Bonfire night should be banned

cremedemonthe said:
I think you were extremely calm, I would have wanted to kill him, can't believe that some people are THAT stupid!
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Ooh, I can! When I moved onto the farm I'm on I enquired about fireworks and was told they never had them. Smashing, being the owner of a horse who can't stand anything that flashes or bangs. A couple of years later, with no warning at all they decided to have a party in the field right beside their own horses and upwind of the haybarn. Luckily I'd moved to a stable at the other end of the yard but my poor horse still did her fruit. As it is, they use Bonfire Night as a good excuse to burn off a mountain or rubbish every year and it is sited about 40 feet behind the stables. In the morning we sweep up the piles of semi-burned ash from outside the stables. Needless to say I always pray for a wet night with the wind coming from the east.
 
fatpiggy said:
As it is, they use Bonfire Night as a good excuse to burn off a mountain or rubbish every year and it is sited about 40 feet behind the stables. In the morning we sweep up the piles of semi-burned ash from outside the stables. Needless to say I always pray for a wet night with the wind coming from the east.
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I think I'd be spending that night camped outside the stables with a hosepipe at the ready. :mad:
 
Ban fireworks on sale to the public, only have them at organised and licenced events so we all know when it is going to happen,it's lunchtime here (12.34pm) and one very loud aerial bomb has just gone off close outside in daylight hours causing my dog to leap out of his bed and run, he is now under my bed shaking, these mindless idiots just don't realise the stress and misery than can cause and if you point it out to them they just couldn't give a ******. I try taking the dog out in the daytime to avoid night time when you think the fireworks will start and this happens, they let them off during the day and right up to 2 am, it's NOT funny.
 
cremedemonthe said:
Ban fireworks on sale to the public, only have them at organised and licenced events so we all know when it is going to happen,it's lunchtime here (12.34pm) and one very loud aerial bomb has just gone off close outside in daylight hours causing my dog to leap out of his bed and run, he is now under my bed shaking, these mindless idiots just don't realise the stress and misery than can cause and if you point it out to them they just couldn't give a ******. I try taking the dog out in the daytime to avoid night time when you think the fireworks will start and this happens, they let them off during the day and right up to 2 am, it's NOT funny.
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I totally agree - the little bleeders start letting them off as soon as they come out of school in my experience (so much for the age limits for buying fireworks :( ) but as somebody pointed out to me the other day, half the fireworks have been stolen not sold so how do you stop that? I used to work with someone who was a qualified solicitor and her boyfriend was a fireman but that didn't stop them putting a catherine wheel that his father had "acquired" from the back of lorry, on their garden fence. Problem was it was a commercial display sized one and it took out two 6 foot fence panels when it went off.
 
My horses are fine with them.

Their field is at the back of a council estate and there are fireworks every year. I just leccy fence the field in half so that they are not near the road in case some idiot teenagers decide to throw fireworks at them.

I've kept horses there for about 4 years now and never had any problems. But we have a lot of low flying army planes going over so mine are pretty much bombproof when it comes to sudden loud noises.

I like bonfire night. To me, it represents the last night of spendng money on the family before the long hard slog of alternate bouts of penny pinching and spending sprees for xmas begins.
 
I too think fireworks shouldn't be sold to the public.

Last night some idiots who live at the top of my field had a mini fireworks display, some of them were soo loud that I was actually scared. My horse was galloping around like a lunatic, so I moved him in to a temporary field and stayed with him until the house in question had turned off all their lights and gone to bed, around 11ish.

I'm not faced with a dilemna, do I bring my horse in, and risk him being an idiot in the stable over bonfire night? or do I walk him for 40 minutes to my old livery yard at 4 o'clock at night, with rush hour traffic and it being dark anyway?

(Any advice appreciated, sorry for thread hijack) :)
 
murphysgirl said:
Seeing Jenhunt's post on halloween set me off.

LETS BAN BONFIRE NIGHT!

Reasons for:

*Thousands of horses, elderly people and other pets are terrified for weeks before it.
*The fall out of firework chemicals are carcogenic
*It is the celebration of the torture of a catholic terrorist. (Wouldn't be allowed if he was muslim)
*The horrendous burns and disfigument inflicted on children on a yearly basis.
*We are not allowed to randomly buy expolsives at any other time of the year, and for good reason!
*Antisocial behaviour is rife.

The list goes on. WHO IS WITH ME ON THIS?
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My horses and dogs aren't terrified today, nor where they yesterday, nor will they be tomorrow. On Saturday night I suspect the dogs will be trembling by the sofa - but they'll get over it. The horses will probably be munching hay and watching the lights with interest. And I haven't noticed any of the elderly people in this village showing any signs of nerves - why would they?

Many household cleaning and construction products are probably carcinogenic if eaten in large quantities - but I don't eat cleaning products, and I don't eat fireworks either.

I don't think of it as celebration of torture, I think of it as a reminder of when our houses of parliament were almost - but not - blown up. It's an interesting point of history that has now evolved to a lovely night out for all the family eating hot dogs and drinking hot toddies and hot chocolate.

Burns and disfigurement of children are caused by idiots, not by fireworks.

We are randomly allowed to buy firelighters, matches, vehicles that can travel at 120 mph, kitchen knives, bottles of bleach, paint stripper, and baseball bats. All of these can cause damage if wielded by the aforementioned idiots in an irresponsible manner.

Fireworks don't cause anti-social behaviour. This is caused by (an incomplete list) poor parenting, unemployment, failed education system, badly supported social welfare system, and people that look-the-other-way. But definitely not caused by fireworks.

So sorry, I'm most definitely not with you on this one.
 
JackyandRosie said:
My horses and dogs aren't terrified today, nor where they yesterday, nor will they be tomorrow. On Saturday night I suspect the dogs will be trembling by the sofa - but they'll get over it. The horses will probably be munching hay and watching the lights with interest. And I haven't noticed any of the elderly people in this village showing any signs of nerves - why would they?

Many household cleaning and construction products are probably carcinogenic if eaten in large quantities - but I don't eat cleaning products, and I don't eat fireworks either.

I don't think of it as celebration of torture, I think of it as a reminder of when our houses of parliament were almost - but not - blown up. It's an interesting point of history that has now evolved to a lovely night out for all the family eating hot dogs and drinking hot toddies and hot chocolate.

Burns and disfigurement of children are caused by idiots, not by fireworks.

We are randomly allowed to buy firelighters, matches, vehicles that can travel at 120 mph, kitchen knives, bottles of bleach, paint stripper, and baseball bats. All of these can cause damage if wielded by the aforementioned idiots in an irresponsible manner.

Fireworks don't cause anti-social behaviour. This is caused by (an incomplete list) poor parenting, unemployment, failed education system, badly supported social welfare system, and people that look-the-other-way. But definitely not caused by fireworks.

So sorry, I'm most definitely not with you on this one.
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Well said.

My vote goes for commonsense and tolerance. The only danger that concerns me is that there will soon be nothing left to ban.

My horses out in the fields will enjoy the firework displays in the village, and yes, the dogs may want to sit on my lap and look worried, but they'll survive. They have a pretty good life, so a little inconvenience isn't the end of the world.
 
Having just renewed shotgun licences, I can safely say there are much more dangerous things in the world than fireworks, obtained with just a small amount more effort...

Bonfire night (IMO) is one of very few events, along with summer village fetes, that actually bring a community together, and I think that is a wonderful thing.
Responsibility is something everyone should have, some people will always lack that, and this is where accidents occur. Banning bonfire night would be ridiculous, and would do nothing to instill responsibility into anyone.
Plus, it is the only time of the year Parkin is on sale. :)
 
I totally agree that fireworks should be banned for the general public. I lost a horse 2 years ago because a stupid neighbour had a display for his wife's 40th birthday, I told him my horses were terrified but he still let them off over our yard causing my poor mare to crash through her stable and injure herself, she died 2 weeks later from stress induced laminitis and I have never forgotton it. I still shudder when November arrives and I am dreading tommorrow and saturday. I will make sure my horses are sedated and out but I will be a nervous wreck until Monday morning. The trouble is that people buy fireworks suitable for public displays and they are now so loud and frightening compared to when I was a child, why would you let the public let off explosives when most of them haven't got the gumption to behave sensibly in any other facet of life. I have signed the petitiion and I am praying for rain over the weekend so the misery is short lived.
 
It's all very well saying its people that are stupid and cause accidents, antisocial throwing of fireworks, etc. but if they were not available to the general public then anyone found mishandling them would be picked up, fined or whatever. You cannot just rely on people behaving sensibly, because the vast majority of people in this country are idiots and care nothing for anyone or anything else other than themselves. That is why we are in the mess we are in, very few people feel a sense of responsibility to others anymore. I know for a fact that old people are very frightened by the loud bangs as I work at a gp surgery and patients tell me they are. Just because you don't have a problem with fireworks does not mean others don't. Public displays are fine but nobody should be allowed to buy them over the counter or over the internet and just let them off when they feel like it.
 
Well said Hollyberry you put that across very well and I totally agree with you, we have had fireworks (VERY loud ones) go off here today at 12.34 pm, dinner time then again at 2.30pm when I was trying to get my dog out for a walk before the idiots let them off again in the dark but only got 100 yards when BANG my dog turned tail and shot back to the car, he was cowering beside it when we caught up with him and he would not get out of the car when we got home.People who haven't got animals who aren't scared of loud bangs just don't realise the stress and sheer misery not only on the animal in question but the stress to the owner who has to watch their pet/horse or whatever being so scared they mess themselves, it's heart breaking.
 
ABC said:
I too think fireworks shouldn't be sold to the public.

Last night some idiots who live at the top of my field had a mini fireworks display, some of them were soo loud that I was actually scared. My horse was galloping around like a lunatic, so I moved him in to a temporary field and stayed with him until the house in question had turned off all their lights and gone to bed, around 11ish.

I'm not faced with a dilemna, do I bring my horse in, and risk him being an idiot in the stable over bonfire night? or do I walk him for 40 minutes to my old livery yard at 4 o'clock at night, with rush hour traffic and it being dark anyway?

(Any advice appreciated, sorry for thread hijack) :)
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Hollyberry I am truly sorry about your loss and what I am about to say is not meant as any criticism or you , or indeed anyone else, but as a reply to ABC as well as reiterating what I have said a few times on this and other threads.



It is all very well to say how awful fireworks are ( and I actually agree they are dangerous) but there ARE things we as horse owners can do to prepare our animals. So ABC there are alternatives to sedation or avoidance ;)

I know it will NOT work for every animal but if anyone has not even tried to habituate their horses / dogs then I think they should not moan about the behaviour of others they disapprove of because its upsetting said horses / dogs. We chose to keep them so imo we owe it to them to do everything we can to help them cope with life around us... that includes traffic of we take them on the road, children playing and dogs barking if we go to built up areas and tractors /cattle if we hack in the country and just about everything if we take them to large agricultural shows :rolleyes:


We know fireworks WILL happen every year, several times a year, its not as if we can avoid them.

suggestions ...

There are cds that play lound bangs / fireworks like ...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Clix-Therap...L7BW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320360562&sr=8-1

you can start with it low then just leave it on for a few hours each day gradually increasing the sound level ......... habituation ( you can decrease the frequency once they are a bit more relaxed about it all ;))

or you can actually counter condition ...... when you play the cd sofly you give the horse / dog something pleasant eg scratches, treats, food, massage - anything pleasant. This way pleasant associations are made to the sounds, the actual mood changes. Slowly increse the level of the noise and keep the pleasant associations up.


My horse has only had I suppose a "normal" amount of stress level to sudden noises like bird scarers / guns etc.... but which has been reduced to the level that she will burst balloons without a blink . We created the state where she seeks to produce the noise to earn a treat ;). It was not done for that, we did it as a demo for a fundraising event but that "trick" could be part of a habituation / desensitisation programme.





as to bonfires ......... well they can get used to almost anything if they see it around enough and everyone else is calm ;)

2011-10-23_14-58-53_502.jpg



My heroine :D

http://www.chariots.org.uk/displayteam.html


People who haven't got animals who aren't scared of loud bangs just don't realise the stress and sheer misery not only on the animal in question but the stress to the owner who has to watch their pet/horse or whatever being so scared they mess themselves, it's heart breaking
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Maybe some animals just naturally habituate themselves to it and you might be right that some owners dont realise .... but as one who has worked with nervous horses and dogs I do know what it is like to see stressed animals. What I cant understand however is anyone who has NOT taken any steps to deal with the issue rather than mask it (not saying it anyone on here as I dont know what steps if any have been taken) and yet wants other people to desist and change their behaviours to accomodate their animals when it is unrealistic that this will happen.
 
horserider said:
The only danger that concerns me is that there will soon be nothing left to ban.
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Yes, what on earth will we do when we have run out of things to ban? :(

When I was a lad a long, long time ago, I used to make fireworks. There were even older books that told you how to do this. All perfectly safe with care and commonsense, and I never harmed anyone or any pets, livestock or property. The trouble is the ingredients are harder to obtain these days (esp. solid oxidising agents). In any case, I don't think such forays into chemistry would be encouraged these days despite the educational value.
 
We would not need to ban anything if people behaved sensibly and took other people into consideration. The trouble is very few people give a damn about anyone else other than themselves, they feel they have a right to do as they please and sod anyone else. This world is very different from when fireworks were first manufactured. Nobody was too bothered by the bangers and rockets years ago and they were only used on bonfire night so everyone could enjoy them safely. Nowadays they are let off for anything and at any time. You can't expect to sedate your animal ad hoc on the offchance and you can't constantly try to desensitise them for what you don't expect. The fireworks these days are not the same, the bangs are louder than a bomb going off, they are bought over the internet and are not suitable for back gardens. If everyone behaved sensibly it would be a joy but the real world has to legislate for idiots and the sort of nasty individual that would do something just for the hell of it. I envy you if you are laid back about it all and your animals do not mind, but for the rest of us it will be a long weekend.
 
team barney said:
However much I hate fireworks I don't think Bonfire night should be banned. Guy Fawkes is one of the few traditions our country is still allowed to celebrate and it would be a shame if it too fell into the clutches of extreme political correctness.

I do however feel that fireworks should not be able to be purchased by the public, there are many professional displays and there is no need for numptys to have access to explosives and let them off randomly days before/after the actual celebrations :p
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This ^^^.



Daisydo said:
As a catholic, although not practising, I love guy Fawkes night, they should only be for public displays though.

And too the comment that it is Protestant country let's not forget that henry the viii only founded the church of England because he wanted his cake and eat it :D. Very enterprising of him lol
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And Church of Scotland...?


Yunalesca said:
I don't think elderly people coun as pets :p

Like ^^^ :D






As a catholic, I say..........
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The man was trying to blow up Parliment, he deserved it.
Besides,I have always seen bonfire night as a celebration of the groups failure,not the treatment of them after.
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That's the spirit! :)



Pedantic said:
Ban the sale to the public and leave it too the professionals.
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Well said.



I watched a smelly drunk buying some fireworks in Lidl yesterday, he was slurring so badly the guy who worked there had to ask him at least 4 times what he'd said. Thank fleck he's not one of my neighbours!

My poor dog is terrified of the bangs, so it's a night in for me with the telly turned up while OH takes the kids to the local display. Must add though that I've pushed the boat out and risked a couple of boxes of sparklers ;)
 
TBH i think its a load of s***e

I dislike Bonfire night - in fact i hate it. I personally feel that only public displays should be allowed, all sale of fireworks to the general public should be banned.

I never understood the point to it - I mean would you really take fifty quid out of your wallet and set fire to it?? Nope thought not, but because it goes woosh, and has pretty colours then its worth it?? stupidity in my mind im afraid.

Money to burn!
 
you can't constantly try to desensitise them for what you don't expect
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but hollyberry the point is that if you desensitise / habituate / countercondition properly you do not have to constantly do it, once it done you might just have to have to do a little reminder now and again.

I am sure that once you got your horse used to clippers you dont need to go through the whole habituation process again each time you get them out ?. Horse will have remembered and you might just have to have them on for a few seconds before (s)he relaxes and you get on with clipping.

Substitiute loads of thing for clipping .....like loading on box (if its not something you do every week), having teeth done etc.



I envy you if you are laid back about it all and your animals do not mind,
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My horse did not come to me relaxed about life in any way shape or form :( ... and its only through hard work over a long period of time that I can now be be "laid back" that these things and other things no longer stress her ;)
 
my poor mare has wet herself tonight she is terrified i went back to check on her before i came to work tonight and she was sweating and hooning round her stable i gave her a calmer and put a lighter rug on her but its going to be even worse tomorrow night as there is a big public display up the road from us when i was younger many years ago they just had fireworks on november 5th now its every bloody night from halloween onwards
 
It is worrying how many peoples horses appear to be so terrified of some bangs and flashing lights. Why are none of mine? Not even my foals care in the slightest about fireworks. I have lots of fields full of horses and when I go out to watch fireworks I see all the horses in all the fields either watching the lights or grazing quietly.
 
My lad was never brilliant on firework night, however, I must admit, I won't be too worried about it this year...

A couple of years ago, I stabled my horse next to an army camp for a while, they used to have "training" every weekend, gun fire, bombs :eek: He hated it at first, but after a couple of sessions, he totally chilled to it...

... I was riding in our outdoor last night, a firework went off right over our heads, all of the other horses went mad!! My lad just stood there and looked at them all as if to say "what's the problem?!"

Hehe! Bless him!! :D

However, for those that do have scared horses, I wish you all the best tonight and tomorrow (and the following few days), and pray your beaties will be ok!! :) It's horrible to see them affraid :(
 
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