Bone spavin - where do I go from here?

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Mitchyden

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I have posted on here before about my mare Zara but to recap :

Zara went lame in October last year and was diagnosed with bone spavin. Two steroid injections and two lots of Tildren and she's still as lame as before.

About four weeks ago we tried the final option - Ethyl Alcohol injected into the hock to fuse the joint. She should have come sound immediately as it deadens the nerve endings and I was meant to start riding her after three weeks.

Three weeks after the treatment and she hadn't gone at all sound so I gave her one bute twice a day. After four days she went from being 4/10ths lame to 1/10th lame so I started riding her. 15 mins the first day, 20 the second and 25 today. Tonight she is back to 4/10ths lame!

I know I need to speak to my vet but I spoke to her last week and she said she'll have to come out and see Zara - Why? It will cost me £70 for her to tell me she's lame! There is nothing more that can be done and to be honest, I can't afford it as I am way over my £5,000 insurance limit already.

I need to make a decision about her as I'm not sure whether keeping a horse as a field ornament that is 4/10ths lame is fair. She seems happy in herself to walk about and is always galloping with the others so I'm assuming that the pain is bearable.

On top of all of this is that she is a chronic sweet itch sufferer and spends the whole of the summer wrapped up in a boett and smoothered in lotions and potions. She still rubs her face raw and is permanently biting at her udder area to itch.

To look at she seems happy enough but she is quite a tough little horse so I don't know how awful her life is.

Any suggestions?
 
Take a deep breath ....... Horses injected with ethanol can take up to a year to come right, if at all. It is not an instant fix. All the ethanol has done is soften the hock bones, so that they can rub together and fuse more quickly. This takes time, Mine had hers injected with ethanol 2 weeks ago, I'm certainly not expecting soundness if any, until a years time and any horses that have had this will never pass a vetting flexion test. My vet doesn't want to see mine for 2 months. Yes, it might kill off nerve ending, immediately, but not all of them, just about 15% - more nerve endings will die over time - it's all time, that's all . Bute and do lots of straight line hacking with solid 10 min trots.
 
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With the possibility of imminent alcohol injections, I wondered how you both were getting on post injections.
Mitchyden- was she still on bute 2xday when she went back to 4/10 lame?
Achinghips- is that true about the flexion test? never thought about that. but if the lower joints have fused there should be no pain anymore, and flexion tests would ok... wouldn't they?
 
happy_talk - Unfortunately, yes she was still on two bute a day and lame.

Achinghips - I know I need to work her but there is no way I can trot a horse that is 4/10ths lame! I upped her bute to two last night and two this morning and she's still hopping. Surely she shouldn't be in this much pain on four bute a day - she should be as high as a kite!!
 
Happytalk - they will still be stiff and so not pass flexion, even though out of pain, their gait will always be affected to some degree.

4 bute a day is crazy!
Mine was 4/10 and 3/10 bilaterally lame. Vet has told me to work her for up to an hour a day with 3 ten minute trot intervals and bute, where necessary, she's on 1 a day.
All must be straight line hacking - no corners/curves.

Where did you get the 4/10th lame diagnosis? It is normal to work through this level of lameness after ethanol injections, supplemented by bute.
 
Achinghips - Is your horse still 4/10ths lame even with bute because if so, I don't feel so bad? Zara seems ok in walk if just a slightly bit short on her left hind.

Its just so confusing as your vet and mine have totally different approaches to this treatment. Mine told me that she should go completely sound as the alcohol deadens all nerve endings whereas yours said different. She said she would then probably start to go lame about 4 - 5 months after the injection as the nerve endings started to come back to life.

I've tried her on four bute a day to see if she goes any sounder, if she doesn't after a couple of days I'm going to knock her back to one a day to see if there's any difference. If not, then she can stay on one a day.

One thing our vets do agree on, is that it will take a year before you know if its worked and the horse is hopefully sound.

You have given me a bit more hope now with yours being this lame as well. I just have issues riding a lame horse as I don't want to hurt her anymore.

By the way, it was the vet that said she was 4/10ths lame.
 
I really dont know if she's still 4/10th lame, 3/10th in other. Vet doesn't want to see her again until mid July when he'll do another lameness workup.

My vet has done 36 of these ethanol injections (Cambs Univ teaching school vet). He said out of the 36, 2 didn't respond to treatment and he feels the smaller ponies in more advanced cases of osteo don't respond as well as the larger horses inearly osteo.
 
i didnt have the ethanol injections into my pony but another type of surgery. His operation was 2 weeks ago tomorrow. Hes now on complete box rest for another week (hes gone into a small pen in the field now bandages and staples are removed) when he can start walking for 10mins a day and the gradually move upto 60 minutes of walking over 6 weeks. Hes lookng amazing at the moment and hes just on 1 bute a day which I will stop soon.
its interesting in the difference between the recovery from these 2 surgerys. They seem to be completely differetnt
 
Hello
Took a look at the journals and currently there is only one peer reviewed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16649921

I really don't think that seeing the same degree of lameness is that unexpected. I think the point of this treatment as composed to others is that you don't see additional pain caused by the treatment (which you do in surgical and especially chemical arthrodesis).

This study showed 50% fusion at 4 months and 94% at 1 year.

Not sure what their post-treatment regimen was as I haven't the time to locate the paper and check! But your vet should have read this paper and therefore know.

Anyway - my point is - DON'T PANIC!
Keep going and fingers crossed she'll be in the 94% (better than surgical which is only 70%)!
 
My mare had this diagnosis some five years ago,vet said keep on road working regularly and eventually things will solve themselves..oh and never to keep her stabled ,better out and moving. Here we are now,lovely free hind stride,have patience!
 
yeas ago vets would have given bute and you would have been told to keep working them by hacking out and over a few months the spavin would have settled, i am not sure i would put mine through all the injections into joints etc could they not then be at risk of infection into the joint??
think i would just do light work for a few months and see what happens, they will fuse on their own without all the drugs:confused:
 
unfortunately they do not always fuse and you can get osteophytes that grow around the joint to help 'stabilise' it which can interfer with other structures.
horses also adapt their movement which can cause tendon/lig/back trouble as well as front leg problems as they shift more weight onto the front end (this can cause a lot of trouble) - therefore you want to rectify earlier than later

the surgery or drugs help stimulate bone formation. The drugs are local and therefore unlike bute shouldn't cause any systemic issues - and they deal directly with the problem. There are always risks of infection, however joint injections are pretty routine for a good horse vet so the risk should be very low.

once both sides are fused the horse is 'sound' however this is because both sides are equally restricted and there is no pain. gait is still altered due to the restriction and they can remain reluctant to work from behind (either due to habit or the restriction)
some are luckier than others - fingers crossed for zara (I'm sure she'll be back to endurance)
 
aran said:
unfortunately they do not always fuse and you can get osteophytes that grow around the joint to help 'stabilise' it which can interfer with other structures.
horses also adapt their movement which can cause tendon/lig/back trouble as well as front leg problems as they shift more weight onto the front end (this can cause a lot of trouble) - therefore you want to rectify earlier than later

the surgery or drugs help stimulate bone formation. The drugs are local and therefore unlike bute shouldn't cause any systemic issues - and they deal directly with the problem. There are always risks of infection, however joint injections are pretty routine for a good horse vet so the risk should be very low.

once both sides are fused the horse is 'sound' however this is because both sides are equally restricted and there is no pain. gait is still altered due to the restriction and they can remain reluctant to work from behind (either due to habit or the restriction)
some are luckier than others - fingers crossed for zara (I'm sure she'll be back to endurance)
Click to expand...

THIS^^

I had to get my mares hocks done, her back was getting sooo sore, it was more of a problem than her hocks. If left, the resultant off balance issues would have caused more problems still
 
Hi all,

I know this thread is quite old now but I was wondering how those who had the alcohol fusion injection treatment are getting on now after a bit of time? How successful the treatment seems to have been and whether you have had to have repeat injections or other treatments/side effects?
 
Achinghips said:
Take a deep breath ....... Horses injected with ethanol can take up to a year to come right, if at all. It is not an instant fix. Yes, it might kill off nerve ending, immediately, but not all of them, just about 15% - more nerve endings will die over time - it's all time, that's all . Bute and do lots of straight line hacking with solid 10 min trots.
Click to expand...


I thought all the nerve endings were killed immediately? That is really interesting only 15%. I have always suspected that the nerves will one day grow back but I don't suppose it will matter once fusion has taken place and stabilised the joint.

My horse had this fusion with ethanol in January this year as he was over compensating from his off hind bone spavin leg onto his near fore which had a supensory ligament sprain. The fusion kind of killed two birds with one stone so to speak.

He has gone from strength to strength since the fusion although a vet has recently told my friend who had her horse done a few weeks before mine that it can take up to two years for fusion to take place. He is jumping better than ever (in competition riders I describe how he knocked me out on Saturday as he jumped me out of the saddle!).

I am really suprised to see that there are more people that have been offered this treatment for their horse. Yes Tildren can be effective, but I understood that fusion using ethanol is quicker, safer and more effective. However its also cheaper, so maybe that's why the vets don't recommend fusion with ethanol until the Tildren route has been explored?? Or is that me just being cynical?

I have noticed that my horse seems to lack the ability to be able to extend into a medium trot which he used to do so well previous to the fusion, I'm not sure if its because he finds it harder, or can't manage it as well which would seem a little contradictory given the fact that his jumping has improved so well as he can use his hocks without pain.
 
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