Boss completing timesheet - am I overreacting!?

[NooNoo59]

Just wanted your opinions as this is winding me up. I am self employed and one of my clients requires me to fill out a timesheet to back up my invoice. I keep this in the top drawer of the desk, but he fills it in quite often for me and leaves notes on it about adjustments to times. I lost the timesheet a few months ago and he had nearly all the times recorded somewhere as he let me have them. I have come in today and found that he has filled in my leaving tome for Tuesday. I am in my fifties and am used to working for people that trust me and he is eroding that trust, my previous clients have always said get the job done and give me an invoice, I am not used to being policed down to the last minute as it seems very petty. Am o being silly?

 

[Goldenstar]

Fill in the sheet daily then he has no reason to do it .
It really up to the person doing the employing to decide how they manage it .
If you don't like it leave and move on .

 

[Mongoose11]

I don't think it's unreasonable but it is annoying. Millions of people have to clock in and out.

 

[applecart14]

Just wanted your opinions as this is winding me up. I am self employed and one of my clients requires me to fill out a timesheet to back up my invoice. I keep this in the top drawer of the desk, but he fills it in quite often for me and leaves notes on it about adjustments to times. I lost the timesheet a few months ago and he had nearly all the times recorded somewhere as he let me have them. I have come in today and found that he has filled in my leaving tome for Tuesday. I am in my fifties and am used to working for people that trust me and he is eroding that trust, my previous clients have always said get the job done and give me an invoice, I am not used to being policed down to the last minute as it seems very petty. Am o being silly?

think that would drive me mad. I temp and although I am extremely honest about the hours I have worked when I complete my timesheet its very laid back where I work, and I've often been told "don't worry, put what you want down". Although this isn't by the boss, its by those that can/often do sign my timesheet.

I may take the odd few minutes here and there if I turn up at five past seven and put 7am down but its swings and roundabouts and I often won't take my two 30 min a day free breaks or only have part of them.

 

[NooNoo59]

I do fill it in daily but sometimes the last leaving on the next days coming in time. I am looking for something else. I understand that he may want to keep his own record but why then fill put my timesheet he might as well do the whole thing himself .

 

[popsdosh]

Dont see what you can really do ! however generally it is not sensible to invoice if SE and include a timesheet as HMRC are likely to go to him and investigate and probably conclude you are not self employed and make him liable for PAYE and employers NI.
The main test HMRC use is that your autonomous and working on a contract basis to do a task and not time limited and can choose your own hours!
Whatever you do ,to maintain your status do not send Time sheets with invoice.

If I was doing it for somebody that picky I would tell them to stuff it.

 

[NooNoo59]

Yes it's irritating and makes me feel about 12! He doesn't trust me to fill in a timesheet but asks for my input on quite complex management issues, it's sort of you need to be professional and on the ball with the job but you can't be trusted to fill in a timesheet!

 

[SaddleUpSin]

Yes it's irritating and makes me feel about 12! He doesn't trust me to fill in a timesheet but asks for my input on quite complex management issues, it's sort of you need to be professional and on the ball with the job but you can't be trusted to fill in a timesheet!

Have you brought it up to him? I don't think you're being unreasonable.

 

[NooNoo59]

Although he is very easy to get on with he gets quite shirty about anything to do with hours and money etc and it's a very small office so can't really cope with the atmosphere!

 

[Antw23uk]

I would look for another yard!

 

[SaddleUpSin]

Really does sound more like employment than self employed.

 

[jhoward]

I'd leave the timesheet in your bag/car if it's not there he can't fill it in.

 

[NooNoo59]

Yes I was thinking that he obviously records my times when he is there so actually I don't see the need for a timesheet

 

[Damnation]

OP are you a contractor subject to IR35?

 

[NooNoo59]

Is that sa? Yes I invoice 2 of his companies and provide a timesheet

 

[NooNoo59]

Oh and have to provide utr on invoices on the request of his accountant

 

[Damnation]

Without knowing your setup I can't really comment too much but it doesn't bode well if you are trying to stay outside of IR35 vs the Supervision, Direction and Control rules...

 

[NooNoo59]

Well I am self employed and quite happy with that. But he is the boss and tells me what to do and insists on a timesheet. I havd had to detail hours worked before on a invoice. Is this difervent?

 

[popsdosh]

Well I am self employed and quite happy with that. But he is the boss and tells me what to do and insists on a timesheet. I havd had to detail hours worked before on a invoice. Is this difervent?

You are not self employed in the eyes of HMRC and may get into hot water ,however not as much as he will.He is using you being self employed to save his business quite a bit of money. Are you totally aware of the disadvantages to you of being self employed? Just make sure your own interest is best served by the set up. He sounds so tight that hes also saving money by pulling this stunt,has he got you on zero hours as well. Look after yourself!!!

 

[NooNoo59]

Hmm what should I do about it? I get paid for what I work and then split it between two companies. He has all the staff on this system.

 

[paddy555]

Well I am self employed and quite happy with that. But he is the boss and tells me what to do and insists on a timesheet. I havd had to detail hours worked before on a invoice. Is this difervent?

i don't see that detailing hours on an invoice determines if you are S/E or employed. Many S/E charge an hourly rate. My OH used to list his working times for transparency then there could be no argument over the labour charges on his invoices. He most certainly was S/E.

There is simply insufficient info on this thread to determine if you are an employee or self employed in the eyes of HMRC. I didn't even think that was the issue.

 

[Tapir]

i don't see that detailing hours on an invoice determines if you are S/E or employed. Many S/E charge an hourly rate. My OH used to list his working times for transparency then there could be no argument over the labour charges on his invoices. He most certainly was S/E.

There is simply insufficient info on this thread to determine if you are an employee or self employed in the eyes of HMRC. I didn't even think that was the issue.

It's not having to detail the hours, it's that the op can't choose her own hours. If you are self employed you should be able to chose the hours you work and also chose not to do them if you don't want to.

 

[Damnation]

It's not having to detail the hours, it's that the op can't choose her own hours. If you are self employed you should be able to chose the hours you work and also chose not to do them if you don't want to.

This exactly. Without going into vast amounts of detail, to be classed as "self employed" you have to prove that you are NOT subject to supervision, direction and control, otherwise you could be classed as a "professional employee" which as someone else has said could land you in hot water.

 

[sussexhorsegirl]

If you have any doubt about your employment status you can use the hmrc indicator tool to get a better idea. If it indicates employment you need to take proper advice and consider if you want to risk continuing to work for this client.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/employment-status-indicator

 

[Theocat]

Is this new behaviour? Does he do it to everyone?

If he has asked that they're filled in (regardless of the SE debate) and you haven't been doing it each day, it's possible you've inadvertently eroded his trust in you. Just get into the habit of doing them every day - they need doing anyway, so I can't see it's unreasonable to do them on a daily basis. If you're paid for time worked rather than jobs done, it's not unreasonable for the boss to keep a note if they feel you aren't necessarily keeping track of them as they've asked.

 

[NooNoo59]

No I have always done it and everyday for two years. But it's only recently he has taken to taking it out of my office drawer and checking it but only when I am not there. He also keeps a separate record as when my ts went missing he had nearly all my times written down. If we are out of the office for 15 mins he expects that to be marked as downtime.

 

[ycbm]

Hmm what should I do about it? I get paid for what I work and then split it between two companies. He has all the staff on this system.

He sounds like he is committing a massive fraud. You could report him anonymously on the Tax Evasion phone line. Since he is doing it to all of you, no-one will get in trouble but him and it will get sorted out.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Do you work for anyone else other than his two companies? Are they genuinely two companies? Do you do the same work for the two companies and are they located at the same premises?

 

[NooNoo59]

Yes yes and yes. Although the company reg addresses are different

 

[popsdosh]

Yes yes and yes. Although the company reg addresses are different

For your own protection are you paying class 2 & 4 National insurance ! As it really says to me he is playing with your employment status to lessen his costs.