Brambles/barbed wire injury. Where do I stand?

caramel said:
So, went for walk round field tonight, found lots of overgrown brambles at water trough, so probably gets scratched every time he goes for a drink, overgrown (very sharp) brambles along hedgeline, and a broken section of barbed wire. Spoke to YO who's proving awkward and not wanting anything to do with it, claiming that it's my horse's fault and the barbed wire not hers (despite there being a clear boundary between her field and the field behind that).

What do I do? My horse is scarred due to poor maintenance. Will post pics tomorrow.
Click to expand...

You get a nice sharp pair of garden sheers and cut the brambles by the water trough down - but leave the hedgerow, as these very rarely cause damage, and horses do like to munch on them.

And then you get a run of electric fence and cordon off the barbed wire - or simply remove it (providing the boundry is still intact).

My horse is on box rest.
Click to expand...

Why?? He has a few bramble cuts????

But DIY shouldn't absolve the property owner of responsibility for their own property maintenance and some duty of care to the stock they're charging to keep there... I don't think it's good practice that this YO (apparently) didn't care about potentially dangerous fencing once alerted to it...
Click to expand...

And of course this is absolutely correct. DIY does not mean you are responsible for land maintenance - unless you are renting the place lock stock and barrel.
 
Last edited:
I took it the horse was on box rest whilst she carried out the necessary adjustments to the field, so maybe a day or two? Unless he really is on box rest for his actual injuries.

I would go to the field and do it myself in the first instance. If this is simple to do and is unlikely to recur (barbed wire not being put back up or are the more areas of bad fencing) then it might be you decide to stay on at the yard. If you feel the need then obviously you might consider moving.

I would have thought that boundry fencing is a YO responsibility however if I were to spot anything I could "fix" in the short term I would do that and inform YO, hoping they would then deal as appropriate.
 
I think you will find that, in law, a YO has a duty of care towards the horses on his/her land. i.e. maintaining safe fencing and stables, ensuring horses are not neglected. I understand that a YO can be prosecuted if, for example, a horse is in a starved condition as a result of not being cared for by its owner.

However, in reality, this is not exactly easy to enforce unless you are prepared to be very thick skinned and put up with the aggravation or risk being asked to leave!

I think you either have to deal with the wire, brambles etc yourself or find somewhere with better standards of field maintenannce.
 
If I was the YO and a client told me there was barbed wire in the field, I'd remove it, if not simply for the safety of my own horses.

The brambles, well, nothing a pair of shears couldn't fix!

Ultimately, if you are not happy with the field and not happy with your YO's decision making then I would find somewhere else.
 
And this is why we don't have liveries!!

I have occasionally turned mine out with barbed wire, but only when there's plenty to eat and they aren't hanging over fences looking for snacks

Chop back the brambles and get some electric fence, or move. I think the standard of fences probably relates to how much you pay

Also if there are 8 out in a field its going to turn into a muddy mess - can you feed out there to some your horse from self harming?
 
I have to say I am quite surprised at some of the responses on this thread, half the time on here we go on about the YO's responsibilities and duty of care whereas in this case it seems to be the OPs fault because her horse is the most frequently injured out of the herd :confused:. I also see nothing wrong with the OP choosing to keep her horse stabled for a day or so in order to keep the cuts clean if the field is really muddy.
 
I think the point people are trying to make is that OP chose to keep her horse at this yard, presumably after looking round and inspecting the facilities. So she does bare a large portion of the responsibilities.

Yard owners are duty bound to provide SECURE fencing... what they chose to use to provide that is completely up to them and barbed wire, unfortunately is perfectly acceptable to fullfil this requirement... I personally wouldn't put my horse in a field with barbed wire unless there was a barrier between him and it but many people couldn't give a rats arse and this is why it is still considered an acceptable form for fencing for some equestrian establishments.

In OP's situation, I would be a tad annoyed at y/o's response, however since being a livery at a very DIY yard I have learnt that the easiest, quickest and most satisfactory way to resolve things like this is to DIY.... at least you know the job is done and to your satisfaction - the number of times my y/o has 'fixed' things and I have had to go along and refix them is unbelieveable... I let these things go though because otherwise my yard suits me and my horse just fine... ;)
 
the barbed wire was in this case 'broken' and so not up and tensioned on a fence hence not much use as a boundary provided by the YO

CB, I certainly get the do it yourself and you know it is done properly though :). I am not sure I look forwards to having any future horse I might own on a yard!
 
amymay said:
What has the OP done wrong?
Click to expand...
Not addressed at OP specifically a general point!! DIY's seem to think its YODI (yard owner do it), also the references to suing above make me utterly paranoid, especially the sweet itch post.

When we had liveries we were very expensive, but did everything for the liveries bar muck out (including breaking ice etc). I think that worked better, but obviously not everyone is prepared to pay for the service.
 
Not addressed at OP specifically a general point!! DIY's seem to think its YODI (yard owner do it)
Click to expand...

But that is exactly what it is (yard owner do it). A DIY livery yard means that you do your horse yourself. That is it. The management of the land, and security of the fences and maintenance of the yard is the YO's responsibility. Unless you are renting the yard, as I said earlier, lock stock and barrel.

I have only ever been on DIY yards. The YO has maintained the yard and land, I maintained my horse.
 
I think the issue here is with 'maintenance', if the field was like this when the OP moved there then I don't think she really has room to complain. It was her choice to move there and has to live with what she has chosen. I don't think she can really expect to move to a certain standard of facilities and then complain when they aren't upgraded to her required standard. Maintenance to my mind means maintaining the status quo and not letting the standards slip. If however, she chose the yard and the field has subsequently fallen into a state of disrepair then she has a case to take to the YO.
 
FRESHMAN said:
Sorry DD but As a Y O I would go to prison first. What is this bloody Country coming to.
Their is a simple solution to the OP complaint. Move yards to somewhere that provides full Post & Rail & all the other safety features all liveries want when they have a problem. Shame they do not think the same when looking for somewhere as cheap as chips! The other alternative of course is to check you horses field fence every day. It's watering hole is also a very important area to check at least once a day. Had this been done the offending brambles/wire would have been seen before an injury occurred. Whilst I accept I am presuming the horse is on DIY, why is it that people do not understand it means exactly what it says on the tin! Do It Yourself.
Click to expand...


^^^^ THIS^^^^^ì
 
As a yard owner, if my liveries inform me that the fence is stretching or broken or have any concerns about the safety of their horse I fix it straight away. I guess everyone has different standards though so I expect my liveries to insorct and be happy with the facilities before they bring their horses to live with us!
 
caramel said:
Over the past week or so my TB has come in with several (counted 11 in all), scratches to face, believed to be caused by brambles.

However yesterday I was notified that he'd come in with a nasty cut on his face. It's a straight line along his right cheek, and having cleaned it, looks most definately like a barbed wire injury. He's fully up to date with flu/tetanus ( yearly vaccs booked for 2 weeks). No obv swelling, looks to be healing (albeit slowly). Will take pic and post tomorrow. It's about 5cm in total, not sure whether to ring vet, but not big enough to stitch (plus nothing to stitch). It's being kept clean and his fly mask seems to cover it up nicely. Have put sudocream on.
However today I found a small cut on top of right foreleg, it's not very big and have cold hosed, sudocream applied. There's some heat but doesn't appear to be lame, although very reluctant to let me touch (don't blame him really).

And to top it off there are 3 evenly spaced marks on his neck, again these are broken skin. After consulting with a good friend on the yard, we've come to the conclusion these are also barbed wire related.

So, went for walk round field tonight, found lots of overgrown brambles at water trough, so probably gets scratched every time he goes for a drink, overgrown (very sharp) brambles along hedgeline, and a broken section of barbed wire. Spoke to YO who's proving awkward and not wanting anything to do with it, claiming that it's my horse's fault and the barbed wire not hers (despite there being a clear boundary between her field and the field behind that).

What do I do? My horse is scarred due to poor maintenance. Will post pics tomorrow.
Click to expand...


One should always walk round fields prior to taking horse to the yard.


That said its YO responsibility for maintaining the fields are as safe as they can be.
Keeping water trough area clear of weeds is a simple job and should come automatically . I keep nettles down round our troughs.

. Sounds to me YO doesn't care about horses welfare. I would ask her to have brambles cut back and loose wire removed or replaced or |I would be on the hunt for a new yard.
 
The best fencing one can get is 'Heavy Duty Post and Rail' fencing with 'Equifencing' on it. This ensures that horses can not kick through the fence line and if any of the rails break that the rails do not fall apart.
As regards water troughs these should be made of plastic as horses have been known to fracture their legs as a result of kicking metal water troughs.
A recent court case demonstrated that owners of horses need to have third party liability insurance to the value of £10,000,000 (Ten Million Pounds) for each of their horses so that in the event of them escaping and causing an accident they have sufficient cover as in law it is the owner of the horse who is responsible for the accident caused by their horse whether it is their fault or not.
However, if it could be demonstrated that the owner of the yard did not have sufficiently good fencing in place or did not maintain it correctly then a claim could be made against them by the insurers of the horse so it is important that yard owners have fencing of an acceptable standard in place and that they have a formal procedure for regularly checking the fencing and keep recors of it so that they can demonstrate that they have done everything necessary to ensure that horses can not escape from their premises.
Like any other commercial business yard owners need to be very much more aware of their responsibilities and duty of care to the animals and people on their land. This can be demonstrated by the number of civil cases that have been taken against yard owners in recent years some of which have been reported in the equestrian press.
 
OWLIE185 said:
The best fencing one can get is 'Heavy Duty Post and Rail' fencing with 'Equifencing' on it. This ensures that horses can not kick through the fence line and if any of the rails break that the rails do not fall apart.
As regards water troughs these should be made of plastic as horses have been known to fracture their legs as a result of kicking metal water troughs.
A recent court case demonstrated that owners of horses need to have third party liability insurance to the value of £10,000,000 (Ten Million Pounds) for each of their horses so that in the event of them escaping and causing an accident they have sufficient cover as in law it is the owner of the horse who is responsible for the accident caused by their horse whether it is their fault or not.
However, if it could be demonstrated that the owner of the yard did not have sufficiently good fencing in place or did not maintain it correctly then a claim could be made against them by the insurers of the horse so it is important that yard owners have fencing of an acceptable standard in place and that they have a formal procedure for regularly checking the fencing and keep recors of it so that they can demonstrate that they have done everything necessary to ensure that horses can not escape from their premises.
Like any other commercial business yard owners need to be very much more aware of their responsibilities and duty of care to the animals and people on their land. This can be demonstrated by the number of civil cases that have been taken against yard owners in recent years some of which have been reported in the equestrian press.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I'm a bit narky today, but I wanted to ask you that for a long time now:
do you ALWAYS post the same bit of info?:o
TBH, the solutions suggested by you are just financially unrealistic.
 
I think the OP said that her horse had a wound to the coronet band, this is why she has got it on box rest as the field is very muddy. I would expect the YO to clear anything that could endanger horses that she is charging to live there.

Hope neddy is looking better today
 
ester said:
I have to say I am quite surprised at some of the responses on this thread, half the time on here we go on about the YO's responsibilities and duty of care whereas in this case it seems to be the OPs fault because her horse is the most frequently injured out of the herd :confused:. I also see nothing wrong with the OP choosing to keep her horse stabled for a day or so in order to keep the cuts clean if the field is really muddy.
Click to expand...

I think the issue here is more to do with the attitude of the OP, rather than the injury sustained. If the OP had phrased her comments slightly less dramatically and not apportioned blame, but asked what we would do in that situation she may have had less backlash! At the moment she comes across as a stroppy, uncooperative, teenager!
 
OWLIE185 said:
The best fencing one can get is 'Heavy Duty Post and Rail' fencing with 'Equifencing' on it. This ensures that horses can not kick through the fence line and if any of the rails break that the rails do not fall apart.
As regards water troughs these should be made of plastic as horses have been known to fracture their legs as a result of kicking metal water troughs.
A recent court case demonstrated that owners of horses need to have third party liability insurance to the value of £10,000,000 (Ten Million Pounds) for each of their horses so that in the event of them escaping and causing an accident they have sufficient cover as in law it is the owner of the horse who is responsible for the accident caused by their horse whether it is their fault or not.
However, if it could be demonstrated that the owner of the yard did not have sufficiently good fencing in place or did not maintain it correctly then a claim could be made against them by the insurers of the horse so it is important that yard owners have fencing of an acceptable standard in place and that they have a formal procedure for regularly checking the fencing and keep recors of it so that they can demonstrate that they have done everything necessary to ensure that horses can not escape from their premises.
Like any other commercial business yard owners need to be very much more aware of their responsibilities and duty of care to the animals and people on their land. This can be demonstrated by the number of civil cases that have been taken against yard owners in recent years some of which have been reported in the equestrian press.
Click to expand...

A landowner is only required to have stockproof fencing. If the barbed wire and brambles keep the animals in, then he is fulfilling his resposiblity, it is up to you as an owner whether to turn your horse out into a field with such fencing, your choice.

My horses have been turned out in fields fenced with barbed wire, sheep wire, with lots of brambles (my sec B is rather fond of blackberries) and metal water troughs for as long as I've owned them, yet the worst they've suffered injury wise is the odd stratch and bump, it's very rare for them to rip their rugs even!

That said, my YO asked me the other day if I was breaking my boy to harness as she'd found him carrying a branch across his shoulders!
 
marmalade76 said:
My horses have been turned out in fields fenced with barbed wire,
Click to expand...

I think you have been both foolhardy and lucky. In my experience, horses should never be turned out in paddocks fenced with barbed wire unless it is also protected by an electric wire to keep them away from it. Barbed wire and horses is asking for trouble. Thirty years ago my horse nearly severed a foot at a livery stables with barbed wire and I have not turned out in fields with non-electrified barbed wire boundaries since, though I seen dozens of injuries, some life-threatening, on horses who have.
 
Last edited:
You have been both foolhardy and lucky
Click to expand...

Rubbish. All my horses have been turned out in fields with stock fencing and barbed wire, and never come to any harm.

Well maintained and strung, there is little chance of damage, any more than using post and rail (which in fact has caused the worst injury I have ever seen - how the horse survived I will never know).

A few years ago a friends horse was destroyed after putting it's leg through a gate - should we stop using those now?
 
Last edited:
cptrayes said:
You have been both foolhardy and lucky. Horses should never be turned out in paddocks fenced with barbed wire unless it is also protected by an electric wire to keep them away from it. Barbed wire and horses is asking for trouble. Thirty years ago my horse nearly severed a foot at a livery stables with barbed wire and I have not turned out in fields with non-electrified barbed wire boundaries since, though I seen dozens of injuries, some life-threatening, on horses who have.
Click to expand...

OMG, haven't I been lucky!?! All the horses I've had and all the others that have been kept at the same place as mine all survived the barber wire, must be pure luck alone :rolleyes: The only life threatening injury I can recall was when one horse fell through a manhole cover (not my horse).

BTW, the barbed wire is two strands at the top, the rest is sheep wire.
 
I took it that the OP kept her Horse in, as field was muddy and wanted to keep cuts clean and in the mean time mend the broken fencing and cut the brambles back. Should take 1-2 days.

My Horse is in a post and rail field, although down the long side it is barbed wire, with hedges all along. Never had an issue with any of the Horses cutting themselves.
 
Mine are also out in fields with barbed wire running along the wooden rails. I don't like it and wouldn't keep a foal there but thats the price I pay for grass livery. The alternative is individual paddocks with very limited winter turnout.
I don't like electric fencing with plastic posts having seen a horse fatally injured by the spike on a post that got dragged out of the ground and the horse entangled in the tape.
 
amymay said:
Rubbish. All my horses have been turned out in fields with stock fencing and barbed wire, and never come to any harm.

Well maintained and strung, there is little chance of damage, any more than using post and rail (which in fact has caused the worst injury I have ever seen - how the horse survived I will never know).

A few years ago a friends horse was destroyed after putting it's leg through a gate - should we stop using those now?
Click to expand...

You've never even had a rug scored across the chest? Lucky you. It happens all the time to my friend's rugs in a paddock with topclass post and three rail wooden fencing and a line of very taut barbed wire on the top. She regularly complains that her sheep farmer husband insists on it. And in December, when her horse took fright at a piece of flapping plastic in the field and he decided to go over it and got stuck on the top, he'd ripped the his legs with cuts from top to bottom before he got clear.

Is there really any necessity for the nonsense of your last sentence in this debate?
 
Last edited:
cptrayes said:
You've never even had a rug scored across the chest? Lucky you.
Click to expand...

No I haven't.

Is there really any necessity for the nonsense of your last sentence in this debate?
Click to expand...

Well, I'm afraid if you're going to use the 'barbed wire is the work of the devil' card, then yes, I'm going to use the 'should we use anything that's a potential hazard' card.

The important thing with any fencing is that it is well maintained. With stock and barbed wire fencing - it must be taught, and the posts in tact. If there's any doubt about it's suitability (and I agree about youngstock and foals) then you also run electric fencing a meter in from the fencing.

With post and rail, the wood must be sound, with no rotting, and ground posts solid and unmoving.

Broken or damaged post and rail can cause as much damage as any other type of fencing.

If we're only talking about the aesthetics of fencing - then of course post and rail wins hands down. But few people can actually afford to fence with that - and stock fencing is pretty standard. And so providing the fencing was in good order, I wouldn't hesitate to turn any horse of mine out in a field fenced in this way.

As for your friends horse's accident - I do sympathise. Especially having seen something similar (again with post and rail fencing, with a youngster). Really not good.

However, sometimes despite our best efforts, accidents will happen - regardless of how safe we make the environment for the horse.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top