bone spavin now navicular?

[noblesteed]

Hi all,
my 16 yo andalusian x gelding has had successful treatment for bone spavin in the past year. After steroid injections he was cleared as pretty much sound by the vet just before xmas. He'd been going better than he ever had - just hacking however as I didn't want the stresses of schooling on his legs. He's been lively, forward going and wanting to have a good blast which has been so much fun.
However 2 weeks ago he pulled up lame in one hind foot, vet said prob just a stone bruise. Swelling, pulses etc. Had bute and box rest for a week but vet wanted him in work asap due to the spavin.
Hasn't come sound. Swelling has gone down but lots of heat in heel. Farrier has found no sign of bruising in foot. He knows the horse well and I trust his judgement, he did the remedial work for the spavin. He says navicular changes he's put him in eggbars and has told me to drop the work right down to short walks for now to see how he goes. If there's no improvement in 2 weeks get the vet out again, but he's pretty sure it's navicular.

What's the prognosis for a horse with spavin AND navicular? He needs to work for his hocks but he won't be able to do too much. He also needs road work for hocks but I understand soft ground is better for navicular. He can't go in the school any more either...
What do people think? Can anyone offer any advice?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Would you consider trying a proper BF rehab? He might need to start off in-hand with short distances, but roadwork is good for unshod hooves and I found that smooth tarmac is a kind surface, so you should be able to keep his hocks happy too. Hoof boots are an option if he's unhappy on tarmac in the early days.

 

[Goldenstar]

It's my experience that these two nasties often go hand in hand .
I would do the bf thing if he where mine .

 

[be positive]

I had to read through twice to make sure but it reads as if the farrier has "diagnosed" navicular not your vet, he may well have bony changes to his navicular bone, or other bones within the foot, but without xrays there is no way it can be diagnosed and even then it may be the ligaments that are the primary reason for any lameness.

I would not be panicking yet, it may well be a deep bruise, I had one horse unlevel in front which was suspected to have navicular changes, he xrayed clear, had some time on easy exercise and came right without any intervention, it was probably very deep bruising and could not have been found by the farrier, going barefoot would be useful for the feet and may benefit the hocks now they are doing well.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I had to read through twice to make sure but it reads as if the farrier has "diagnosed" navicular not your vet, he may well have bony changes to his navicular bone, or other bones within the foot, but without xrays there is no way it can be diagnosed and even then it may be the ligaments that are the primary reason for any lameness.

I would not be panicking yet, it may well be a deep bruise, I had one horse unlevel in front which was suspected to have navicular changes, he xrayed clear, had some time on easy exercise and came right without any intervention, it was probably very deep bruising and could not have been found by the farrier, going barefoot would be useful for the feet and may benefit the hocks now they are doing well.

I agree with this in that a farrier cannot diagnose navicular without x rays I would be going back to the vet.

 

[noblesteed]

Cheers guys. Going to get in touch with vet today. I am not convinced as I know 'navicular' is a blanket term for a range of issues. Also need to find out whether my insurance will cover this having just paid out for spavin!

 

[Dan Brown]

Cheers guys. Going to get in touch with vet today. I am not convinced as I know 'navicular' is a blanket term for a range of issues. Also need to find out whether my insurance will cover this having just paid out for spavin!

You are absolutely correct. Navicular Syndrome is not really a diagnosis. It means 'foot pain' but does not specify the cause. It is similar to the term Colic, in that it tells you where the pain is, but gives no useful guidance as to how to treat it.

X-rays are useful for looking at the bony tissues, but even then they have their limitations. For example, they cannot detect bone oedema (an accumulation of fluid in the bone), and even if you see very advanced bone changes on x-ray, you don't know how much soft tissue involvement (and pain) there is.

When a horse blocks out sound to a Palmar Digital (PD) nerve block, an accepted test for 'Navicular Syndrome', there are something like 13-15 different problems that could cause that to happen.

In fact, the only way to truly understand which of all the possible structures in the foot is causing the pain, is an MRI.

 

[PolarSkye]

Cheers guys. Going to get in touch with vet today. I am not convinced as I know 'navicular' is a blanket term for a range of issues. Also need to find out whether my insurance will cover this having just paid out for spavin!

Navicular is indeed a blanket term - and, yes, it does sometimes go hand in hand with spavins/arthritis behind . . . but it IS manageable - there are some peeps on here who can give you great advice wrt going barefoot, etc. The good news is that it's much easier to transition to barefoot behind than in front.

Best of luck.

P

 

[noblesteed]

Thanks guys. Just an update...

I gave horse 2 weeks off after the egg bars shoes were put on, vet fine with this. Swelling has gone completely. Horse is field sound.
ROde out in walk 10 mins up the road and back on Saturday and horse was fine, tried a few trot strides and he was really lively, comfortable etc.
Did the same thing Sunday and I think he was not quite sound. I have stuck him back out in the field awaiting the vet.

He has normal pulses, no swelling etc. No physical sign of pain other than heat in his heel. And not moving 'quite right'... Argh bloody horses!!!

 

[Ronalda]

Please re-read above answers.

You cannot fix a navicular problem with a bar shoe.

 

[Dan Brown]

Which really goes to show that without the proper diagnostics it is impossible to know what the problem really is.

 

[noblesteed]

Yep vet wants to start with nerve blocks and go from there... He is happy with the eggbar/rolled toe/lateral extension/wedges that my farrier has concocted...

In terms of bf - how does that affect horses with spavin? As horse has had remedial shoeing for a year to help the bones to fuse... This has worked in one hock and almost fused the other one.

 

[Gloi]

I know that one of the ponies had spavin and he just had his shoes off and turned away in the field and after a year or so they had fused and he was okay.

 

[ester]

Yep vet wants to start with nerve blocks and go from there... He is happy with the eggbar/rolled toe/lateral extension/wedges that my farrier has concocted...

In terms of bf - how does that affect horses with spavin? As horse has had remedial shoeing for a year to help the bones to fuse... This has worked in one hock and almost fused the other one.

Presumably the horse isn't that happy with the concoction if he hasn't come sound. The trouble with them too is that they will likely cause more atrophy of the palmar hoof.

Fwiw barefoot is often really good for horses with spavin as they generate more support than they ever can in shoes.

I am surprised that the vet was happy to put quite such interesting shoes on without working off x-rays too tbh and I do think you need to get a proper work up on this new problem and then make a decision on how to proceed though I would be taking shoes off for pretty much any hoof problem these days.