Brand new to barefoot

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samleigh

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I have taken my mare barefoot, eeek! After a long discussion with my Farrier, we have decided that we have nothing to lose as we cannot keep her sound, even in very light work in remedial shoes.

Mare is 8years old, ISH.
Its nearly a year since I first began taking photo's, questioning my old farrier and talking to my vet regarding my mares on/off lameness regarding her foot balance. My mare had a MRI in May 17, results showing, sidebone forming on the left fore and inflammation in both front feet resulting from medial lateral imbalance + other issues ie heels. I was advised to remedial shoe and found a great farrier who had done his dissertation in her particular problem. She isn't straight forward as she has a conformation flaw with her Right Fore leg.

The shoes were removed last Thursday, after the farrier said there was no more he could achieve by continuing to shoe remedially.
My mare has only walked from stable (rubber mats & wood pellets) to her Turnout paddock, on a mixture of concrete, light gravel/Mud & grass & is now sore & its breaking my heart to see her struggling.

In hindsight I shouldn't have allowed him to trim her foot/sole after shoe removal..

I don't have the option to leave her out 24/7 on grass at the moment (Livery) but could possibly move her and turn her away for the winter with some in hand walking when she hopefully becomes more comfortable, would this be the most beneficial for her.

Would you consider Bute to help with the transition period & please any other recommendations or experiences much appreciated.

She hasn't been worked for longer than 20mins in walk all year & that was mostly in hand..so turning away, not riding isn't a issue, although obviously I would love this to be a success story and be riding and competing again..

& Could you please advise on her diet, she has also been treated for ulcers this year, is this suitable for a bare footer too?

1 scoop of Emerald Green Grass chaff
100g linseed
Progressive Earth Pro Hoof Balancer
Protexin Gut Balancer
Split into 2 x feeds.
Unlimited hay & Grazed 6hrs per day.

Thanks for reading :-)
 
Can't help so much with going barefoot for the issues, my lad is barefoot due to him having good feet and he throws shoes in the in the winter so have given up having them on! He can a be a bit footy still on the stony ground up the track from the stable to main bit of the yard but fine on concrete and tarmac. I let him choose where to walk as much as I can but there is a bit where he just sort of stumbles over but I am just hoping he gets used to it as time goes on and its about 2 strides so not worth shoeing just for that!

Is she just sore when walking out to the paddock or is she sore all of the time? If sore just walking out, could you either try popping boots on her to help her to the field and then you could build up the in hand walking on more level ground?

Re diet, could you get a lower sugar chaff? 10% sugar is quite high for both ulcers and barefoot, something like Healthy Hooves molasses free only has 4% total sugar and starch.. I'm sure there are loads of others too with less sugar..not sure how much difference a scoop makes between 2 feeds but every little helps IMO! :) Good luck!
 
My ex-racer had his shoes off following KS surgery as I wasn't sure he could cope with the whole shoeing process (he was bad to shoe at the best of times). He was v sore for about 2 weeks, but was on box rest so not the end of the world & he was on a ton of danilon etc for post surgical pain. Then his feet improved by the time we got onto in-hand walking (on grass). 2 1/2 years on, he is perfectly sound b/f whereas he used to be crippled if he lost a shoe. He hated being shod & now his feet look far healthier. He has developed a good frog & concavity. I used to think that b/f-ers were deluded, but now I'm a complete convert!
 
Thank you for replying, she came out of her stable this morning and stopped dead, with a big ouch. I watched her in her paddock and she was more comfortable but not brilliant either. Her paddock is smallish so not a huge amount of natural movement.
I have had B/F horses in the past, but already transitioned and honestly sometimes Ignorance can be bliss as I never gave it a 2nd thought except occasionally when they were verge hugging on a stone track.

Will change her chaff, luckily at the end of the bag !
 
Sorry if your horse is struggling you do not just let it continue.
You either stable on a soft surface, give bute (with veterinary direction) or boot or shoe the horse. No horse shoudl be in daily pain walking around its paddock or to or from its paddock and this is what you are describing.
 
She needs to be comfortable so I would use boots for turnout or stable her with a deep bed and bute her if necessary. However I wouldn’t shoe her, as clearly they are (mostly!) masking this quite serious lameness, so you’re doing the right thing! Unless she’s thin, I would just feed hay and a mineral lick at this point. Some feeds cause issues in some horses and not others. Protexin is full of sugar. Grass based dried feeds can be quite high in sugar.
 
You get pads that go inside boots too, like insoles, to help with very sensitive feet. My old mare got laminitis after a general anaesthetic and she lived out in her padded boots for weeks with no issues - you need to be careful of fit though so that they don't rub.
 
SusieT said:
Sorry if your horse is struggling you do not just let it continue.
You either stable on a soft surface, give bute (with veterinary direction) or boot or shoe the horse. No horse shoudl be in daily pain walking around its paddock or to or from its paddock and this is what you are describing.
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Nooooo! The problems have likely been caused by shoes, and the op has already said remedial shoes haven't helped. Just banging more shoes on will not sort this poor mare out, at best they'll mask the issues as she deteriorates. And standing around in a stable on soft bedding will do nothing whatsoever to move her forwards.

You need to try to keep her as comfortable as you can while she's transitioning. Boots, with pads if necessary, and in hand walking building up from a few minutes a day. I wouldn't give her Bute, just try to help her by letting her take her time, laying down rubber mats between stable and turnout, or booting for this. Bute might tempt her to do more than she's ready to do.

It sounds like this is make or break, OP, and I have been there so I know your pain. Speaking from experience I would also advise you to educate yourself as much as you can, read Nic Barker's books for instance. Question your farrier (Like "Why the heck are you taking sole/wall off a horse that is already struggling and is just coming out of shoes???!!!) and ideally get yourself a good barefoot trimmer. Farriers that can actually trim a performance barefoot horse, especially a tricky one, seem to be like hen's teeth.
 
stencilface said:
Get some boots for turnout and in the meantime pad them with vetrap and duct tape.
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This^^. You'll want some you can get pads in, probably the more "chunky" ones that are more forgiving fit-wise (but no good for fast work etc). You can probably get some secondhand if you have a look at facebook, ebay etc. There's plenty of guidance available online about different types, some fit different hoof shapes better than others.

Also, have you checked for any infection? If she has been wearing heatbars or other similar remedial shoes she may well have some thrush going on which won't help her comfort levels.

If she's that sore then I would consider bute for a short while too. Turning away for the winter might be a good idea later (depending on the type of turnout) but you need to get her comfy in the field before that can be considered.
 
How hard is your paddock ATM? Yes it is a shame farrier trimmed (and they really ought to know better really, that a bit of length isn't gong to be a bad thing to start)

Turnout is the only time I suggest cavallos in the first instance, potentially with pads, though probably not cavallo pads as they are quite hard, some soft easyboot ones perhaps. Take some photos of her soles with a tape measure for length and width and speak to one of the boot shops about sizing, get some man sized socks to go in too to stop rubbing.

and absolutely get her some bute, if she is really that sore I would leave her in on a good conformable bed until the boots arrive, and get her some regular physio/bodywork as they make themselves sore elsewhere if the feet are sore.
 
Hi OP... please don't take this the wrong way and I salute you, your farrier and your vet but I would now advise to get a barefoot specialist now to help you get the very best outcome for your horse. Anyone with an AANHCP or EPAUK qualification is regulated and insured (although only EPAUK are recognised by DEFRA for examinations now I believe - look up website) will be able to help you with the correct boots, pads, nutritional pov and trim and work with your vet and farrier if need be.

I think you've had some great advice already but there is nothing like having someone who specialises in barefoot rehabilitations to really see you through this and your horse in comfort.

When I first took this journey 7/8 years ago, I don't think I would have been so successful as there is a lot more to it than just feet with no shoes on and I learned so much along the way.
 
Oh yes, I forgot, frog health/lack of infection is v important. My TB - I spray his feet 2 x a week with Red Horse sole cleanse - soles & walls. At the w'end I put Red Horse field paste in the grooves each side of the frog, in the frog central groove (it has tightened up a lot since he's been b/f) & on the white line. The Shetland just gets her feet sprayed 3 x week. When I first switched to a b/f trimmer, I also did a proper soak in CleanTrax as advised, using a poultice boot for the TB. It did make a big difference.
 
Landcruiser said:
You need to try to keep her as comfortable as you can while she's transitioning. .
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You need to keep her comfortbale full stop - not as 'comfortable as you can' . The horse has a right to be free of pain not forced to walk on surfaces causing it pain.
 
SusieT said:
You need to keep her comfortbale full stop - not as 'comfortable as you can' . The horse has a right to be free of pain not forced to walk on surfaces causing it pain.
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In shoes she was *only* as comfortable as she could be too hence she was lame and not free of pain! To get her free of pain she would need immediately shot, far better to have some discomfort but perhaps save her life first!

Good point about thrush OP. Make sure she hasn’t got that. Some pics would be a good idea. Rockley style taken at the right angle.
 
No - you do not make horses more lame without changing their management - It is not far off torture making horses walk over surfaces that cripple them or presnet the ' shuffling/ouchie' appearance - it is cruel.
Shod or not shod if it's lame you need to provide soft standing and pain relief if that is what is required to make them comfortable.
 
SusieT said:
No - you do not make horses more lame without changing their management - It is not far off torture making horses walk over surfaces that cripple them or presnet the ' shuffling/ouchie' appearance - it is cruel.
Shod or not shod if it's lame you need to provide soft standing and pain relief if that is what is required to make them comfortable.
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At no point did I say the horse should be walking over surfaces that cause pain. Perhaps you should read the thread before spouting off.
 
I could have almost written your post last summer OP with my ISH.

He'd had two separate ligament issues, one that caused him to go on box rest and another mysteriously done whilst on box rest:cool3:

I decided to turn him away properly as it was becoming a vicious circle of injuries, never the same one twice but the good times in between we're getting ever shorter and I had an inkling that shoeing was partly the issue although he does have some early arthritic changes to a hind too.

... anyway, his fronts were flat and very thin soled, he needed remedial shoeing and could only go 4 weeks between sets at over £100 a time and his reaction when his shoes were first removed was just like that of your horse.

Good news is it did pass - the worst of it was from a couple of days after the shoes being removed to approx 2 weeks after. I got Cavallo boots front & back with pads in to do walking on anything other than grass as they were easy to get on and forgiving in sizing to adapt to his odd shaped feet and he was turned away to grass livery I think about 6 weeks later in the October.

Fast forward to now his feet are a totally different and better shape, both front & back have gone up a whole size in boots and we only need them in front to ride over stoney ground and don't really need hind boots at all - if we need them at any other time it's always a warning that there's some thrush hiding somewhere which gets blasted with red horse products.

He came back into work at the end of the spring no problems so hang on in there, get her comfy now by any means that you can, be brave and give it a few weeks:)
 
SusieT said:
No - you do not make horses more lame without changing their management - It is not far off torture making horses walk over surfaces that cripple them or presnet the ' shuffling/ouchie' appearance - it is cruel.
Shod or not shod if it's lame you need to provide soft standing and pain relief if that is what is required to make them comfortable.
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I think you take things to the extreme and too literally... what a dogmatic pov.

When a horse has a pathology inside the hoof then it is only possible to make the patient "as comfortable as possible"... if shoes, boots and Bute still only provide some relief and not 100% soundness, you can only do what you can. That goes for wounds, injuries and anything else - sometimes you can only do your best until things start to heal.
 
tallyho! said:
I think you take things to the extreme and too literally... what a dogmatic pov.

When a horse has a pathology inside the hoof then it is only possible to make the patient "as comfortable as possible"... if shoes, boots and Bute still only provide some relief and not 100% soundness, you can only do what you can. That goes for wounds, injuries and anything else - sometimes you can only do your best until things start to heal.
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Exactly.

Many many animals and people who are ill can only be made as comfortable as possible but short term “pain” for long term gain is accepted to be reasonable. This horse has been at best, uncomfortable for a long time despite being shod, and this is her best chance at living a long and comfortable life. It’s not normal for an 8yr old horse to be lame despite being remedially shod or crippled when the shoes come off!
 
SusieT said:
Shod or not shod if it's lame you need to provide soft standing and pain relief if that is what is required to make them comfortable.
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The trouble is, Susie, that these rehab horses need movement to get them to grow the foot they need to become sound again. Leaving them standing on a soft bed won't do it.

The level of pain relief required to stop a thin soled horse from feeling lumpy ground would destroy its liver. It's like you taking aspirin so you don't feel yourself prick your finger with a needle.

Not all horses can be turned out in boots. I've seen the most horrific rub on a horse as a result, not mine thankfully. The one in my avatar had feet that were, at the time, too big for any.

So what do you do? Let it limp for two or three weeks? Or shoot it?

The one in my avatar was so crippled that he could not stand on one foot to have the other foot shod. No-one sold boots that were big enough. I watched him limp for a month. Nine months later he was back BE at that level and he died six years later of colic.

Should I have shot him instead?
 
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OP well done for going BF, this is a really exciting and nerve wracking time but keep the faith that you are absolutely doing the right thing. As others have said you need to help keep her comfortable in any way you can but movement is the key to success and you know what, actually, she does need to walk on the ground she finds uncomfortable so her feet are stimulated to grow and toughen to that type of ground hence the rehab of walking on roads inhand, over different terrain ect. Little and often and regular work over these not so nice surfaces will make the transition to BF more successful.

I'll be back end of October completely paranoid and panicking ... yup, the shoes are coming off both of mine end of Oct and fingers crossed they wont ever be going back on :) Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Some good advice on here Samleigh and, by way of comfort that it can work out, my horse's fieldmate went barefoot last autumn because of ligament issues and the fact that frequent remedial shoeing was wrecking his already pretty rubbish hooves.

He is an ID, older than yours, and he has struggled at times - more when the ground was very hard over the summer than when first transitioning - but it has been so worth it. He is completely sound and his hooves are like those of a different horse. He wears boots all round when ridden, except if we are only on the road when he only wears fronts. He is in the Cavallo Simple boots and has never had a rub. Sometimes over the summer he has needed his boots on to come in from the field over the scalpings that make up our yard and gateways. His pain reaction is so severe that it makes both of us go "ouch" when he hops. However, he has been fine in the field and not needed any additional help there.

I don't think he will ever be as tough as my boy who is also barefoot and only wears front boots if we are planning to ride on our very stony tracks but the progress he has made in a year has been tremendous. They are both fed only chaff (and forage when needed) but he does have a dose of No Bute every day as he is also arthritic.

I second the idea of some padding and duct tape to help your mare while you sort out the best boots for her and a bit of pain relief shouldn't do any harm. Good luck - I hope it is the saving of her. My fieldmate's owner was looking at having to retire her boy and I know she is absolutely delighted with the progress he has made over the last year.
 
Thank you all, so much, I have made notes & I will post some photo's later today :-)
I am confident she doesn't have any thrush at the moment but I will start a more religious routine of disinfecting.
She is comfortable on grass and the difference last night after 7 hrs turn out on grass was noticeable, the ground is nice and soft. I put bedding all over her stable last night & this morning, altho short walking, had her ears forward and walked much better to her field. I also cut her feed back and changed to a lower sugar chaff last night. But I will arrange boots ASAP for her & I have some 25mm foam to duct tape to her hooves should I need it.
She also for the 1st time last night let me pick her back hooves out with no drama, as she has been reluctant to put her weight on her fronts even stood on her bedding.
I acknowledge I need to get her moving, so tonight I thought while she's most comfortable, straight from the field, up the lane, 100m of tarmac at most, there and back to start with...???
And today I will mainly be researching and hopefully talking to a trimmer for advice and help!
 
No advice to add but I just saw your last post and I'm so glad it's looking a little bit more positive - best of luck and I hope that things start to pick up soon. It's horrible watching loved animals suffer but I really hope all your care and hard work start to pay off.
 
SusieT said:
No - you do not make horses more lame without changing their management - It is not far off torture making horses walk over surfaces that cripple them or presnet the ' shuffling/ouchie' appearance - it is cruel.
Shod or not shod if it's lame you need to provide soft standing and pain relief if that is what is required to make them comfortable.
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And then what do you do?
 
samleigh said:
Thank you all, so much, I have made notes & I will post some photo's later today :-)
I am confident she doesn't have any thrush at the moment but I will start a more religious routine of disinfecting.
She is comfortable on grass and the difference last night after 7 hrs turn out on grass was noticeable, the ground is nice and soft. I put bedding all over her stable last night & this morning, altho short walking, had her ears forward and walked much better to her field. I also cut her feed back and changed to a lower sugar chaff last night. But I will arrange boots ASAP for her & I have some 25mm foam to duct tape to her hooves should I need it.
She also for the 1st time last night let me pick her back hooves out with no drama, as she has been reluctant to put her weight on her fronts even stood on her bedding.
I acknowledge I need to get her moving, so tonight I thought while she's most comfortable, straight from the field, up the lane, 100m of tarmac at most, there and back to start with...???
And today I will mainly be researching and hopefully talking to a trimmer for advice and help!
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Just read this whole thread. Yes if she is more comfortable I would do a very short walk. If after a few steps it's not going do well then come back.

Little by little, slowly slowly increase.

I'm really pleased she seems a little better. Keep on trudging!!!
 
If she is going out and she is sore I honestly wouldn't walk her just yet, certainly not until I had boots on hand.

Whereabouts are you? My own trimmer is on the UKNCHP list which I don't think was mentioned above.

Also you may want to join the barefoot for whole horse health group on facebook, it is the only fairly normal one ;).
 
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