Bottom rein on a dutch gag...

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I know it's supposed to be really harsh on the horse, but am I the only one who finds it does hardly anything RE brakes??

On both my horse (Badger) and my mums horse (Caffrey), they seem worse than in a regular French link!
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Badger just has far less brakes and Caf just yanks you sooooo much more!!!

i'm thinking there is something not nice about that bit???
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Hmmmm. Good point.

I've seen a few horses where it's worked really well & you need the lightest of touches.

HATE to see people riding with these with the reins on the bottom ring & the bit rings on a horizontal where the reins are being pulled on that much. Can't see how that would be good for the horse at all tbh.

I'd rather see a stronger bit & lighter hands than a gentle bit & heavy hands but I do agree with you on this, there doesn't seem to be many people who use this bit like it should be used. They tend to just pull & hope for the best (from what I've seen)
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I've only ridden a horse in one once & he was ok although a little snatchy so all of the above could be rubbish
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Do you think it could be more to do with fashionable bitting than practical bitting?

Same scenario as flash nosebands instead of cavessons.
 
Maybe you'd be better off for brakes with a pelham, or similar (liverpool, military reversible have the same basic action)

Sounds like your horses are not very happy with it, time to try some other bits perhaps?
 
I tried using the bottom ring a couple of times out hunting and had no brakes at all.
Mind you I tried lots of other bits for hunting and still had no brakes at all which is one of the reasons we don't hunt any more!
 
Mine gave me fantastic brakes with Murphy, even on the middle ring. There was absolutely no way he was going to b*gger off with me with that in. Unfortunately he really didn't like it, and didn't want to canter with it in so had to give up on that one!
 
Unfortunately the action of a 'gag' is a contradiction in itself. The lower rings are supposed to act with poll action but as they are always made with loose rings, as you take a contact, the ring slips round raising the bit in the horses mouth and therefore removing the contact that you needed in the first place...... not a bit i'd recommend for brakes to be honest..
 
As another poster has already stated it's not the bit but the hands on the other end. People who are experienced & understand how a bit works wont cause any harm. You have to remember that you can do as much damage to a horse/pony using a bit that they dont respect. Mo is schooled in a snaffle, but you would struggle to jump her in one, & that is despite the yrs of schooling she has had. Put her in a Pelham & you have a lot more control when jumping, & XC. Some horses even find the Pelham more comfortable as does Mo because it gives more room for her very fat tongue!!
 
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Unfortunately the action of a 'gag' is a contradiction in itself. The lower rings are supposed to act with poll action but as they are always made with loose rings, as you take a contact, the ring slips round raising the bit in the horses mouth and therefore removing the contact that you needed in the first place...... not a bit i'd recommend for brakes to be honest..

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that is because a Dutch Gag should be used with a leather "curb"!

i would say that 95% of DG's are fitted and used in-correctly.
 
These bits are also designed to be used with 2 reins but so far I'm the only person I know who uses 2 or pelham roundings.

I'm sure years ago the same was said about pelhams being too severe and strong.

It certainly seems to be a fashion thing but it works on both my beasts. One with 2 reins the other with roundings and a lip strap.
 
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I find in a gag its like I have cotton wool in Lacey's mouth, but a kimblewick really does the trick.

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Me too. I have tried in so many bits, looking for something "kinder" but I've gone back to this now. She is responsive and happy in a port mouth kimblewick.
 
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These bits are also designed to be used with 2 reins but so far I'm the only person I know who uses 2 or pelham roundings.

I'm sure years ago the same was said about pelhams being too severe and strong.

It certainly seems to be a fashion thing but it works on both my beasts. One with 2 reins the other with roundings and a lip strap.

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I have also only ever used them with 2 reins or roundings and have never really had a horse that wouldn't go in one!
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Unfortunately the action of a 'gag' is a contradiction in itself. The lower rings are supposed to act with poll action but as they are always made with loose rings, as you take a contact, the ring slips round raising the bit in the horses mouth and therefore removing the contact that you needed in the first place...... not a bit i'd recommend for brakes to be honest..

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that is because a Dutch Gag should be used with a leather "curb"!

i would say that 95% of DG's are fitted and used in-correctly.

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100% agree JM07. The should be used with a leather curb strap and used with 2 reins. I hate roundings as you have no control over the amount of curb you use.
Riding in the bottom ring with only one rein can break the horses jaw. Yes I have seen it done and it was very nasty. I would never use a dutch gag again after seeing that.
 
I think the sort of bit that works is completly dependent on the individual horse and the pressure points they will react too... Im not a fan of dutch gags becase they are used for the wrong reasons far to often, but would use one, with two reins, if it suited a horse best
 

As somebody else said, I'd much prefer a Pelham. It's a more controlled action & seems to have more 'point' to it than the gag.

As I say, I think they can work but those cases where they do work & are being used properly are few & far between.
 
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I think the sort of bit that works is completely dependent on the individual horse and the pressure points they will react too... Im not a fan of dutch gags because they are used for the wrong reasons far to often, but would use one, with two reins, if it suited a horse best

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Totally agree, also I think a lot of riders mostly the 'younger generation' used this bits as fashion accessories many years ago on there ponies rather than for the correct purpose.
Far too often you'd see under 10's wearing spurs flying about on little ponies riving them about and using these bits ...perhaps a few good lessons and buying a more appropriate pony for the rider ??
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Pepper goes XC & SJ in a dutch gag & I have never had any problems with it.
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I find it helps us get a good rhythm and 'bouncy' canter for jumping.
I tend to switch the reins between the first ring (i.e. as a normal snaffle but obv more 'leverage' because of the extra ring above) or the 2nd ring if he's really fresh.
 
how can a dutch gag break a jaw? Was it used with a curb?
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(sorry if its a really obvious answer, maybe I'm too hungover for brain to work properly??)
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I think it depends on the horse. Antifaz goes really well in one (not bottom ring, although I've thought about it at a show!) Tried it with a curb strap though and he really REALLY objected so took it off.
Actually, PF went well in a happy mouth gag as well, now you mention it, but she doesn't seem to mind WHAT's in her mouth, bless her.
 
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Riding in the bottom ring with only one rein can break the horses jaw. Yes I have seen it done and it was very nasty. I would never use a dutch gag again after seeing that.

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Jeepers creepers, what sort of hands did the rider have?
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If you need to apply that kind of force to a bit it's clearly the wrong bit for the horse!
 
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Riding in the bottom ring with only one rein can break the horses jaw. Yes I have seen it done and it was very nasty. I would never use a dutch gag again after seeing that.

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Jeepers creepers, what sort of hands did the rider have?
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If you need to apply that kind of force to a bit it's clearly the wrong bit for the horse!

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Poor horse had grakle and very tight martingale on, got socked in the teeth, threw its head up, got grabbed by the martingale and bolted then rider started heavily socking it again and crack, the bottom jaw broke. It was horrible
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Am following this thread with interest as I use a dutch gag on the bottom ring on my mare. I found in a pelham she pulled like a train and on a higher ring/with roundings she didn't listen at all. With the gag on the bottom ring she isn't strong, listens well and works in a nice outline. I do have to keep my hands completely still though.

JM07 - or anyone else for that matter - how do you fit a leather curb on a dutch gag? anyone got a picture?
 
Not got a pic but you attach it to the top ring (where the cheek pieces go) so it sits quite high. Antifaz found the curb strap too freaky, and it was waaaaaaaaay too much for him but it did work on PF (having said that, she's not really fussed what goes in her mouth!)
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