Boxer dogs - tail docking

[EAST KENT]

There is no painless technique ,that is a smokescreen;perhaps you did`nt bother to watch once the deed was done! I,however,care a great deal about all my animals and care if they have pain inflicted on them! If you are doing a big flock ..well there would`nt be the time to bother to look would there?As for it being the OES owner`s fault,agree,but your average owner is not a groomer ,making the breed unsuitable for anyone but a caring and diligent keeper. The majority of families fall well below that level, so it falls to a groomer,if the dog gets lucky,to clip out the clat,mats and (yes!!) MAGGOTS.

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

East Kent - I concur Having working in MILs poodle parlour, I have come to the conclusion that your average dog owner doesn 't know a dogs arse from its elbow and is too damn lazy to pick up a brush or wash its backside off!

 

[3DE]

There is no painless technique ,that is a smokescreen;perhaps you did`nt bother to watch once the deed was done! I,however,care a great deal about all my animals and care if they have pain inflicted on them! If you are doing a big flock ..well there would`nt be the time to bother to look would there?

Time - yes you would notice. Even with a large flock we have a duty of care to our animals.

As for the technique - it is a case of knowing the anatomy of the nervous system of the lambs. If the ring is placed on the correct part of the tail it is away from the major nerves (a balance between too long a tail and too short and causing pain). For the gonads - there is also an area where the ball sack narrows and pain is minimal (I'm not saying it doesn't hurt at all but it certainly doesn't cause them to not be able to walk). Too far to the body and it nips, too close to the epididymis and testes and pain is caused.

Time is also a factor - the banding should not be done any later than 48 hours old. This is long enough for the lamb to recover from the trauma of birth but short enough of a time for the endorphins and seratonin produced by the mother during labour to still be present. It is practice by some farmers to band at 7 days before turnout to pasture - at this age the lambs will undoubtedly feel pain as the pain killing endorphins will have subsided.

Again I would like to add that anyone causing pain with this technique has either poor technique or poor training and shouldn't be practicing. None of the lambs I have ever banded have shown any signs like clamping of the tail or being unable to walk - those are signs of major nerves being affected (poor technique).

When lambing season arrives I will video my technique to show how little my lambs respond to the procedure.

FWIW we don't band ewe lambs tails as the tail prevents wind burn on the udders in our cold climate up here. They do however need their bums clipping at least once during fattening and also prior to market. Tups get double banded though.

Edit - I've looked for videos online and in the two I found the lambs are docked too high up the tail and at too old an age...

 

[SusieT]

Contradicting yourself
-none of the thousands of lambs I have docked/castrated have ever shown any sign of pain
then
-pain is minimal (I'm not saying it doesn't hurt at all
Perhaps a diagram is needed, as I have not seen any difference in where it is placed, short enough that it is effective as a method and long enough to still cover the genital region, all done within a day or so of birth.
I look forward to your video, It's not someting I'm involved in currently otherwise I would do likewise, but if you are able to do it painlessly, I will be impressed!

 

[3DE]

Contradicting yourself
-none of the thousands of lambs I have docked/castrated have ever shown any sign of pain
then
-pain is minimal (I'm not saying it doesn't hurt at all

I'm not contradicting myself. Pain is minimal - I conclude this as none of the lambs have ever shown any signs of pain. I never said it was pain free - that would be a claim that isn't true. I simply said the signs that another member mentioned are signs of pain that my lambs have never exhibited. They are signs of severe pain which indicates some problem with the process. Lambs I have banded have carried along with their normal business as normal as soon as it has been done.

I raised this as puppy docking with a pair of scissors (common practice) is far from pain free - the band method would hurt less and leave less side effects.

The vid won't be available until the end of March/beginning of April which is when our ewes start to drop.

 

[Alec Swan]

SusieT,

were I in your shoes, I would think first before arguing with 3DE. I haven't a clue who they are, but by the sound of it, they are highly experienced.

Those who care for sheep, in large numbers, take a great deal of pride, in their welfare. Care for the individual, and you care for the whole flock.

Sadly, there tends to be a better standard of management by the person who keeps 5000 ewes, than by the person who keeps 5. It's all a matter of "experience".

Alec.