Bone Spavin? Or overthinking?

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Jsye

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Hi all - I need some opinions.
Firstly I have the vet booked for this week for injections anyway before anyone tells me I need the vet out haha.

Basically, the last week or so I've noticed odd things with my horse. Such as when turning a tight circle he will sometimes cross his hind leg over (as expected) however he sometimes just 'side steps' rather than cross over.
He can struggle with his canter leads and going disunited when on the lunge, but usually will sort himself out and correct the lead. Also when I've been riding I need to go down a hill to get off the yard - he always walks very slowly as if being over cautious. Going back up the same hill he feels like he is struggling.

I've noticed this more so this week as he's had his feet trimmed on Monday and at first thought maybe the farrier took too much off (he's been barefoot for about 6months after being a serial shoe puller) and he was just footy, so on went his boots.

I dont know, he doesn't look lame behind but then again it might be bilateral. I just think there is something going on - I've read about bone spavin quite a bit and have now convinced myself it's that :-(

Since I've had him he's ALWAYS been a lazy, chilled out boy. Maybe i've just not noticed this for so long cos i thought that was 'how he always is'. Im going to feel awful if he does have something like bone spavin :-(

Anyone had any similar scenarios and can offer some possible advice?

Thanks for reading
 
Just had mine diagnosed with bone spavin in both hocks.
It started off with going disunited in canter - though he had been doing this as an evasion a couple of years ago (he's a clever monkey) I had schooled it out of him and he was working well. He just started doing it again late this autumn in the stubble fields - again I put it down to laziness as like yours he's always been fairly lazy and chilled! He's never been great on hill either for that matter! Then I noticed he had worn down one hind shoe more than the other. Farrier advised me to get the vet out as he suspected spavin. He was also 'not quite right' ridden in turns/circles but only to the left - falling in and needing a lot of support. I thought it was a schooling issue until the uneven shoe wear started (makes me feel like such a meanie now for working him!).
Anyway the vet came out and did flexion tests on his hind legs and he trotted up lame but worse in one leg. The next step was off to the horsepital for xrays which confirmed the diagnosis, spavin in both hocks. By the time he went to horsepital (a week or so later) he was visibly lame though. As he's insured he'll be getting whatever treatment he needs.
I think it came on quite fast with mine, in the space of a month to the point where he was lame, so I was surprised when the vet said it was moderately advanced and there were bone spurs growing. But apparently it's pretty symptomless in the early stages.
Your horse isn't lame but as you have your doubts you should get the vet to do a flexion test. You know your horse best - and it's good to catch these things early.
Hope it goes well.
 
Okay, had the vet out today. I was quite shocked with what he told me.
Basically he thinks he's got some lami in his front hooves. Which threw me for six as i thought it was his hinds.

I'm not confident with his diagnosis. Firstly my horse is (newly)barefoot and still has quite flat soles and needs boots to be ridden out however is okay on the school surface. I told him about this yet he watched him trot up barefoot and commented on the footiness.

He then asked to see him lunged, got to the outdoor school, vet felt his hooves and felt for pulse and said actually we'll just pop him back. He's now applied frog supports and told me to box rest and bute for a week and get an appointment arranged for blood tests next Monday.

Surely he should have took into consideration that he is newly barefoot and still has soft-ish soles and so will therefore be footy without boots and not resorted straight to a lami suspicion diagnosis?

Any thoughts?
 
Plan is box rest for a week with bute and has also applied frog supports.
He wants me to book another appointment for next week to take blood samples and reasses him after a week to see if he has improved at all in a week.

This is all very hard for me to take in as he has only hay, and for feed fast fibre and light chaff. He goes out 3 times a week into a field which is almost bare and I ride/ exercise 6 days a week.

I always thought with lami that they wouldn't cross the front legs over if they were painful? He does this and pivots on his back end instead.

Bloody horses! Got me worries sick :(
 
I would think the vet thinks that all four feet are affected .
Horses can get lami from concussion I think this may be what the vet fears may have happened .
Has he put frog supports on all four ?
 
He has just applied them to the fronts - never once mentioned the backs.
He's been barefoot for around 6 months so concussion lami would be very concerning considering I never hammer him over hard surfaces.

He wants to blood test for cushings and EMS.

He also said 'it might not even be lami' so I'm a little unconvinced. Think I might ask for the head vet to come and take a look at him next week after this week of box rest, then maybe look at getting him shod again to see if it makes a difference.
 
I think a Cushing and EMS test is a good idea.
Best not to shoe until you know what you are dealing with.
Post and let us know how you get on.
 
Just to throw another spanner in the works, my friend noticed he's got a bit of mud fever on his hind legs. Hard to spot as the scabs are hidden underneath his coat, she only noticed as her horse gets mud fever even in summer and she's spent years dealing with it.

Bit shocked that the vet also didn't notice this.
 
Jsye said:
Hi all - I need some opinions.
- I've read about bone spavin quite a bit and have now convinced myself it's that :-(
Anyone had any similar scenarios and can offer some possible advice?

Thanks for reading
Click to expand...

Panic not! If it is bone spavin then depending on the severity it is easily treated.
My horse had it on both hinds. He had three lots of tildren but it didn't help that much so he had fusion using ethanol (an injection of alcohol into the hock) and it kills the nerves immediately.

Bailey was diagnosed at age 8 and I though my world had ended! But really I was just being daft as he has done jumping, dressage, XC even three three day events!! Now he is 16 and has never looked so sound and fit and we do dressage and jumping comps until he got injured in June 2012 on a weekly basis.

But if I could replay the whole thing I would DEFINETELY go with fusion with alchol over tildren and joint injections, if your horse is suitable (and this is tested by Xray of contrast dye into the hock) thenaround £300 for both hocks and job done.

.....now do you feel a bit better??... :)

I have to say though, the crossing of the hind legs also sounds a bit weird.
 
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applecart14 said:
Panic not! If it is bone spavin then depending on the severity it is easily treated.
My horse had it on both hinds. He had three lots of tildren but it didn't help that much so he had fusion using ethanol (an injection of alcohol into the hock) and it kills the nerves immediately.

Bailey was diagnosed at age 8 and I though my world had ended! But really I was just being daft as he has done jumping, dressage, XC even three three day events!! Now he is 16 and has never looked so sound and fit and we do dressage and jumping comps until he got injured in June 2012 on a weekly basis.

But if I could replay the whole thing I would DEFINETELY go with fusion with alchol over tildren and joint injections, if your horse is suitable (and this is tested by Xray of contrast dye into the hock) thenaround £300 for both hocks and job done.

.....now do you feel a bit better??... :)

I have to say though, the crossing of the hind legs also sounds a bit weird.
Click to expand...

This makes me feel better if he does have spavin! Thank you applecart! Everything i read was so doom and gloom! However the vet paid no attention to his hind legs and thinks he has lami..
He's booked in for next Tuesday for blood tests with a different vet from the practice so I'll be asking him again as I feel the last vet completely ignored everything I told him about my horse and jumped straight in at lami - which no one else on the farm or my farrier agrees with. I'm still following the vets lami advice of box rest but i honestly don't think he has laminitis.

I do however think there may be something else going on.
 
What does your farrier think? Having had experience of lami I always ask my farrier before the vet. Your farrier should have noticed signs of lami when he last did the horse. Obviously treat it as lami but can you ask the farrier to come out and confirm?
 
My boy had the exact same symptoms, he has osteoarthritis in his hocks. So now he gets biannual hock injections and is as good as gold. However they are costly :/ FYI whatever you do don't waste your money on oral supplements, they have never been proven to be effective.
 
My farrier has told me he has not got laminitis.

Hes a 16.3hh TB, 9 years old. No fat pads, bit of a belly but ribs can be felt. No crest, will happily let you pick each front leg up and rest on the other. No laminitic stance and haven't noticed any changes in himself. He gets fed hay, goes out in a bare field 3x a week and his feed consists of baileys light chaff with fast fibre. Recently started him on turmeric too.

I'm going to question the vet when they arrive on Tuesday before they take blood - don't want to be paying for unecessary blood tests when he doesn't have laminitis.

Considering changing vet practices - so far the vet has ignored what I have told him about his feet (currently trying to BF rehab) and ignored my concerns about his hind legs jumping straight to the lami conclusion.

Many people telling me they are seeing £££ signs rather than taking into consideration the fact that i know my horse - he is footy because he has thin soles (this is what my farrier has told me) not because of laminitis.
 
Jsye said:
My farrier has told me he has not got laminitis
Click to expand...

Hi again

Does your horse end up cantering disunited behind? (spavin horses find it difficult to maintain correct canter often ending up disunited).
If you trot him on tarmac/concrete can you see sparks flying of his shoes or see menage surface being fluffed into the air when he drags his toes behind? (my horse was dreadful, sparks were always flying off his o/h)
Does he have problems tracking up? (Spavin horses can't track up very well)
Is he worse with a flexion test? (this hurts the horses hock joint if it has spavin, therefore they appear lame for a few strides)
Does he lose impulsion when ridden in the school? (they cannot push off easily with their hocks)
Does he lack enthusiasm for tasks he usually loves like jumping/cantering across fields? Does he appear to be lame behind? (again they can't use their hocks to push off, and cantering over hard ground can hurt their hocks)
Does he often explode on the lunge? (this is because you are asking them to use themselves more so a spavin horse will hurt and therefore be problematic to lunge).

Nearly all of these applied to my horse who had (still has) spavin. But he doesn't do any of these things anymore due to the ethanol fusion.

If you can answer yes to more than one of these then I would be questionning spavin.

here is the best link to fusion I can find :http://www.horseandrideruk.com/article.php?id=2414
 
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He frequently goes disunited on the lunge, more so on one rein than the other. He's currently not shod behind so can't say about the sparks! I do remember one remark by a lady saying he was dragging a toe behind though this has only been mentioned once by one person.

He tracks up in walk but not usually in trot. He will lunge okay, sometimes does start bucking and 'running away' in canter, again getting his leads wrong and struggling to change behind without bucking/coming back to trot and going again. He hasn't been flexion tested yet as the vet decided he had lami not something in the back end .. will ask the other vet on tuesday to try this though!

I'd also describe him as slightly lazy. He prefers a slow pace and I've always just thought thats how he is, but maybe its due to having possible spavin in his hocks. The main thing I've noticed about him which makes me think there is definitely something going on is his turning on a tight circle. He side steps rather than crossing the back legs and is a lot slower doing so than other horses. I watched a video on youtube comparing a sound horse to a spavin horse and this seemed to correlate with my lad.

Did bute do anything for your horse? I'm just thinking that when mine's off box rest for 'lami' i may give him a bute and ride him to see if he feels any different (all dependent whether bute works for spavin?)
I've started him on turmeric as i've heard that in some cases it can ease the pain of arthritis. Fingers crossed i get some real answers from the vet on tuesday.
 
I would not start him on any thing like tumeric until you have diagnosis as it could muddy the waters .
Bute or Danilon usually works well on bone spavins but then it usually works well on foot pain and a lot of other pain so a bute trial may not help you a lot ATM .
I think you need a vet to work him up after the box rest is over a different one I think.
 
Ok guys - bloods are back.
EMS test has come back negative with a very low reading which is great.
However the cushings test reading came back at 96 which isn't extremely high but obviously a sign something is wrong.

I'll be starting him on prascend as soon as the tablets arrive. He has also had shoes put back on for now whilst everything else is addressed.
 
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