border collie wants to lunge/chase cars - success stories please

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Perce

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I have recently (about 6 weeks ago) rehomed a collie. He is 9 months today.
He used to live on a yard so only saw traffic when it drove just inside the gate and stopped. We live in town and he is almost impossible to walk on the pavement as he is very stressed by the cars and attempts to throw himself at them when they pass.

We are at the stage where he usually remains still if I stop when a car is coming and he can just lie down and watch it. Very tense, collie stare!
And I was able to sit on the beach wall for half an hour yesterday and he just sat relatively calmly (after a while) watching everything pass - there is a wide pavement including a cycle track between wall and road. But the moment we move he is so intensely watching and straining at the leash that I literally cannot get his attention . the moment we reach the end of our quiet little lane towards the house he visibly relaxes and looks at me.

He is not brilliant in the car either but has improved dramatically and will now usually sit still while cars pass, occasionally rushing to the side window to watch them.

So I am making progress but yesterday it took me half an hour to do a ten minute walk as each time I walked he raced along the pavement trying to pull me along.

I am going for the positive reward approach but getting no where some sessions as he is so focussed on the cars I am finding it difficult to distract him to be able to praise. He ignores treats wafted under his nose! He is at the early stages of training and being treated simply for looking at me at the moment :-)

I would love to hear some success stories and the strategies used.
Someone has suggested the rattly bottle when he lunges.
I am hoping the more sitting and watching we do calmly the less he will be stressed and need to lunge/chase.
 
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His reaction to the traffic is his herding drive kicking in. You need to give him a different job to focus on during your walks. Can you get him attached to a particular toy? Mine has a tri-ball that he is locked on to. I found this suited him better than treats as he isn't food centred, more people centred. He is a collie but not a border collie though. Oenoke on here has border collies and is very knowledgeable.

I think try to stick with just praising and rewarding for focusing on you or a toy as opposed to the traffic. Can you teach him the "watch me" command?
 
One of mine used to do this when I first got her. Either use distraction tactics, or turn and walk in the opposite direction quickly and with purpose when he goes to lock on.
 
The dog is begging for work. He was designed to collect, lift and gather sheep, and there will be nothing which you can, or should, do to stop that. Generally when dogs display breed characteristics, then to attempt to prevent such natural behaviour, is a waste of time, and in my view you will have to live with the problem.

I once bought in a puppy from Alston in Cumbria, who at 16 weeks would fly at the postman's wheels, and there was no stopping him. I took him to sheep, and though much too young, he stopped, all by himself, and almost immediately.

Alec.
 
Sounds like he needs more mental stimulation? His herding drive is kicking in and he needs something else to focus on.
When my collie was young he would attempt to chase/herd cars sometimes. A short walk would never be as simple as strollng along with a labrador for example. We taught him commands to focus on me, we would stop/start, sit, walk to heel, trot on. Sit & stay/catch up etc. He was rewarded with a tennis ball. He stopped trying to herd very quickly and is fine with cars, passing people etc.

Try a toy? I've not met a collie yet that will prefer a treat over a tennis ball :)
 
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Thanks for replies,

I recognise this is his herding drive. It becomes quite strong when he is in a situation he finds stressful or exciting, and he clearly finds cars racing past both!
I don't want to stop his desire to herd at all times ( I hope to channel it around the horses) but I do feel it is a very dangerous situation with the cars, so I need to find a way to help him work near cars and not become stressed.
I do keep him 'busy' with positive training, and he gets plenty of exercise in a big garden, out on walks (not near roads!) and up at the yard, and I plan to start agility with him too soon, however we do live in a town and ideally I want to be able to walk along the pavement safely with him and my other dog.

I have done lots and lots of reading and googling around this 'problem' and am making slow but steady progress.

His behaviour in the car improved and then went backwards again so I have covered the back windows of my pick up again with towels and he was much calmer this evening on his drive to the yard. I don't want to 'fuel' his wish to chase them.
We are working on the 'watch me' game and will continue to use this at a safe distance from cars and get closer as he gets calmer.
I haven't worked out what toy works for him yet...he seems a real foody! but shows no interest when close to cars. I will work on the toy thing and see if we can find a favourite. I do need to be able to distract him.

I had a bad day yesterday and he was much better today. small steps! I feel walking right next to the busy road is too much for now, so will back track for a while and aim for quieter roads and wider pavements.

Ordered the book 'Control Unleashed' yesterday as has been hugely recommended as being full of ideas too. Anyone else read it?
He is a fabulous boy most of the time but the car thing is a potentially life threatening thing problem so I do want to succeed with this...and I do expect it to be a long slow process....

It's really good to hear success stories though so please feel free to share!
 
Control Unleashed is a fabulous book and covers many of the problems you are facing - lots of it can be transferred to agility training as well when he's ready.

For what it's worth there was a time when I was also saying that I could not gain or keep my dog's attention, that even treats wafted under the nose wouldn't snap her out of a fixation on something, that she was not the slightest bit interested in toys.

It did take a long time - approx six months for a decent watch me, more like two years to be reliable around distractions, in a dog that had no training or socialisation from 0-6 months. But it can be done. :)
 
Just an observation, Perce, your dog sounds just the sort of focused, approaching manic(!), and driven animal that with guidance, and a degree of experience will provide you, his owner with a proper companion. The trick for you will be directing all that obsession and energy, in to what 'You' want. Sheep would be one answer, but as others have suggested, so may other occupations. Certainly your dog needs an outlet for his unspoken passions, and cars may not be the long term answer, as you realise!

It's interesting that you said, somewhere, that when cars are stationary, he shows no interest in them. He wont do, it isn't the car that interests him, but the movement, and he could just as easily transfer his attentions to horses or people, or ducks or anything which allows him to express himself.

'Control unleashed'? I've neither heard of it nor read it, but if it's as good a book as everyone seems to think, then I may find myself a copy. I would hope, that for you, the book isn't just a 'How to' manual, but that it gives you an insight in to understanding what's going on in your dog's bonce, and how from that you may well work out your own answers. I would be genuinely interested to hear how you progress.

Alec.
 
Black cob - thank you. Sounds hopeful. I'd be very happy with 6 months.
Alec, I will keep you updated :-)
I meant to say that he shows less interest when HE is stationary, rather than the car. Although he does ignore stationary or very slow cars. It'scars rushing past that do it. He wants to take up the lie down,head low stalk position, and is more likely to lunge f I am trying to keep him moving.

So today I spent an hour working on this and made some progress. I walked, with lots of circles when he pulled ahead, along our quiet lane and along a bit of a busier road. we sat on a seat for a while until he was still for most cars (heavy louder trucks more scary!) and then even a little bored with them, then did a little walk further to another little lane for some more heal work/training/sit down /Look at me type stuff with treats and praise whenever I got his attention.

I was please with his progress and am hoping once he realizes they are just cars and not scary he will feel less need to chase them away. I am fairly sure it is fear related and that brings out the need to herd or chase off.
I am also quickly getting myself a reputation as that nutty woman with the collie :-)

Towards the end of our session a lady came along with her dog as I was having my second sit down, and he was so pleased to say 'hello' he forgot for a very short time to watch 2 cars!!!
Then my son met us on his way home from school and again he forgot to watch a couple of cars in the excitement of seeing him. Very encouraging, at least some things will distract him. May have to bribe friends to 'meet' me on our walks bearing treats!
So small but really big steps today!
Plan to find a daily time to wander and sit with no pressure & do a little positive training. Will take a book next time as he visibly relaxed when I just sat and did nothing.
 
Yes, Control Unleashed is a really good book, I've used it with my youngest. She started showing signs of trying to chase the cars when she was very young (about 4 months), I used lots of focus exercises and by a year old could walk her down the road without her looking at the cars. What you say you are doing by getting attention at a safe distance and working closer sounds like you are doing the right things, it's just going to take time. My girl has recently shown a big interest in herding my horses and 1 of my cats, I'm currently trying to only let her do it when I tell her she can and call her away at other times, she is now 4 years old. I would love to try her on sheep, her dad works sheep.
IMG_5535_edited-1.jpg
 
The classical reply to 'How old'? Is that the dog needs a leg at each corner, which means four legs, so four years. It is generally, though not always, too late to 'start' at four years, but you clearly have an understanding with your dogs that would ease the path to progress, and looking at your pic, I really do think that you should find someone who has sheep, and who understands 'the collie'.

Your user stuff doesn't seem to tell me where you are. No matter. Where ever you are, there will be 'Triallers'. Find yourself one and allow your dog to see sheep. Be guided by those with experience, and you will be staggered at the process and the progress that you'll make!!

Go on, do it, and let us know how you get on. If I can be of help, then ask.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
The classical reply to 'How old'? Is that the dog needs a leg at each corner, which means four legs, so four years. It is generally, though not always, too late to 'start' at four years, but you clearly have an understanding with your dogs that would ease the path to progress, and looking at your pic, I really do think that you should find someone who has sheep, and who understands 'the collie'.

Your user stuff doesn't seem to tell me where you are. No matter. Where ever you are, there will be 'Triallers'. Find yourself one and allow your dog to see sheep. Be guided by those with experience, and you will be staggered at the process and the progress that you'll make!!

Go on, do it, and let us know how you get on. If I can be of help, then ask.

Alec.
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Thanks, I live in Essex. I have tried to do some training a couple of times in the past, but for 1 reason or another it's been cancelled and I gave up, feeling it was just not meant to be! Wendy Cole lives just down the road to me and I went to watch a sheepdog trial at hers the other week, maybe I'll get in touch and see if I can go and do some training. Star competes at agility and flyball, so she has quite an active life.
 
Oenoke what beautiful dogs.
and thank you, your success with cars is reassuring.
I realize this will be a long slow process.

My Bobby also wishes to herd my horses. Unfortunately two of the three do not wish to be herded! My old mare just smiles with the tolerance of the nanny and lets him do his thing while she munches grass.
Alec, I would love to see some local herding and find out how to work 'with' his herding instincts.
I live in east Devon if anyone knows of someone in the area.

Bless him, he is presently curled up by my feet .He does know how to switch off, I am pleased to report, most of the time.

Really looking forward to my book arriving :-)
 
Hi, you're boy sounds a lot like one of mine. We got Bandit in 2010 he is a blue mearle border collie. We mad lots of mistakes and as a result things weren't easy and we do still have a few issues that we're still trying to work on I.e barking in the car! We got Bandit at 5 weeks old after being reassured he was ready (mistake 1!!) he was from working stock (perhaps mistake 2?)... When we first started walking him he would chase and lunge at EVERYTHING - cars, bikes, motorbikes and even sometimes passing people!! It was a nightmare! He's really good on the lead now though. We didn't have any secret to getting him out of it only perseverance and consistency in our approach. He loves his frisbee and it's likes he's more focused on getting to the field so we can play than anything else.
 
thanks Geminismum - very positive :-)

My book arrived yesterday and I love it! couldn't put it down!
Today we went for another saunter to sit by the road, taking on board some of the 'stuff' I read before I fell asleep on the book last night!
For example I was much calmer in myself and just ignored the traffic at first (or pretended to!)
Today he was much calmer in return and was Looking at me' a lot of the time, and after the first 5 minutes was quick to look at the car then back at me for reassurance. He only lunged at a couple of the bigger ones(he hates the noise particularly) and by the end of our sitting he was looking at me while some of the cars drove past behind him :-)
After half an our of relaxed sitting by the side of the road I even managed a little more relaxed walking. Prior to today the walking has been nearly impossible.
Very pleased with the progress today and really glad I bought the book!
 
I think you seem to making really good progress, our border collie was 3 when we had him from the rescue and has the most lovely nature, but is also a car chaser, I was so pleased with him this week on a visit to Ironbridge he walked down the street and only watched the cars he did not spin, it has taken us nearly 3 years to get to this point!

Collies are very independent minded dogs and the only way is to engage their minds and be very patient and reward the behaviour you want.

You sound to be doing all the right things, hope all continues to go well for you.
 
I think you are doing all the right things, it will just take time and patience. I am fortunate that my collie doesn't get fixated on anything other than specifically groups of runners with vests and numbers on (we see these rarely) For the record he is VERY foody and not interested in toys, they vary so much.

I know what it is like trying to get the 'watch me' command when they seem so disinterested but you will get there. I personally find training them not to pull is a good step towards this as I find when they are pulling they are not paying attention, but this is a general observation rather than collie specific. Also lots of obedience for fun with really good treats. I find my dog loves sandwich ham more than most healthy or dog orientated things but there are things he would love more like warm bits of sausage!

The look at me and reward needs to start off in low pressure situations and be built up according to what the dog can handle before he loses himself. I apply this with a dog I walk who gets obsessive about other dogs, I wouldn't have had a chance if I'd done it when there were other dogs in sight at first but now if the dog is in sight but fairly far away I can get him to focus, it's a very slow work in progress!
 
I have always had collies and adopted my mum's two after she died. Both were very keen to chase cars and a nightmare to take anywhere on the lead at first which was difficult when I had four of them at once. I think my own dogs helped to "educate" the new ones but I also did some work with the new two, both of whom pulled like trains. I am no expert and my main tactic was to change direction every time they pulled. It took a while, but we then had nice polite calm dogs who did not lunge at every passing thing (car/bike/jogger).

We lost the old girl aged nearly 15 at Easter after six years with her and she was a different dog. The younger one is with me now and we are still deciding whether to get a rescue to keep her company. If so, it will almost certainly be a collie...

I do think collies need to keep their brains occupied. The four we have had have all had what we call "obsessive collie disorder" but that can be used to advantage because you can get them to focus totally on something else. Mum's elder dog had a bad habit of chasing joggers and cyclists and a tendency to nip. Taking her out with a ball completely stopped her wish to do it - all she was interested in was the toy. The younger one used to focus on herding the elder and, now that she has gone, is becoming more fixated on toys by the day.
 
Haven't read all the replies but my dog also chases cars and he's not a collie, he's a pug! It's natural for them to chase cars and generally the times he will do it is if he's not been out for a walk the day before and is more distracted. I know they're both different breeds but for me, food distraction works well with him. I would suggest some form of agility to get him using his brain as he sounds like a very bright dog! It might be worth walking him down a street after an agility session to see if being so mentally busy he may not have the urge to chase. Otherwise if it's a stress related thing, definitely do lots of sitting around by a road and let him watch traffic. You flood his senses to the point that seeing another car to by becomes boring.
 
Perce said:
I have recently (about 6 weeks ago) rehomed a collie. He is 9 months today.
He used to live on a yard so only saw traffic when it drove just inside the gate and stopped. We live in town and he is almost impossible to walk on the pavement as he is very stressed by the cars and attempts to throw himself at them when they pass.

We are at the stage where he usually remains still if I stop when a car is coming and he can just lie down and watch it. Very tense, collie stare!
And I was able to sit on the beach wall for half an hour yesterday and he just sat relatively calmly (after a while) watching everything pass - there is a wide pavement including a cycle track between wall and road. But the moment we move he is so intensely watching and straining at the leash that I literally cannot get his attention . the moment we reach the end of our quiet little lane towards the house he visibly relaxes and looks at me.

He is not brilliant in the car either but has improved dramatically and will now usually sit still while cars pass, occasionally rushing to the side window to watch them.

So I am making progress but yesterday it took me half an hour to do a ten minute walk as each time I walked he raced along the pavement trying to pull me along.

I am going for the positive reward approach but getting no where some sessions as he is so focussed on the cars I am finding it difficult to distract him to be able to praise. He ignores treats wafted under his nose! He is at the early stages of training and being treated simply for looking at me at the moment :)

I would love to hear some success stories and the strategies used.
Someone has suggested the rattly bottle when he lunges.
I am hoping the more sitting and watching we do calmly the less he will be stressed and need to lunge/chase.
Click to expand...

Hi perce did you have any success with your problem? I’m currently going through the same problem with my 18month old border collie.
Thanks.
 
Hi jr92, this is an old thread, you may be better starting a new one.

I ask people to get down until their eye level is the same as that of their dog, and stay there on the pavement, close to the road, while a car goes past. It's not pleasant. Especially at night/when headlights are on.
Car chasing is always a self-rewarding behaviour, the dog chases, the car disappears into the distance, job done, you need to redirect the drive somewhere else.

Here is an article I frequently wheel out also, which may be of some use.
https://www.agilitynet.co.uk/training/bordercollie_suekitchen_leewindeatt.html
 
Alec Swan said:
The dog is begging for work. He was designed to collect, lift and gather sheep, and there will be nothing which you can, or should, do to stop that. Generally when dogs display breed characteristics, then to attempt to prevent such natural behaviour, is a waste of time, and in my view you will have to live with the problem.


Alec.
Click to expand...

Not in my experience. My collie used to do it when he was young and it did pass.

Making the cars as much as a non event as you can along with reward based distraction training worked for mine, as well as doing a little bit every day.
 
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