Bored Baydale "Blether" (credits FigJam for alliteration opportunities) *vids*

Rosiefan said:
Haven't looked at the vids yet (something needs stirring out in the kitchen in a few minutes) but does quirky = naughty? Couldn't agree more about squashed/subdued robot horses - retaining the 'fun' in them is important in my book. I always say about Frodo that he's a glass half full sort of horse and that's the way I like him even though it means he's a bit inconsistent and unpredictable.
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Ooh, don't spoil the dinner T.;) Frodo is still learning about life so maybe the ups and downs you're having are just normal learning experiences, not huge deal-breakers like HH's showjumping.:(
 
OK - have now watched the vids. Nothing wrong with that, he was just letting you know there are things he'd rather be doing (eating comes to mind judging from what you've told us about him in the past). He's only 4 after all :)

eta - now HH and his showjumping was a square peg/round hole issue I think - and that's not fun for anyone involved. Frodo will be fine, he's just a slightly immature person at the mo (this must be true - Rosie told me ;))
 
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FigJam said:
You see- a new alliteration for you already, Kickass Kermit! :D

Seems I have been eating for you today, haven't bloody stopped! :o So will just take a small nibble of the (popular by the looks of it!) cake and run... I reckon I should do an hour's hack carrying Hopalong to make up for today's scoffing! :o
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Kickass Kermit does have a certain ring to it. :D

Mind you don't put your back out doing that.:eek:
 
Rosiefan said:
OK - have now watched the vids. Nothing wrong with that, he was just letting you know there are things he'd rather be doing (eating comes to mind judging from what you've told us about him in the past). He's only 4 after all :)

eta - now HH and his showjumping was a square peg/round hole issue I think - and that's not fun for anyone involved. Frodo will be fine, he's just a slightly immature person at the mo (this must be true - Rosie told me ;))
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Ah, but he's not 4, he's 5...;)

Couldn't agree more about HH being a square peg, but I just had to explore all options before I gave up on him. Frodo may be immature but he has a lot of the makings of a proper horse when he's all growed-up.;) :D
 
4/5 not much in it - and Jup's gonna be brilliant with a bit more mileage under his belt I bet you. I actually think you're very brave to even attempt BYEH, it's soooo competitive. He hasn't exactly disgraced himself in the 'ordinary' classes now has he :).

Have completely forgotten to say sorry to hear about the infection - bummer - hope you feel better very quickly.
 
Not quirky, just cheeky and opinionated (which I think is the best way to go :D ) Bad Jup in that dressage though. Cheeky sod.

Hope you're not too feeling too bad and that you're back to being a bouncing baydale ASAP. Would a pair of green fluffy socks help?
 
On nthe sensible side of the post ( ;) , check me out :p ) I do think people like to have a "label" for their horse. However, it is purely subjective to where personality becomes quirky :D I think something that you can do pretty much everything "normally" but for a few "personality" moments is a normal animal, whether it be a 12hh naughty shetland, or a 17hh "dressage" horse ... I think "quirky" steps in when they have to have a way of being managed in order to get them doing "normal" stuff. However, everyone has a different idea of everyday/normal stuff, and "normal" management :p

However, Jup isn't quirky just opinionated ;) but would maybe get a "quirky" label if he wasn't managed in the consistent way you manage him, or by someone less knowledgeable... :D
 
Just watched the vids, and had to LOL! But, inbetween the "I KNOW what i'm doing" moments, he looks very smart and a lot more grown up that I've seen him before... :p
 
teapot said:
Not quirky, just cheeky and opinionated (which I think is the best way to go :D ) Bad Jup in that dressage though. Cheeky sod.

Hope you're not too feeling too bad and that you're back to being a bouncing baydale ASAP. Would a pair of green fluffy socks help?
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Little tinker, isn't he? Maybe he'd lulled me into a false sense of security with his foot-perfect performance the week before at Field House? Or maybe the dullness of BYEH prompted him to liven things up a bit?:rolleyes:

Green fluffy socks might help, I assume they're from Chloe_GHE's new clothing range? ;)
 
just watched the vids and was about to say "little tinker"... hmm. looking very smart, and rather opinionated, and the jumping must have felt worse than it looked because I was expecting it to be terrible after reading your comments!
*manages not to make any mention of frogs on rockets*
as for the quirks vs traits part, i think a trait is something you can see is hereditary, because you had the parent, or because you know that bloodline is famous for that thing. e.g. Fleetwater Opp horses having a penchant for waving at the crowds, Matinee horses being very sharp, Cavalier horses being silly brave, or whatever.
to me, a quirk is specific to that horse, something in its own mind but not necessarily inherited.
i think there's a difference (or at least there is in my mind) between quirky and naughty though... naughty = will do exactly what you want when in the mood, but sometimes chooses not to. quirky = unusually and reliably weird about certain specific things.
the one i had who had a MAJOR problem about going through stable doorways (had it before I got her, always had it) was quirky, imho.
ditto the one who would put me on the floor when he saw a patch of grass that was a different colour to the rest of the grass. flipping wb.
the one who could do a super test but got progressively more inventive the more tests he did, and started throwing in more and more freestyle or high school movements just for a laff, was downright flipping naughty...
gosh, trust me to get over-analytical.
hope you're feeling a bit better now. or, at least, distracted from it. xxx
 
Baydale said:
I think all horses are different and because we like our own to be more special, labelling them "quirky" is a way of making them stand out. Ooooh, a sharp intake of breath from the forum massive.:eek: :D

So, somebody tell me what the difference is between a quirk and a trait please.
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Ooooh you must be a mind reader, I was thinking that while riding Emerald before (working him into the ground before hunting tomorrow!)

I may or may not share tomorrows exploits!
 
KatB said:
On nthe sensible side of the post ( ;) , check me out :p ) I do think people like to have a "label" for their horse. However, it is purely subjective to where personality becomes quirky :D I think something that you can do pretty much everything "normally" but for a few "personality" moments is a normal animal, whether it be a 12hh naughty shetland, or a 17hh "dressage" horse ... I think "quirky" steps in when they have to have a way of being managed in order to get them doing "normal" stuff. However, everyone has a different idea of everyday/normal stuff, and "normal" management :p

However, Jup isn't quirky just opinionated ;) but would maybe get a "quirky" label if he wasn't managed in the consistent way you manage him, or by someone less knowledgeable... :D
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And the label for Jupiter is "Fat and Cheeky", not "Quirky and Tricky". Quite right though that one person's normal is another's nightmare and he definitely has the potential to be a huge pain in the butt.;)
 
Baydale said:
He was born with a buxom bottom and if I let him eat as much as he'd like it would be twice the size.:eek: Maybe I should patent my Round Pony diet as it seems to be in demand!:D
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I was just thinking I either love your Pa's camera or the pony diet! As Jup is looking far more toned!

Not looking to bad (says she who couldn't ride like that when fit & your not at best health)
So I will just shut up now & find a punch bag for you to vent your fustrations!
 
Baggybreeches said:
Ooooh you must be a mind reader, I was thinking that while riding Emerald before (working him into the ground before hunting tomorrow!)

I may or may not share tomorrows exploits!
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From what you've said I would deduce that Emerald is indeed unique and with some skills and gifts that other horses don't have. I do feel that a report tomorrow may enlighten other lesser horses as to Emerald's way. He could be Monty Roberts for horses, or do I mean humans? :confused:
 
kerilli said:
just watched the vids and was about to say "little tinker"... hmm. looking very smart, and rather opinionated, and the jumping must have felt worse than it looked because I was expecting it to be terrible after reading your comments!
*manages not to make any mention of frogs on rockets*
as for the quirks vs traits part, i think a trait is something you can see is hereditary, because you had the parent, or because you know that bloodline is famous for that thing. e.g. Fleetwater Opp horses having a penchant for waving at the crowds, Matinee horses being very sharp, Cavalier horses being silly brave, or whatever.
to me, a quirk is specific to that horse, something in its own mind but not necessarily inherited.
i think there's a difference (or at least there is in my mind) between quirky and naughty though... naughty = will do exactly what you want when in the mood, but sometimes chooses not to. quirky = unusually and reliably weird about certain specific things.
the one i had who had a MAJOR problem about going through stable doorways (had it before I got her, always had it) was quirky, imho.
ditto the one who would put me on the floor when he saw a patch of grass that was a different colour to the rest of the grass. flipping wb.
the one who could do a super test but got progressively more inventive the more tests he did, and started throwing in more and more freestyle or high school movements just for a laff, was downright flipping naughty...
gosh, trust me to get over-analytical.
hope you're feeling a bit better now. or, at least, distracted from it. xxx
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I agree that some traits can be inherited but surely not all offspring will take more strongly from the sire than from the dam? :confused: A lot of the odd things that they do can be from past experiences, like yours with the doorway issue, but scary grass colouring is a fairly widespread problem - one of Jupiter's faves - and the dressage freestyling, well, you can see that Jup is serving his BD apprenticeship and destined for better things in that sphere.:p
 
I think people often like to think their competition horses fit the label of 'quirky but talented', when in actual fact the horse is just fit and spooky/silly/normal annoying horsey-self :rolleyes:

Videos didn't look too bad from where i'm sat, but then again I couldn't be bothered to get up and find my glasses! x

ETA: Some people would call my 4yo quirky because he tries to jump out of stables a lot, spooks at leaves, patches of grass, marks on the road and ever so often just has to have a good buck n bronc when we're out trotting or cantering. I just call him a stupid blummin warmblood and crack on ;)
 
I really like "queeky" - I'm totally stealing that! :D

As previously discussed, a piece of wisdom I had passed on to me was that everyone wants their horse to be the "est" at something. If it can't be the one that's the best mover or jumps the highest, it's going to be the one that bucks the hardest or is the "quirkiest". (And now for a trade secret - if you want to change a student's mind about a horse and therefore their approach to it, you need to find the horse a new "est" and promote that instead, at least until the horse gets "est" at something more useful. I'm so going to get my lifetime membership revoked for letting that one out of the bag . . .)

And my other pertinent offering from Aphorisms-R-Us is the far more succinct, "Who cares if "you" can ride it?!?!"

I've gone off the word "quirky" in a big way because it doesn't seem to mean what I think it should mean. I think it *should* apply to a horse with, as kerrili said, very specific, unusual "dos and don'ts" that seem to come out of nowhere and aren't situational or amenable to retraining/management changes. So something odd intrinsic to the horse. I would include a horse that seems to have a range of unusual reactions to things.

(I had one that was bad about doors/low ceilings but I later found out she had good reason. So maybe she would have been "quirky" if I hadn't known she was actually "scarred".)

What it often seems to mean is a badly behaved horse, perhaps with a training issue or a discomfort component. Maybe because it sounds so harmless, people seem to use it when perhaps a much more serious word would convey things more clearly!

As already said, I think it often gets applied to horses that are actually being very normal - for their age/breeding/type/fitness level/whatever - but in a way the rider doesn't expect or perhaps have the ability to sort. So a fit, athletic, young horse full of life isn't quirky, it's just being itself. :)

And Jup is so CUTE. Granted, not as cute as a few of your others but maybe that's him just trying to be the "est" at something . . . ;)
 
TS - I'm with you on queeky ;)

But, TBH, one persons "quirky" is another's "thank god it has a personality", and for me Jup is firmly in the latter. I'd like to think I'd far rather ride one with it's own independent brain cells down to large fences and big questions in the not-a-million-miles-away future than the former, rightly or wrongly (but I do like mares too... :o)

He's 5, he's beautifully produced and feels great, and yeah, the world turned up to watch him that day, dontchaknow :D ! I'd be quietly excited, and not worried for a moment ;). 5 is a long way to 6 (don'tweblumminknowit) and is still a hike to 7. Exciting, fun, and much to be fabulous in recovery and therefore very healthy for!
 
Ditto Tarrsteps and Deskbound - I won't even try to add any additional words of wisdom to those comments. :p

With regard to the videos, a few (inexperienced in the ways of Jup ;)) HHOers may recoil in horror that BD has got him overbent, however those of us in the know realise he's just going through his 'curl up like a tiny rubber ball before I completely explode' routine. Well contained Baydale! :D
 
meardsall_millie said:
Ditto Tarrsteps and Deskbound - I won't even try to add any additional words of wisdom to those comments. :p

With regard to the videos, a few (inexperienced in the ways of Jup ;)) HHOers may recoil in horror that BD has got him overbent, however those of us in the know realise he's just going through his 'curl up like a tiny rubber ball before I completely explode' routine. Well contained Baydale! :D
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Have been thinking how to say all of that for hours! I am not the best at writing down what I would like to say:rolleyes:

Pondering on quirks and traits, it has really surprised me when riding our home bred, how much like his mother he is (perhaps it shouldn't have surprised me that much when I look at my own kids and see so much of me and their fathers in them, good and bad;)). I often find myself saying while riding H its like sitting on a much more potentially explosive, more compact and powerful version of his mum, can comment on his dad as he was only raced and I haven't delved into his 'traits'. This has made me think that do some horses get labeled as quirky by their riders, as they are unaware of how the sire and dam can behave in ceratin situations, when really the behaviour they display is a family trait? The quirks being as Kerilli said something that is in the horses own mind.

Sorryto hear about the infection, hope that you are feeling much brighter soon. (Just to credit FJ again I do like the 'Kickass Kermit':))
 
I am a bit late to this it seems....hope you are feeling ok :) :)

Jup is definitely 'opinionated', not helped by his proportions i think!!! I still love him though, it's the cheeky monster thing i'm liking. However, that's easy to say with quite a few miles between me and his saddle! You do a fab job with him!!!

On a slightly different note i'm a little annoyed you have entered Keysoe for the Saturday........i was hoping to see the cheeky boys in action from up close!!!!!!!
 
Baydale said:
I agree that some traits can be inherited but surely not all offspring will take more strongly from the sire than from the dam? :confused:
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Sorry, yes, you're absolutely right, but obviously it was easier to pick on prominent sire lines than go into anecdotal "me and my ponies" mode...! Okay, brace yourselves:
Okay, of the ones I have bred, Canoodle was just like her mother temperamentally. I evented them both. She was by Welton Apollo so I don't know what he added to the equation. Not much tbh, she was LESS athletic than her mother, who was a 1/4 ID x 3/4 TB heffalumpy hunter! The dam had no quirks, and nor did the daughter. Sweetest easiest horse I've ever known (not bad for a chestnut mare) and still being so, years on, still being super dressage schoolmistress.
Dilys, out of my grey Adv mare Doris, had some of the same habits. One was, when I tried to do things to her head (worm her, check eyes, put in eye ointment, whatever) to use her head as a weapon... instead of trying to get away, she'd actively try to swing it hard against me. In my experience VERY few horses instantly go on the offensive in this way with their head when they feel hassled, most will first try to swing away, or perhaps then threaten to rear if they don't settle.
Florence, who my best friend has, is out of the same mare, and has also inherited a surprising number of traits from her mother, especially apparent under saddle (my friend never rode the mare, so she hasn't caused them.) One is veering violently right in mid-air over fences. Most odd. It took me years to train the mare out of that, 95% of the time... :o

So, yes, I agree, I think a lot of behaviour is inherited, but most of us haven't ridden the dam or sire so see them as quirks instead...
 
To add to k's "family traits" line of thought, I ride a mare who is very difficult to bridle. She's not really head-shy in the traditional sense - you can handle her ears etc. - and she has good reason to be nervous of people, but we still have to bridle in a "non-traditional manner". I would have put this down completely to her experiences except that we recently found out her mother, who jumped Grade A, also had to bridled the same way for her entire career. Now, that mare had her reasons, too, but I do think it's interesting since there's no way the filly could have "learned" the behaviour. More interestingly, she has a sister (different stallion, although the sires of both are closely related) who is perfectly normal to bridle, although she doesn't have a history of bad handling.
 
k9h said:
I was just thinking I either love your Pa's camera or the pony diet! As Jup is looking far more toned!

Not looking to bad (says she who couldn't ride like that when fit & your not at best health)
So I will just shut up now & find a punch bag for you to vent your fustrations!
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He's definitely more toned but never looks any thinner. I swear he and Marty are getting midnight snacks from somewhere. :confused:
 
Ignition said:
I think people often like to think their competition horses fit the label of 'quirky but talented', when in actual fact the horse is just fit and spooky/silly/normal annoying horsey-self :rolleyes:

Videos didn't look too bad from where i'm sat, but then again I couldn't be bothered to get up and find my glasses! x

ETA: Some people would call my 4yo quirky because he tries to jump out of stables a lot, spooks at leaves, patches of grass, marks on the road and ever so often just has to have a good buck n bronc when we're out trotting or cantering. I just call him a stupid blummin warmblood and crack on ;)
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True, Ignition, again it depends on what you're used to: one man's meat is another man's poison.

I'd be worried if a 4yo didn't spook and be a bit "aware", although trying to jump out of stables wouldn't be normal (or not chez Baydale), especially if he'd tried, and failed, once and then thought it was a good idea to have another go.:eek: ;) I think your horse has Attachment/Separation Issues and you should proceed to New Lounge where you will find lots of helpful suggestions of how to deal with this. :p
 
TarrSteps said:
I really like "queeky" - I'm totally stealing that! :D

As previously discussed, a piece of wisdom I had passed on to me was that everyone wants their horse to be the "est" at something. If it can't be the one that's the best mover or jumps the highest, it's going to be the one that bucks the hardest or is the "quirkiest". (And now for a trade secret - if you want to change a student's mind about a horse and therefore their approach to it, you need to find the horse a new "est" and promote that instead, at least until the horse gets "est" at something more useful. I'm so going to get my lifetime membership revoked for letting that one out of the bag . . .)

And my other pertinent offering from Aphorisms-R-Us is the far more succinct, "Who cares if "you" can ride it?!?!"

I've gone off the word "quirky" in a big way because it doesn't seem to mean what I think it should mean. I think it *should* apply to a horse with, as kerrili said, very specific, unusual "dos and don'ts" that seem to come out of nowhere and aren't situational or amenable to retraining/management changes. So something odd intrinsic to the horse. I would include a horse that seems to have a range of unusual reactions to things.

(I had one that was bad about doors/low ceilings but I later found out she had good reason. So maybe she would have been "quirky" if I hadn't known she was actually "scarred".)

What it often seems to mean is a badly behaved horse, perhaps with a training issue or a discomfort component. Maybe because it sounds so harmless, people seem to use it when perhaps a much more serious word would convey things more clearly!

As already said, I think it often gets applied to horses that are actually being very normal - for their age/breeding/type/fitness level/whatever - but in a way the rider doesn't expect or perhaps have the ability to sort. So a fit, athletic, young horse full of life isn't quirky, it's just being itself. :)

And Jup is so CUTE. Granted, not as cute as a few of your others but maybe that's him just trying to be the "est" at something . . . ;)
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I knew I could drag TS out of the woodwork eventually for her words of wisdom and the fact that she's given away one of her trade secrets, well, that's even better. :D

Let's hope Jup turns into the "est" eventually, but for all the right reasons.:)
 
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