Book recommendation(s) for handling a problem dog?

joelb

joelb

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Getting desperate. My sister got a puppy in summer, imo at wrong time and for wrong reason, and emotionally she is not in a good place for training him. He’s a black lab from field lines, only pet, fairly obedient when it suits him, no separation anxiety but of late his recall is hit and miss, he’s become toy possessive and is developing serious nervous aggressive behaviour. Hormones seem really forward as he’s already cocking his leg at 6 months which seems early. Went to vets for castration this morning but they couldn’t/wouldn’t do it; she is to muzzle train him and take him back after Christmas. One of the litter mates is very aggressive but others are fine – I think generally he is confused as he is spoiled rotten and sees himself as top dog (she will sit on floor if he wants to lie on sofa). He goes to dog club once a week where he works well but the nervousness is becoming a problem when out in public etc. Just to add he is a completely different dog when with me and my pack, he knows his place and is very relaxed. I see him as a ticking time bomb for when he is fully developed and 35+ kg. I have urged her to seek 1-2-1 help with his socialisation but I can’t make her do it. I fear she will only recognise his issues once he has bitten someone.

So, could anyone recommend a really good book or two I could get her for Christmas which will help her understand dog behaviour and training? Books aren’t the answer I know but neither is my constant nagging.
 
If you cant make her see there is a problem then no book/trainer in the world will help her.......

I like Control Unleashed - Leslie McDevitt

and

The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson
 
lexiedhb said:
If you cant make her see there is a problem then no book/trainer in the world will help her.......

.......
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I'm pleasantly surprised to find that we're in complete agreement, so far anyway!! :cool:

Once a dog (puppy) establishes the fact that it has the upper hand, then no book written will persuade the owner that correction is necessary. Dogs, generally, are pack animals and need to find their place within the pecking order. Once they're promoted to the point whereby they make the decisions, then it's the human who starts taking the orders, and without correction, THAT is the slipperiest of slopes.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
I'm pleasantly surprised to find that we're in complete agreement, so far anyway!! :cool:

Once a dog (puppy) establishes the fact that it has the upper hand, then no book written will persuade the owner that correction is necessary. Dogs, generally, are pack animals and need to find their place within the pecking order. Once they're promoted to the point whereby they make the decisions, then it's the human who starts taking the orders, and without correction, THAT is the slipperiest of slopes.

Alec.
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In agreement for differing reasons.................... :p
 
Alec Swan said:
I'm pleasantly surprised to find that we're in complete agreement, so far anyway!! :cool:

Once a dog (puppy) establishes the fact that it has the upper hand, then no book written will persuade the owner that correction is necessary. Dogs, generally, are pack animals and need to find their place within the pecking order. Once they're promoted to the point whereby they make the decisions, then it's the human who starts taking the orders, and without correction, THAT is the slipperiest of slopes.

Alec.
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Alec, maybe you should try reading the books Lexi suggested ?
 
You say she goes to dog club once a week which I presume is some sort of training class, if this is so and its a good one then she should be practising in the week. If this is not happening then no book on earth is going to get her motivated to change the dogs behaviour. Would it be possible for her to have a word with the trainer after class and telling them what the problems are and asking how she can sort it.

If she is not going to a training class perhaps rather than buying books could you book her a couple of lessons?

Unfortunately if this is not sorted the poor dog will end up in rescue and if its not a good one his behaviour will get worse, often people say buy a puppy and start with a clean slate but to a lot of people without the commitment these are the very dogs that end up in rescue.
 
Agree, this isn't an issue for a book, it's a training issue. You don't go to class once a week and then not train the dog the rest of the week, that's not how it works.
We train our dogs every day whether we know it or not, through repetition or reinforcement and we get the behaviour that we reinforce.

I know Alec got a bit of stick on the other thread but when we are not strong and consistent with some dogs, they become confused and unbalanced and stressed and that manifests itself in a lot of unwanted behaviours.

'Leadership' not a matter of battering or rolling the dog, it's a matter of being clear about what is supposed to happen and when, what is absolutely not supposed to happen, ever, and making that the norm.
 
Both books I suggested support "leadership", "consistency" , "repetition" etc etc no one is questioning that.

and like i said "If you cant make her see there is a problem then no book/trainer in the world will help her......."
 
Totally get all of this….I did say I know books aren’t the answer. My theory is that if I can get her to recognise he has issues we are half way to getting her help. It’s a very complex situation. My sister is totally and utterly bereft following a tragedy and this dog has become her emotional crutch and imo this is why he is so stressed, he’s simply not mature enough to cope with any of it. I’ve had to back off from him completely as he is way more bonded with me presumably because I offer the strong consistent leadership he craves. She has responded by pandering to every whim in an attempt to get him to like her more. She does practice between classes, every day, but this isn’t an obedience issue and understanding his behaviour is simply beyond her. The trainer is a personal friend of mine and is geared up to help but I can’t drag her on 1-2-1's even though I feel like it.

Dobiegirl don’t worry this dog will never end up in rescue, I have already offered her the purchase price so if she ever accepts she is out of her depth he will simply join my happy little pack which would suit him well as he never puts a foot wrong for me.

lexiedhb thanks for your suggestions - my infinite patience with animals doesn’t extend to people so at least if she doesn’t read the books I can throw them at her :).
 
I do like the Culture Clash in terms of explaining simply how the majority of dogs think and reason and learn - it is a wee bit fluffy in places but there are a few lightbulb moments too.

It sounds as if he is under a lot of her emotional stress as well, as you say, which ultimately is not fair on him and will def explain the lack of recall...a lot of dogs will just ****** off if owner is in a bad mood/angry/stressed, even if they think they are not displaying it outwardly.


Her behaviour affects his behaviour, which affects her behaviour, which affects his behaviour, etc etc etc!
 
I would like to recommend the following books:

Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training by Karen Pryor http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dont-Shoot-...fkmr0&keywords=Kate+Pryor+Don't+shoot+the+dog

The Dog's Mind by Bruce Fogle http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dogs-Mind-P...014&sr=1-1&keywords=bruce+fogle+the+dogs+mind (Some parts of this seems like written for your sister, talking about how weak owners can affect their dogs to become dominant aggressive.)


Maybe not what your sister needs right now, but for anyone else interested in dogs:

Stress, Anxiety and Aggression in Dogs by Anders Hallgren http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stress-Anxi...id=1386865049&sr=1-1&keywords=Anders+Hallgren

The Behavioural Biology of Dogs by Per Jensen (sorry, I only found a link to the Kindle edition) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behavioural...F8&qid=1386864636&sr=1-10&keywords=Per+jensen
 
Does the pups owner see a problem? Or can she not see theres a problem developing because she doesn't WANT to see the problem? The main thing is to make her aware that the pup will turn into a 'problem dog' unless she totally changes her way of handling him. Its not a 'problem dog' book she needs- you can get her as many books as you like, but unless she reads and learns from them theyd be a waste of money! A trainer coming to her home to see the dog in the normal daily environment, and telling her how she could make life better for herself and her dog would be my best idea. Good luck.
 
OP, which classes is the dog going to? I am local to you and there's a few trainers around with weekly classes who I would not want to be anywhere near a problem dog. I can strongly recommend a trainer who specialises in BAT for reactive dogs, she does both one to ones and very closely controlled 'growl classes', I'd be happy to PM you if that could be of any use.
 
FinnishLapphund said:
I would like to recommend the following books:

Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training by Karen Pryor http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dont-Shoot-...fkmr0&keywords=Kate+Pryor+Don't+shoot+the+dog

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I've never really understood the constant clamour for new books, or the latest take on the canine mind or how we can persuade the dog (or in the case of many books, the person), to follow our wishes.

One thing is absolutely certain, and is clearly demonstrable, there is little in this world which is new, when it comes to the vagaries of the mind, be that human or canine, and having "opened" the book which you've mentioned, and I did so in an accepting way, the direction of Ms Pryor's arguments are the same take and in support of the same system which some chose to adopt and others didn't, and many years ago. Having only read the opening few pages, there is nothing that I can see, which is "New" in Ms Pryor's book.

There is little that's "new", unless the subject of the canine mind is approached from the narrow stand point of one who has no formed opinions. Reading such works from the position of little or no practical experience, taking on board the raised points, and THEN refusing to accept that it may be that there are several routes to "killing the cat", and that the learned work which has just been consumed, may well be the short answer to training a dog, and may also be for those with no formed opinions, a logical but short sighted approach.

Similarly, closing one's mind and refusing to consider the views of others, is equally narrow minded. There are many approaches to most of life's challenges and interests, and the problem often arrives when those who when young, through the unconscious approach of trial and error, form a system for themselves, then when they find what works, they tend to stick with it. They learn by their myriad of mistakes that what works for one dog may very well not work for others, and after many years, probably form the view that rather like the person who teaches themselves to drive, the driving instructor rather like the person who writes the "how to" book, may well have a "fits all" approach, and one which is also a little narrow in that it can't cover every possible situation.

Were my opinion to be sought (unlikely though that may be!), then I would advise others to "Read the book", regardless of it's leaning, and then with an open mind go out and train a few dogs and form their own opinions, all the while bearing in mind that just as one swallow doesn't make a summer, then neither does one trained dog make a trainer!

I've never told others that their approach is wrong, because if they get results, then clearly it isn't. What I do find though, is that there's often more than a grain of truth in the old adage which says, that "Those who can 'do', and those who can't, 'teach'". It wont apply to all, I feel sure, but I suspect that the bulk of those who train and compete dogs to National or International levels, are rarely those who write handbooks on the subject. It must be very difficult for those who are of novice standing, having to rely upon books.

I can't open the book, electronically, by Anders Hallgren, but if it's the observant approach which it appears to be, then it may well be of interest, and give food for thought.

There we are, books about training dogs and the psyche of our canine companions; There is little in our world which is genuinely new!

Alec.
 
I've gone to a few seminars (by people who have competed successfully nationally and internationally) and they have all said quite openly 'none of this is new' - two of the better ones started out in horses, interestingly. Same applications!
 
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