have read concludes 'Distal tarsal joint ankylosis with ethanol should be considered a safe and economic treatment in cases of distal tarsal joint OA that fail to show long-term improvement with intra-articular corticosteroid treatment.'
 
LJR said:
I would have a look into Osphos, side effects minimal, competition legal, can be repeated every 3 months or as necessary. It is injected into the muscle so can be done at home, costs about £400 per injection.
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Osphos does the same thing as tildren though? I have no idea if that means that if tildren hasn't worked then osphos won't either though!

Has she only had the tildren OP? no steroid injections for instance?
 
ester said:
Osphos does the same thing as tildren though? I have no idea if that means that if tildren hasn't worked then osphos won't either though!

Has she only had the tildren OP? no steroid injections for instance?
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They are both drugs called Bisphosphonates in the same drug class and they are both used to prevent or slow down bone damage. I think they are different because Osphos is given in the muscle and Tildren through intravenous injection. Osphos is cheaper than Tildren. Tildren cannot be given to horses on bute.
 
My browser won't let me edit my posts, so annoying. I forgot to say that Osphos (pronounced Ozz Fozz)belongs to a class of drug that has been used to treat osteoporosis in humans. The ingredient differs to Tildren slightly and in a trial only 64% of horses given Tildren improved whereas 76% of horses given Osphos improved so Osphos seems to now be the drug of choice. My vet was involved in the first trials of Tildren and I have been quite interested in Osphos as my horse received Tildren years ago for his spavin so have been reading up about Osphos with interest.
 
I have two with mild spavins both doing well after one Tildren treatment and one steroid jab in November .
Both are in their mid teens and have hunted all season .
 
Osphos is a much better drug.
Tildren was abandoned in human use due to higher side effects and poor efficacy, and similar issues in horses have ben seen. I've recently provided expert advice for someone due to her horse developing severe renal failure secondary to tildren. Thankfully he has recovered due to her boss advising the vet on how to do peritoneal dialysis. The veterinary medicines directorate has changed how side effects are reported and included in medicines information to vets as a result of this case.
Osphos is still used in human medicine and has a much better side effect profile. Think i would be going back to the vet or asking for a specialist referral
 
My spavin horse has just had his 3rd set of steroid injections in three years. They are still working, well enough for him to start schooling again after a quiet winter. And he can jump on them, and could have hunted if he hadn't injured his fetlock - hence the quiet winter. So if you haven't tried the steroids then you could give them a shot. They aren't expensive, I have just paid under £200 for both hocks. I was offered tildren by the vet on diagnosis but chose steroids initally as they had fewer side effects. It turned out he never needed tildren. He has turmeric in his feed and a joint supplement, and as much turnout as possible.
There is always hope!
 
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