Border Collies..

A

aldato_daz

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Hi all...

I rescued a 2 week old pup approx a year ago and she has bloomed into a gorgeous red and white, what I think to be, a border collie!

I dont work her as I am not in to farming but I was hoping to breed her with a good, well bred working collie IF she is a pure collie herself.

Considering I know absolutely nothing about where she came from how do I go about finding out if she is pure? Do I go to a vet and give blood samples?

If i do get nice pups from her, how much do they sell for considering only one parent is a good working dog? I'm from Northern Ireland so prices for collie pups may be different than those in England.

Thanks for any help!!

Carrie
 
Any reason why you want to breed her particulary?

There are loads of collies who are unwanted nowadays- ive rescued 3 myself and find the poor things are always in rescue centers etc.

They sell for around £80-£120 depending on full pedigree/working parentage although thats in wales not england.
 
thanks for your reply...

If she is not a pure collie I dont think i will breed from her, however, if she is i know that the pups could sell quite well as where I live, the farmers are mad after collies as I have asked around.

I suppose its a bit of extra money and a bit of fun also as I havenever bred dogs before...
 
I Don't mention much about unnecessary breeding on here...but this is the worst excuse for breeding I have read recently...firstly WHY
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...breed from a rescue dog....does that not tell u something....that this dogs own life was uncertain, so why breed more form a dog that was in a rescue situation themselves
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Unless you are desperate for money....Can't u just be happy to keep her as a pet...esp as you know nothing of her past or breeding.
We get hudreds of lovely looking pedigrees through our rescue that we could easily make a quick buck from...the majority with a pedigree....but what would be the point in multyplying from the unwanted themselves
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I see your point CALA but I would like to make it clear that it is not as of I am letting my dog run the streets to breed with any old dog, which would then mean that I could possibly have unwanted puppies as they are mongrels and therefore have to turn to a rescue centre to get rid of them because nobody wants them!

i feel i am doing this systematically, whereby I will only breed her if i find out if she is PURE collie and knowing that i can give good working homes to the collie pups as i have done my research around the area in which i live and have found that there is demand for them!

so returning to my original question...how do i go about finding out if she is pure bred???

again, thank you for your reply and i respect and understand your opinion about rescue dogs as I myself have taken in many unwanted cats and dogs and do feel strongly about people who do not keep an eye on their dogs/cats and let them breed wherever and whenever and do not no get them neutered!!!

thanks

Carrie
 
There is huge demand for HOMES for UNWANTED Collies.... neuter her and forget about breeding out of a RESCUE puppy, it'a Pure Selfish in my opinion, by the way you probably won't get any profit from breeding her as she's from unknown back ground of unknown heiritary of hidden diseases and/or problems that may put people off buying the puppies as they would want a perfectly mobile and healthy collie that could go on for years.


Please think about it VERY carefully,
 
It's no just mongrels that end up in rescue...otherwise why are rescues packed to the brim with pedigrees...inc us
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you say u have taken in rescue and this puppy you also describe as a rescue
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so again...why breed from a rescue...it's impossible to get a clear history of her breeding and parental health problems.

The unwanted/rescue population is not only a result of strays running around breeding either...it's those who purpose breed, without a care in the world...more commonly for money or just for the sake of breeding...because it will be fun or someone happened to compliment the dog whilst out walking
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....hence hy we have so many unwanted dogs.
 
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so returning to my original question...how do i go about finding out if she is pure bred???

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I don't know to be honest; perhaps emailing the ISDS or KC might help you in your quest.
 
CALA...

You have a good point and i understand what you are saying. however, your opinions and views are always going to be very biased whatever I say as you are seeing those problems everyday.

You have all made me think again about breeding her as i now understand the fact that the puppies may not sell at all because of the mothers unknown lineage.

Is there any way at all that you can trace a dogs lineage through a blood sample?

thanks
 
most working collies are not registered and so are untraceable. In my opinion the best collies are the unregistered ones .........farmers don't care about bits of paper, just how good the dog is at working.
 
The problem for you will be that it will be very hard to find out her exact breeding and pedigree - so you probably won't ever know if she is pure collie. Although I do agree she looks like one
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The problem with breeding her is that you won't be able to KC register the puppies (so they will be worth less money anyway) and you also have no idea what health tests (if any) were done on her parents.

Before you breed you should get health tests done on her - particularly hip scoring, becuase you should breed from a BC with a bad hip score
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(cos you don't want to breed pups that might have crippling health problems - especially for a breed that needs to be so active)

Some info on health tests specifically recommended for collieshere
 
I'd never choose to buy a KC registered collie. I prefer ISDS registered collies, and most farmers I know (and have known) all have registered ISDS collies.
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Beware most of the collies in rescue particularly in rural areas are WORKING REJECTS i.e. they are not good enough, so that perfect working home ties them to the railings of the rescue centre or fills them full of lead and dumps them in a hole.

It's not just borders, more and more kelpies and cross kelpies are ending up this way too.

Please don't count on farmers providing a home for life, if a dog doesnt cut it they don't keep it. they can't afford too and a dog to most is a means to an end.

Farmers will be looking for working pedigrees and proven performance back several generations on both sides of a pedigree most of those dogs are not KC reg and even then a lot of the puppies are simply not good enough. Most workers have the added disadvantage of being totally unsuitable for most pet homes so you are really breeding a litter of puppies into a very uncertain future.

If you don't know her breeding it is highly unlikely that the kennel club can help, IF her parents did happen to be registered with them and you have no idea who they there is no way the KC can tell you who her parents are since they do not parentage test dogs. DNA testing for breed is in it's infancy you are probably talking around 10 k to do this work at a private lab if anyone can do it!
 
Hi Karynk

Thanks for your post. The last part of yours really shocked me!! 10k just to see what breed it is???!! Thats shocking!!! Really didnt expect that!

Well thanks everyone for all your comments. Really has made me think about breeding Copper. This is exactly why i posted on Horse&Hound..to hear peoples opinions and get advise!

Thansks again, Carrie x
 
Why breed any bitch when you no little/nothing about her. There are enough lonely dogs which need a home without you addidng to it with more pups.
Whether she is a pure bred Border or not, the fact that you have no background information about her means that people will not be as attracted to her as they may be a Pure Bred KC reg dog.( Not that i'm saying people only want KC dogs etc. )
Why not enjoy this bitch as a pet? My Border has the most incredible bredding, his father was a winner at crufts, but i am happy to enjoy him as a pet and not bring more lives into the world when there are so many more that need help.
Sorry to preach, but i feel quite strongly about this.
 
The reason it costs is that it is not a common test it's even in it's infancy with humans for dogs they would have to do lots of tests on specific DNA from the female and male lines of each breed to find the breed indicators before you can even start looking at individuals to see if they are from that breed.

They can use these family DNA markers in humans at the moment that can point towards ethnicity and points of origin and they have used it in a project to map the origins of North American breeds of horse and compare them with european strains, but unless its a funded research project the costs are huge.

All my horses are DNA tested for parentage as a registration requirement, in that case if you suspected parentage you could easily check the horse against the parents or even the whole database at a cost of course!

I have heard of this being done in dogs that have been sold on and lost their original papers, but as the KC do not require parentage testing in these examples the parents of the dogs had to be tested too to prove they were the parents. So basically if you don't know or suspect the parents then it's a lost cause.
 
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