Bought unseen problems returning

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I think by now it's overwhelming and seems like you don't feel he is for you.

I'd be slightly wary here, the wheelbarrow incident seemed like that should never have happened on an expert yard for a start. With it being a busy riding school too, the staff have probably not had the chance to work with him individually yet either. His head will be spinning. I'd imagine they would want paid for this too, especially if you've not been able to go do this.

Echo my last post Jasmine, see if your YO wants to buy him...if not may know someone who does. Even if you send Ozzy back, this dealer will not refund you. The articles and posts speak to that.
You have warned people and im sure alot of peole have taken lessons from reading this thread too. Im really sorry if this sounds harsh Jasmine, this is taking a massive toll on you and no doubt your health. Really hope things work out for Ozzy. If I had the cash I'd have already made you an offer & he'd be on way to scotland. But I'm poor right now.
 
ester said:
I think most people would think more of a dealer that had done a decent assessment period before advertising. But it is what it is and arguably probably best he didn't spend too much time with this one. Seems like I might need to hunt out some badges.
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No mate b and b is it
 
Has the dealer lied about his age? Looking at the dealer advert, it says he is 8. The FB add linked above says he was broken in July 2023. Either he was late to break in, and they took their time, or basing it on general age to be broken in being 4, that was 2 years ago, making him about 6? Could you get YO to take a look at his teeth/get help to post a pic on here?

It may just be the original owner let him develop and backed him at 6ish but the times currently dont add up

Certainly set yourself up to succeed when handling him in the interim, e.g. tie him up etc. I had a Welsh D with impeccable manners (stood well out the way while putting his feed in his manger/could muck out with wheelbarrow in the door way and him loose) but if he was having a Welsh moment (if which there were lots) he would try and go through you, he was very much flight over fight.

Also when you start riding him, how about having him in your lesson, and asking your instructor to ride him for the first half, so you can see how he goes then you get on once you've seen he's ok? (If you decide to keep him, its understandable with your health and age if you feel you need a rock solid completely reliable type)

Edit - just seen and previous owner does say he will be 8 at the end of the month, and the post is in 2025. So he was broken in when he was 6/late 5s
 
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He looks like a nice little cob who could be really nice, but I don't think OP likes him, doesn't want to get to know him (which is sad, but entirely her prerogative) and should probably just sell him on again and stick to riding school horses without the responsibilities of ownership.

Badmouthing the dealer (whether deserved or not) online, isn't going to help resolve the situation.

I feel sorry for Ozzy. He just wants a nice, long-term home.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
Just to clarify this dealer knew about my disabilties I told him what I needed. He also lied about having Ozzy for 6 weeks to assess, he clearly did not. That and others lies made me want to take the matter further and prevent anyone else for ending up in the same situation. That is why I posted about him Facebook as a lady was looking to purchase a horse from him and I didn't want her to end up with the same issue. As for my inexperience why do you think I wanted a safe steady horse. He has been handled by experts and still got the same behaviour today in his stable. Ozzy has not behaved as described in his advert he most definately doe not have good stable manners.
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Mate, all taking this further is going to do is to cause you more physical, mental and monetary stress. It's not going to change anything.

It sucks but it's the unfortunate truth.
 
I understand wanting a horse that is suitable for your needs and/or disabilities, but if you're going to be particular, buying sight unseen may not be for you. In addition to that, horses are not robots.

The horse has bounced around a bit and is probably thinking, "WTF" right now, and as many others have stated, cobs can be bolshy when they're unsettled, insecure, or otherwise unfamiliar. Then he has someone insecure and timid enter his stable and expect things from him. I have no idea how there could be a recipe for success there.

I think buying a horse sight unseen, within that price range, and expecting him to be 100% perfect right off the bat, is unrealistic. I know that the dealer said some things that you believed, but it took me about 10 seconds of reading their FB page to realize that their credibility is probably quite low. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but I do feel as though there have been unrealistic expectations.

At the end of the day, this is the horse that you've got. Either work with him, or sell him on. Those are your two choices. I've seen some horses land in new homes or arrive at new yards and act a fool (or be pushy). They were perfectly fine once they settled in. They all seem to settle in differently and on different timelines. This is a living being.

It sounds as though you don't have the resources and mentality for this horse, which is fine. I'm not sure that going after the dealer will accomplish much, but I agree that it's a shame when people misrepresent a horse and that there should be consequences. I don't think that this dealer 100% misrepresented, but there were some blurred truths there. I do think that any seller needs to be honest and forthcoming, but that buyers need to do their due diligence as well. Sure, they shouldn't "have to" but that's the world that we're living in.

No experts have been handling this horse on a consistent enough basis in the right manner, IMO. It's still such early days too. Either way, as it stands right now, this horse is yours. If you're set on not keeping him, then take that route. I do think that he hasn't been given a proper chance and a good start in his new home.

It's not all your fault, and I understand that I'm being rather blunt, but it's just how I see things. Anyone is free to take it or leave it.

I'm sorry that it's turned out this way for both you and the horse.

Edit: fixed grammar so I don't sound completely illiterate.
 
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I agree with you @CanteringCarrot . This post had only one aim in mind, send back and get the money. There is no middle ground; horse isn't liked, owner thinks he's dangerous for exhibiting normal horse behaviours and not being a cuddly bunny to complete strangers. The horse doesn't deserve to be treated like that, he hasn't been set up for success.
 
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Beausmate said:
He looks like a nice little cob who could be really nice, but I don't think OP likes him, doesn't want to get to know him (which is sad, but entirely her prerogative) and should probably just sell him on again and stick to riding school horses without the responsibilities of ownership.

Badmouthing the dealer (whether deserved or not) online, isn't going to help resolve the situation.

I feel sorry for Ozzy. He just wants a nice, long-term home.
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I totally agree. If you buy a horse you are buying quirks especially unseen. You have to get on with it and work with the horse. I look at the pics and videos the original owner posted of him, I think there are around 21 and I am just not seeing what Jasmine is describing. Experts in a riding school are struggling to deal with him? Heaven help them if they have a difficult horse. :D:D Look at the pics is anyone else seeing such a difficult horse. He stood by a mounting block in the dark, girl got on bareback, did half of around the world and slid off his bum. Difficult really? There is just nothing in those pics that relate to the behaviour being described. Pics of his head, he looks kind. Seemed to move out well when ridden. He does need some schooling but that is not the end of the world. What is there about this horse that I am missing? He looks to be a perfectly steady and kind horse just ready to school on, get fit, get some condition on. A real happy hacker. Even seems to ride out alone per the pics..


Totally agree with your first para which seems to be spot on. Sad for everyone but this doesn't seem likely to work. I think someone from outside of the riding school should try working with him, I wonder if they would have different results.

I wonder if the riding school staff will have such a problem if he becomes theirs. Cynical, cynical me. :D:D:D

I don't understand the point in carrying on. Right or wrong the chances of getting cash from the dealer are remote, Jasmine doesn't seem to like Ozzie and it seems cannot forgive him anything. You have to put the work in with any new horse.
I'm not sure why it matters how long the dealer had him (although he may have lied). I wouldn't imagine with this horse the assessment would be any different. If he had had to keep him for 6 weeks I would be far more worried as to why he was there so long and did it take that long to iron out issues and what were they.

He was a cheap cob, a sweet friendly horse per the pics in his old home, obviously very easily rideable both from the pics and the dealers own rider. Seemed fine with traffic. Could be tacked up. What more is there to assess. It was up to the buyer to assess any health problems. I'm sure if someone was going to pay say 10k then that sort of dealer would have had the horse longer, schooled him, tidied him up etc. Devine is not that sort of dealer. He seems to buy cheap probably from the Welsh sales and sells them on. You get what you pay for and it is very very sad that Jasmine doesn't realise she has bought a lovely horse.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
Just to clarify this dealer knew about my disabilties I told him what I needed. He also lied about having Ozzy for 6 weeks to assess, he clearly did not. That and others lies made me want to take the matter further and prevent anyone else for ending up in the same situation. That is why I posted about him Facebook as a lady was looking to purchase a horse from him and I didn't want her to end up with the same issue. As for my inexperience why do you think I wanted a safe steady horse. He has been handled by experts and still got the same behaviour today in his stable. Ozzy has not behaved as described in his advert he most definately doe not have good stable manners.
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Give him a chance, he’s not a robot.
My friends cob is a dope on the rope type. She moved yards after 7 years and he went wild. She was terrified of leading him in and out and thought he was going to come over the stable door whenever he was in.
She rang me in a panic. Within 3 weeks he was back to his usual self.
I’d be tempted to give him a few weeks.
Manners are pretty easy instil with firm and consistent handling.
 
There is absolutely no point in your pursuing the dealer through any court. Most of what he said when describing the horse is similar enough to the auction ad that the horse wasnt 'not as described". The only thing you could do would be return Ozzy for a refund under distance selling regs which the dealer has already said he won't give you. If you sent him back and refused an exchange you would spend a fortune in legal fees and still get nothing.
You need to take some responsibility in all of this. You say you have owned a horse before so you are not a complete novice, so really should have known better than to buy a horse unseen and unvetted. Really Morecambe isn't that far away from Bradford that you couldn't have viewed the horse yourself.
Either deal with the horse you've bought or sell him to someone who will think he is wonderful. Surely he deserves that.
Perhaps it would be better to stick to riding the RS horses.
 
meandmyself said:
Mate, all taking this further is going to do is to cause you more physical, mental and monetary stress. It's not going to change anything.

It sucks but it's the unfortunate truth.
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I don't want thim to get away with lying and not selling me the horse that I should have had . I may have mental health and physical disabilities but I don't want to take the easy route and give in. There has to be reasons why he has such a bad reputation and for people who ask about him to be told to 'run and then run further'. It's not so fair that these people get away with it all the time.
 
Genuinely now we know more about him I think you’ve lucked out to what he could have been history wise.

We know there’s reasons the dealers have a bad rep, that doesn’t mean you’ll get anything out of it other than trauma and even less money, we’ve seen this play out many many times before. But as said previously you are free to ignore everyone’s advice on that
 
Pearlsasinger said:
There is absolutely no point in your pursuing the dealer through any court. Most of what he said when describing the horse is similar enough to the auction ad that the horse wasnt 'not as described". The only thing you could do would be return Ozzy for a refund under distance selling regs which the dealer has already said he won't give you. If you sent him back and refused an exchange you would spend a fortune in legal fees and still get nothing.
You need to take some responsibility in all of this. You say you have owned a horse before so you are not a complete novice, so really should have known better than to buy a horse unseen and unvetted. Really Morecambe isn't that far away from Bradford that you couldn't have viewed the horse yourself.
Either deal with the horse you've bought or sell him to someone who will think he is wonderful. Surely he deserves that.
Perhaps it would be better to stick to riding the RS horses.
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You don't know my disabilities a 1 hr 45 mins - 2 hour car ride would really mess with me.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
I don't want thim to get away with lying and not selling me the horse that I should have had . I may have mental health and physical disabilities but I don't want to take the easy route and give in. There has to be reasons why he has such a bad reputation and for people who ask about him to be told to 'run and then run further'. It's not so fair that these people get away with it all the time.
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Honestly...it would be infinitely better to walk away from the grief that pursuing this WILL cause you. If you have mental health issues the stress of that would be incredibly unhelpful when what you wanted was a nice horse, which you do seem to have. You can sell Ozzy privately or through a decent dealer or work with him. Put your own and the horse's needs first on this occasion!
 
ester said:
Genuinely now we know more about him I think you’ve lucked out to what he could have been history wise.
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That's a really good point.

I think it's been quite useful that others have dug up more info on this horse. I did think that this could've gone far worse. His history seems to be mostly uneventful, really.
 
palo1 said:
Honestly...it would be infinitely better to walk away from the grief that pursuing this WILL cause you. If you have mental health issues the stress of that would be incredibly unhelpful when what you wanted was a nice horse, which you do seem to have. You can sell Ozzy privately or through a decent dealer or work with him. Put your own and the horse's needs first on this occasion!
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Completely agree with this
He is (imho) easily worth £5k, and should be very easy to sell for that if you decide he's not for you
Is pursuing the dealer, and returning the 'defective/missold goods' for a refund really in anyone's best interests, particularly Ozzy's?
 
Jasmine2023 said:
I don't want thim to get away with lying and not selling me the horse that I should have had . I may have mental health and physical disabilities but I don't want to take the easy route and give in. There has to be reasons why he has such a bad reputation and for people who ask about him to be told to 'run and then run further'. It's not so fair that these people get away with it all the time.
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@Jasmine2023

I am going to be absolutely blunt.

Taking this to court will achieve nothing apart from making you more unhappy. It will cost thousands and take months of stress, anxiety and worry. The dealer isn't going to change or be "punished" by the process but it might possibly ruin your life.

The best way to win is the enjoy the cute cob you have and get on with your life.
 
Seems dodgy dealers are everywhere sadly, you know this too, that why its great there's fb pages and forums to share experiences and ask questions these days. Was Ozzy a quick buy based on his description? And now it's a bit of a holy moly that not what I ordered moment (please don't take this wrong way)

Your OP was about how to get a refund and not much has changed in your posts. What I've learned from this thread is even if law is on your side, it does not push a dealer to refund you. Even if you took it to court, you win- he still won't part with a penny and there's nowt you can do. Really don't think you need that stress, it's horrible people are like this but it's not a fight you will win and likely take a very long time.

Ozzy on the other hand, you might just have a wee diamond there.

Bear in mind he's not only been through scary loud sale he's lost his herd and people. Now on a busy yard with (based on this thread) little notice being shown to him. I'd be pretty pissed off and defensive too 🙈

Hope if his old owners come across this thread they read it through seeing people being kind about Ozzy and them too.
 
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Jasmine2023 said:
I don't want thim to get away with lying and not selling me the horse that I should have had . I may have mental health and physical disabilities but I don't want to take the easy route and give in. There has to be reasons why he has such a bad reputation and for people who ask about him to be told to 'run and then run further'. It's not so fair that these people get away with it all the time.
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Also

With a bit of work and bonding with the poor horse you WILL have the horse you want. His last owner was climbing all over him bareback, in the dark, no reins. There's not many who'd let you do that. Mine is as good as gold generally but would have buggered off and left me in the dust if I tried.

This is the horse you bought. It'll just take a bit to find him again. https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1AXZERJEJR/
 

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Based off of the ad photos and videos, it looks like he's been out and about, and is quite tolerant. He wasn't being ridden by professionals, so he possibly has some rough edges that might need refining training wise, but nothing crazy or out of the ordinary.

He looks to be good natured at heart.

I'd channel my time, money, energy, and other resources into giving this guy a chance vs going after the dealer.
 
Which would you rather do - spend a tonne of money pursuing the dealer through the courts at the cost of your mental health and get nothing back, or pay the yard to get the horse to the point that you thought you'd bought, and have a lot of fun and the mental health benefits you bought the horse for?
 
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Jasmine2023 said:
I don't want thim to get away with lying and not selling me the horse that I should have had . I may have mental health and physical disabilities but I don't want to take the easy route and give in. There has to be reasons why he has such a bad reputation and for people who ask about him to be told to 'run and then run further'. It's not so fair that these people get away with it all the time.
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it is not your battle about other people. It is pointless. You said earlier you didnt have much money and couldn't afford schooling livery to sell him at £250 a week or whatever. How come you now have the money to pay for legal fees to fight him? And what are you fighting. The only thing you can fight is not taking the horse back. You could have sent Ozzie back days ago and challenged him for a refund. You didn't.

As for thinking he didn't sell you the horse you should have had he did. He sold you precisely the horse as described. Not only that the horse is totally backed up by 21 photos from his previous home to prove it and several on Devine's own website. .At least 2 and I think more on the original 21 pics have handled Ozzie. I don't remember seeing a single ear flattened back. Just a kind attentive horse.


This is the time for realism not idealism. it is totally irrelevant what his reputation is or if people say avoid him. If you take action against him (for something,) then what are you going to gain. This may well be an honest sale of an honest horse. Any action will not be about his reputation as a dealer or other people or other horses. It will be about Ozzie and you. As far as Devine is concerned you have provided a lot of info on this thread about your ability and handling. If you didn't visit in person it is difficult how he could assess the suitability of yourself. Maybe if he had seen you ride it would have been more obvious.

If you want to take on the entire world of dishonest horse dealers then carry on.

Can you explain what you actually want to happen? what will make you happy as I simply don't know and I would guess some of the others don't either.
Are you keeping Ozzie, are you doing lots of work with him?
 
Jasmine2023 said:
I don't want thim to get away with lying and not selling me the horse that I should have had . I may have mental health and physical disabilities but I don't want to take the easy route and give in. There has to be reasons why he has such a bad reputation and for people who ask about him to be told to 'run and then run further'. It's not so fair that these people get away with it all the time.
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But despite the dealers (deserved) reputation you've got what is, or certainly could be with a little work, a really really nice horse. The sales ad and their ad are close enough that there's not really a case for him being misdescribed, especially with how he's been kept and handled since.

I'd buy him off you if I could afford it, I think plenty of people on here would, or the riding school.

If your disabilities are that bad and you say you couldn't afford 200 or so a week on professional input on top of the livery, are you able to really cope with horse ownership? Would you really be able to cope with what would likely All the money in the world won't buy a horse without quirks because they're all individuals that respond to changes in the environment around them. But buying unseen means being able to cope with whatever steps off the lorry and so far as that goes you've been lucky. He's not done anything much except react to what are frankly liberties in handling/husbandry, especially when you think about his history and how he was kept previously.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but really it probably would be in your best interests not to pursue the dealer. Have a look on the Facebook dodgy dealer groups, you really have been lucky if ozzys worst faults is throwing his weight around a bit when feeling anxious. Equally it's fine if that makes him unsuitable for you in which case sell on with an honest description.
I understand it's a frustrating, upsetting situation but taking the dealer to court will cost more than money and probably not achieve anything.
paddy555 said:
nothing to do with Ozzies problems but there is one photo on that FB post from the original owner I am surprised no one has commented on. The one where he is ridden by the young girl in shorts on the gravel. :D:D:D
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Guess they thought it pretty unlikely they'd fall off?!! Honestly from the previous owners FB it looks like he's been a young girls pony who's had a lot of fun on him but is now growing up and going off to college so needs money fast to fund things.
I think he's a lovely horse. (Might enter the lottery).
 
FieldOrnaments said:
Guess they thought it pretty unlikely they'd fall off?!! Honestly from the previous owners FB it looks like he's been a young girls pony who's had a lot of fun on him but is now growing up and going off to college so needs money fast to fund things.
I think he's a lovely horse. (Might enter the lottery).
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nope, cast our eyes down a bit more. Where my eyes usually start looking. :D:D:D:D:D
 
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