Breaking a 5 YO (by Goshka Ringo) anyone else had problems :(

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Just a quick question I have sent my new 5 YO away to be broken by a local reputable person. He is a large KWPN by Goshka Ringo who was backed and turned away in the spring ( due to lack of time) he has always lived out with his buddies till 2 weeks ago where I have moved him and he is now starting again. He is proving to be a challange for her as he is like a baby lol. I think he is in shock tbh as he just does not want to work, doing anything to not!!, eg lying down when being led out of stable, stamping his feet all the time, napping when being lunged, being a pain i the arse basically. In 2 weeks he has now finally accepted being lunged with 2 reins, ( if you use 1 he will just try to nap to the gate!)
Anyone else had similar experience. he size and age dont really help but were all being very firm and perservering. Its so strange as to handle he is ok and she has legged up on him fine and sat on him bareback fine and tacked him up fine, but he still isnt ready really to be ridden :(

Any experiences would be appreciated

Also anyone else with similar breedings comment would be interesting hence the mention in the title :)
 
You may have already done this but haven't made mention in your post, are you sure the tack isn't hurting him (he has probably changed shape since he was backed and turned away), lying down etc seem a bit extreme (I knew a horse that threw itself to the ground when being tacked up, but this was because it had been a riding school horse and had spent years not being tacked up very kindly, got to the point where you tried to tighten the girth and it threw itself to the ground, the less than knowledgable people at the riding school had been yanking the girth up and making it uncomfortable), I'm not siggesting that the person sitting on him is doing this, but if the tack is uncomfortable and he's a bit of a baby he could be throwing the toys out the pram over this?
Just a thought.
 
a lot of these big warmblood types can be introverted, and not wanting to go forward. The smaller the area you are working them in the worse it will be.

It would be better to get him out hacking with another horse than lunging and working in a small space/arena.

He sounds really unhappy. My ISH was very unwilling to go forward when I bought him home from starting/training. I soon learnt that the smaller the space he was in the worse he got.

Do not ask too much of him, frame, contact etc, you just want him travelling anywhere.


If you can get some assitance from a NH/IH instructor.
 
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I think the bit where you said until two weeks ago he had only been with his buddies in the field is a big clue to how he feels at the moment.
It's a huge shock to his system to be uprooted like that, lose his friends and have new people handling him and then expected to start to learn as well. In hindsight it might have been better to have moved him but given him a lot longer time to settle in and get his feet under the table before he started his training.
I know you expect it of an older horse to be able to crack on but a youngster has so much less history of experience, he only knew his friends and former home; it's bound to take time. I would turn him away as in turned out during the day and get into the stable routine before asking him to go on, just for a bit longer, it might pay dividends later once he's settled and happy.
 
Im not breaking him someone else is, And we have not ridden him in any tack he has only had a roller on. I think i know this sounds daft but he is just very upset. He has improved this week which is positive
He just is a unhappy boy!!
She is hoping to try riding him this week all being well, he has been ridden bareback fine, I had one before that lay down whilst being lunged lol but he soon stopped
He goes on the walker fine but if it stops he stamps his feet lol
 
hiya, i am an equine behaviourist and maybe i can offer some advice......
you have to try and see this from his point of view. he has been living the life of riley, in a field with his buddies, and nothing has really been expected of him.

i would suggest you take a step backwards and give the horse some insentive to work. use a reward technique fr him. either a lot of praise when small amounts of progress. my method would be, ......

fill my pocket with a handfull of pony nuts. as your first walk in the stable, you give go in without any headcollar, give him a good scratch and hand him one (just one) pony nut. and walk away. then go in with a brush, give him a 5 mins brush, and reward with one pony nut. next come s the head collar, reward with nut. then to walk to arena (in-hand) reward again. walk around the arena, reward again.

this sounds like a tedious method, but this horse sounds like a backward thinking horse, and needs an incentive to be with you/trainer and incentive to work. for every small step, give reward. eventually replace the nuts with a scratch if wish. trust me, it really wont take very long to get to the stage where you can just give a treat when changing the rein when lunging and when dismounting after ridden work. give him lots of praise when he has done the right thing, and never punish him for doing wrong. just ignore it and put him back on the correct path. please fel free to pm me for anymore advice. i hope this helps you. good luck with your horse :D
 
milliemay said:
hiya, i am an equine behaviourist and maybe i can offer some advice......
you have to try and see this from his point of view. he has been living the life of riley, in a field with his buddies, and nothing has really been expected of him.

i would suggest you take a step backwards and give the horse some insentive to work. use a reward technique fr him. either a lot of praise when small amounts of progress. my method would be, ......

fill my pocket with a handfull of pony nuts. as your first walk in the stable, you give go in without any headcollar, give him a good scratch and hand him one (just one) pony nut. and walk away. then go in with a brush, give him a 5 mins brush, and reward with one pony nut. next come s the head collar, reward with nut. then to walk to arena (in-hand) reward again. walk around the arena, reward again.

this sounds like a tedious method, but this horse sounds like a backward thinking horse, and needs an incentive to be with you/trainer and incentive to work. for every small step, give reward. eventually replace the nuts with a scratch if wish. trust me, it really wont take very long to get to the stage where you can just give a treat when changing the rein when lunging and when dismounting after ridden work. give him lots of praise when he has done the right thing, and never punish him for doing wrong. just ignore it and put him back on the correct path. please fel free to pm me for anymore advice. i hope this helps you. good luck with your horse :D
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Thanks we are trying the reward method- and only being firm as in positive as he is a big lad, im going tomorrow to do some more ground work along side my trainer. he is so lovely I want it to be right :)
 
no similarities with breeding but i do have a 10 yr old late starter who just doesn't seem to understand the work ethic! And TBH it's not his fault, although well handled and even tacked up by his previous owner he'd never 'worked' he spent 6 years doing as he wanted with his buddies in a field. He is still in that same mindset, 'working' is hard for him physically and mentally so he doesn't want to do it, he wants to be back in the field with his mates not going round and round an arena:rolleyes: We're building up his work slowly and trying to make it varied so that he doesn't switch off, hopefully going to get him hacking out with his best buddie soon to give him something to think about, :)
Oh and he hates lunging but will long line quite happily:)
 
It’s probably how I’d expect him to act, he’s a 5 yr WB being brought back into work after been sent to a strange place and being handled by a new person, it can takes weeks for a any horse let alone a young horse to settle before you start working them if they have moved yards and even then expect the tantrums, I wouldn’t worry to much, just make sure that is nothing physically wrong with him, that his tack fits well and that the person that is re-starting him is not trying to blow his brains with too much or at least expect too much of him too soon.
 
I think sometimes with babies when they don't know what to do they literally shut down. A friend of mine brought a horse over from Spain, a little 5 yr old. He point blank refused to move from the field gate. Planted himself and NOTHING could persuade him. It seemed that he was so overwhelmed from the travelling and being in a new place he just did not know what to do- you could literally see his eyes glaze over and he switched off.
I agree that the best thing to do would be to hack him and make work interesting for him. I never school babies in a sand school when they first start work as I think it teaches them to think backwards. You can achieve so much on a hack with regards to manners and responsiveness and then when they are forward, willing and stronger work in the school. Also lunging on a circle for a big horse is hard work! Maybe he really is just finding it too much??
 
Sounds like he is a bit unsettled and a lot how very dare you ask me to work, don't you know I just chill with my mates!!

Hope that makes sense
 
As someone mentioned. Life of Riley or my way or no way syndrome. I would have sent him in to starter person and asked for the first 2 weeks for him settle into a routine. Such as in and out, regular groomings, feed on time ect. This just let's him know life has changed a bit. I know that people don't often want to pay for that but the other way is to push and force. I started many horses for people and the older they were the more time you had to take establishing a routine such as above. These were the most obstinate horses to start always. And then most people have assumed since they've done the "right" thing by letting them mature physically they can just get them started and go straight to work. It would actually be easier to start one of this age that had very very little handling as opposed to one with lots of handling. In short you have asked very little of your horse and he quite likes it that way.

However is breaking your youngster should really know this and talked to you about giving him a settle in period before starting work. Although this is tricky because owner is going to think he's getting screwed for money. So if anyone says to me I want to bring my 5 YO over and want them going properly in 5 weeks I explain things as above. It can be done but not real beneficial to horse. Had a 4yo come in with "impeccable" manners, aka was good for the blacksmith and came in and out of the field. He was exactly as you described. Threw his toys out of the pram every chance he got. Owner says well he has to be going as we have a show in 6 weeks. Ok so the point of letting him mature physically was what exactly? There is the mental side which everyone seems to forget.

Talk to your trainer and see if you can back up and let him have a semi routine which will prepare him for work. You up ended his world. New place and new people. Give him a chance. And it has zero to do with breed.

Terri
 
Seems to me this young horse lacks confidance, he needs a slow gentle approach, which i'm sure you will give him.
Just don't have any expectations, every one elses horses always seem to be flying along it can be frustrating.
Near me a young cob has been sent away for breaking to harness, after 3 weeks its back and being driven by a complete novice.
Every time i see them i hope that they will be ok, but we all know its an accident waiting to happen.
The problem with breaking and schooling is that every one knows someone that just got on an it was ok:eek:
I know your not that type of person but it can be hard when you have one of the more backward thinking horses.
Good luck with time he will come right:)
 
Im not sure if some off you have read my original post and im a little confused. He has been sent away to be broken which is normal?? and he is 5 which to me is a little late to be broken I prefer to do it at 4 really. He has had what I would call a normal life till now and its just most horses I have sent to be broken in the past have gone and accepted it but he doesnt, what I mean is dont most people send them away to be broken proffesionally valueing an experts approach and training. What I mean is his reaction to being broken is he doesnt seem to be very willing lol, and wondered if anyone else had similar experiences of this, as in a 5 year old, or similar breeding etc etc
He is fine to groom, handle all that he just seems unwilling to work!! and I can hack him yet until he is broken to saddle at the moment so hacking out isnt a possibility atm.
But despite all this thanks for all your comments I have read them all :)
 
My mare was a bit like this and so we just got on with it but she did lay down when i first took her out in the field (we had no arena) we put the saddel on she took off across the field then we added something and it was like how dare you ask me to work. In the end i knew we had brakes a bit and a bit of steering so she went out hacking on her own and a couple of times with a buddy round the village and got her going that way. just was not interested otherwise and soooo lazy. she was broken at 3 in the summer as she was 16.2 then. I think by 5 they are more set and ****** and stronger. need less to say we had 2 big army helicopters land in the field next to where we were schooling and jum,ping last night and she didnt bat an eye lid.
 
He's been 'in work' for 2 weeks - age doesn't really matter - that's not much time! I have a VERY well-bred (dressage) 4 year old here at present who has taken 7 weeks to get to (just about) accepting the saddle!! If we'd tried to go faster she would undoubtedly have killed me - or herself! She is the most nervous horse I have ever had to deal with and requires at least 5 times more repetition of every step before it sinks in!

The fastest I ever backed a horse was 5 days - she was a 3 year old ID filly who'd done a lot of in-hand showing. Her 10 year old brood mare mother who arrived with her took 6 weeks to get to the same stage - the older horse is often not AS receptive to new ideas!

It sounds to me as if your trainer is perhaps moving a little quickly - and not getting the basics firmly established before moving on to the next step. Some trainers DO have a time-table in their head - one week to get to point A, and another week to get to point B. It works with 95% of horses - but NOT at all with the other 5%! And that 5% then gets branded as 'difficult', or 'stupid' - or even 'unbreakable'!

IME, VERY few youngsters are truly 'ready to be ridden' in two weeks - though with lots you can get away with it! But 'getting away with it' is one thing - getting a good and lasting result is another!
 
hi, I have had similar experiences with a warm blood I had, have you had its back checked or his teeth? as sometimes it could be a internal problem. just don't expect to much of big horses hope you resolve your problem.

Zac French
 
Hi , I've had 4 ringo babies all seriously forward mares and one colt who was a bit of a lazy sod At first but who vame good . I don't think it's a ringo trait to be problematic
 
I think you just have to take time , set no time limits and let the trainer progress the horse as slowly as it takes .
My first step would be to remove all pressure in the school for a while I would handle , turnout daily , groom play on with tacking up lead around the yard where ever else was safe then go into the school lead round have a bit of a chat and put away.
Might do this twice a day ( 2 x 20 mins )
Its not good if the school becomes a place of confrontation they must enjoy the training .
For five years he's done his own thing it might just take a while for the penny to drop that he's got to do something.
IME it's harder to start 5 YO's than younger horses .
 
I do quite a few warmbloods and some are just negative. It's these however that normally turn out the best IF you do them right!
If he were mine I would loose school him in tack and then bite the bullet and hop on and brave it our hacking with another sensible horse. Hacking works wonders and chances are once he enjoys work he will start to go forwards in the school.
 
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