Breaking an adult?

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NoseyPosey

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I'm sure the question of breaking (or is it backing?) a horse has been asked before but my situation is sightly different. Rosie has been a broodmare for the first 13 years of her life and I was told she had only been broken a year ago which didn't bother me as I like a project. I saw her being ridden by the owner and rode her myself before I bought her. Having got her settled in with the other 2 horses I waited for a week before the temptation of getting on her got too strong and tried her out just in our field. She tacked up lovely, was nice & calm as I got on her and she was kept on a long rope whilst I rode her. Just as I thought things were going well, a bird scarer went off in the next field (she'd heard them already several times a day) and started rearing so much that one of the reigns snapped, I was thrown off & then stamped on, breaking my collarbone in the process.

I'm on the mend now and it hasn't put me off - if anything I'd like to use the recovery time to put in some ground work with her so I'd like to know if anyone can suggest a simple timetable or plan that I can use to start again with her. I'm assuming I need to go back to basics and get acquainted with her properly so how do I go about breaking an adult horse? I've looked at the book "From birth to backing" but obviously from the title it deals with breaking a youngster.
 
I would treat her EXACTLY as you would a youngster. Lots of ground work, long lining and walking out inhand is beneficial for the backing process. Treat her as though nothing has been done. When it does come to backing get a trusted, reliable person on the ground. I wouldn't back until she is relaxed and happy lunging or long lining and is obedient to vocal commands - especially stand!!
 
So is there a simple program/timetable I can use eg. - Week 1, walk out every day in hand, starting & stopping with voice commands. Week 2, start lungeing, Week 3, long reign etc.

I know it's a big ask and every horse will be different but I find the books a bit confusing when a training program would help simplify things before using books.
 
I just go with the flow! If the horse looks and feels ready to move on then we do, if there are still some issues we go back a step to something easy before moving back to the issue. I think the worst thing you can do is put a timescale on things. Can you get a good trainer/instructor to lend a hand?
 
I think giving her a break to settle in whilst your collarbone heals would be a good idea. I know its tempting to start riding straight away, but we usually give a new horse at least a week to just chill out and settle into a new routine after the stress of moving before getting on. And that's ones that have been broken and riding for years!
I think giving her a break and starting from scratch is a good idea. Follow the advice in your book, Richard Maxwells exercises and techniques are great for horses of all ages. Some of the groundwork exercises, such as long reining, you may get on fine with, but don't go it alone if you're struggling with her. She's a big lass (I'm guessing!) so don't rule out getting someone experienced to come and give you a hand. x
 
maisie06 said:
Can you get a good trainer/instructor to lend a hand?
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My fiance is an experienced horse owner but I find myself sharing her time with her daughter whenever we go to the stables and sometimes she confuses me as much as a book so I thought it'd be good to have a rough order of stuff to work to in case I want to go and do stuff on my own. Is there a rough order to breaking then?
 
Make sure you do some long reining when the bird scarers are going off! As you say just make sure there is groundwork in there so you are treating her as green despite the age. You'll get the feel of how fast to move once you know her better. It is unsettling for most horses moving yards and they can take a couple of months to properly settle into a new routine. I am guessing you stayed to the same feeding regime and did not up the feed until you know her and how she reacts. I also take with a pinch of salt what some sellers say they have fed...
 
Laura-C said:
I think giving her a break to settle in whilst your collarbone heals would be a good idea. I know its tempting to start riding straight away, but we usually give a new horse at least a week to just chill out and settle into a new routine after the stress of moving before getting on.
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Oh no, I'm not even thinking about getting back on a horse for a couple of months and then it'll be the other 2 "safe" ones we have - I was just wondering how to use the time on the ground whilst I recover.
Laura-C said:
She's a big lass (I'm guessing!) so don't rule out getting someone experienced to come and give you a hand. x
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yeh, 17HH shire. She's already been nicknamed "Tankgirl" by the family :D
 
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When you are ready to ride her again - make sure that she has a neck strap on (an old sirrup leather, martingale or hunting breastplate etc... will do fine) because if she ever does go up again, you can grab the neck strap. :)
 
Agree with all of the above...I am currently backing my rising 8 yo...he was a stallion until last year...he is fantastic temperament-wise but verrry verrry verrry spooky...he has been bitted a long time ago and tacked up etc but never really got going...so I've treated him like my youngster and started from scratch with him...in some ways he's quicker with some things as he doesn't have the youngster mind...but in others, because he's a grown-up he has taken some persuading that I am perfectly capable of making the decisions!
I think the time you spend on the ground with them is really really invaluable, particularly with an older horse, to establish a bond and leadership....so I think your new plan sounds ideal.
Keep us posted - am very interested in this subject, for obvious reasons!
 
Well I tried join up with Rosie yesterday after watching Martin Clunes the other night and it worked a treat. It took a couple of goes at chase/stand still but she got it and she now respects my "bubble" which is definately a start. She backs up now as well and I didn't even need to use the halter & lead rope to get her back into her field as she followed me & stopped exactly when I started & stopped. An excellent start to her re-training I think :cool:
 
I've been doing a bit more with her since join-up and I've noticed she does actually seem to want to be with me now. I've taken her out for a couple of walks making sure I use voice commands and correcting her if she hasn't done what I ask and I've tried little things like walking her over some pine poles & getting her to back up. Yesterday I tried free lungeing her in an enclosed area and I think that went quite well so how do I go about advancing? I guess some aspects should be repeated each time to reinforce what she's learnt and it's quite apparant that she has done some stuff before but I'm wondering what I should be doing next & if there are any certain routines I should pay attention to. What I mean by this is I've been making sure that she wears her bridle for work and work is done in the enclosed area for example. After we've finished work, I'll take the bridle off, make fuss of her etc, lead her back into the field in her headcollar and then groom her. Is this sort of thing a good idea so she knows when she has to work & when to relax? Also, how & when should de-sensitising be done? She doesn't really like her legs being touched so I'm going to try a glove on a stick but I've also been laying lead ropes across her back and round her legs. Should this sort of thing be kept seperate from "work" or can it be done all the time? Finally, at the risk of repeating a question again - what order should I train her? I've got in my mind:

1. WALK IN HAND
2. LUNGE
3. LONG REIGN
4. PUT WEIGHT ON HER BACK
5. LEAN ACROSS HER BACK
6. TRY MOUNTING & GETTING OFF AGAIN OVER A FEW DAYS
etc. etc.
 
maisie06 said:
I would treat her EXACTLY as you would a youngster. Lots of ground work, long lining and walking out inhand is beneficial for the backing process. Treat her as though nothing has been done. When it does come to backing get a trusted, reliable person on the ground. I wouldn't back until she is relaxed and happy lunging or long lining and is obedient to vocal commands - especially stand!!
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+1

Remember that she also has a lot more years of getting certain ideas fixed in her head, so as well as learning she's probably unlearning some habits as well. So things need repeating and reassuring just as much as a youngster, go at both your speeds, not what you decide from the start. Same with the order, some things need a more defined order, some don't.

Do lots of manners and listening on the ground, loose as well as when working to make sure she listens. Talk to her lots, then if something spooks her when you're on her back she can hear that you're in control. Mine on the ground will snap out of most panics if she hears my voice, whether it's a calming conversation or a loud 'Stand' dependant on situation.

Pan
 
Rosieshire said:
Also, how & when should de-sensitising be done? She doesn't really like her legs being touched so I'm going to try a glove on a stick but I've also been laying lead ropes across her back and round her legs. Should this sort of thing be kept seperate from "work" or can it be done all the time?
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I tend to treat all of this kind of stuff as part of 'work'..after all, you're doing it in order to desensitise them to things that may happen when they are 'working'...so it's all part of the same IMO..
I've found lots of leg brushing has also been helpful for not liking legs to be touched...sacrificed an old wooden long handled back scrubbing brush to help me get all round and still be out of the kick zone...hand on a stick also very good..:)
Sounds like you are doing great together. :D
 
i think you've got your training order right:) but just because you have completed a stage don't make the mistake of moving on and not repeating previous stages again:) keep up with the long lining especially i think, good for enforcing voice commands which are invaluable;) if you intend to hack out then lots of walking out in hand to get used to traffic and different sounds and sights:)
 
Cobiau Cymraeg Wyllt said:
I tend to treat all of this kind of stuff as part of 'work'..after all, you're doing it in order to desensitise them to things that may happen when they are 'working'...so it's all part of the same IMO..
I've found lots of leg brushing has also been helpful for not liking legs to be touched...sacrificed an old wooden long handled back scrubbing brush to help me get all round and still be out of the kick zone...hand on a stick also very good..:)
Sounds like you are doing great together. :D
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I treat most of this as play. Turning it into something fun. Jumping at things moving, became chasing dog tug toys and carrots that were lobbed round the field or standing for things chucked at her feet as sometimes they contained food. Jumpy at any body contact, became wrapping herself round me for carrots. Legs I'd give them a good old brush and brush a bit lower each day, normally while still scratching bum with other hand and chatting, etc. I made it all stuff to be fun. Not to say it shouldn't be done as work too (essential) but mine certainly loved playing in the field and it makes introducing it in new environments a lot easier :)

Pan
 
Cobiau Cymraeg Wyllt said:
I've found lots of leg brushing has also been helpful for not liking legs to be touched...sacrificed an old wooden long handled back scrubbing brush to help me get all round and still be out of the kick zone...hand on a stick also very good..:)
Sounds like you are doing great together. :D
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It's funny - I tried the glove on a stick method last night but she wasn't going to have a bit of it. I let her sniff it and thought I'd try touching her in the less sensitive areas first before trying her feet as she's been extremely shy about them since I've had her but she just did not like the glove being anywhere near her.

Instead I tried grooming her fairly roughly and working my way down the legs in the same manner as not to make a fuss and she was fine!! I can't help think that people have made too much fuss about picking up her (massive) feet in the past and she picks up on this. By the end of the grooming session I was able to brush all round her feet without any bother at all but unfortunately I don't think I'm quite up to picking them up yet whilst my collarbone is healing so I'll keeping brushing until I am.

I also tied some thin strips of cut-up feed bag around her field so they flack around in the wind so she can get used to stuff like that.
 
Rosieshire said:
It's funny - I tried the glove on a stick method last night but she wasn't going to have a bit of it. I let her sniff it and thought I'd try touching her in the less sensitive areas first before trying her feet as she's been extremely shy about them since I've had her but she just did not like the glove being anywhere near her.

Instead I tried grooming her fairly roughly and working my way down the legs in the same manner as not to make a fuss and she was fine!! I can't help think that people have made too much fuss about picking up her (massive) feet in the past and she picks up on this. By the end of the grooming session I was able to brush all round her feet without any bother at all but unfortunately I don't think I'm quite up to picking them up yet whilst my collarbone is healing so I'll keeping brushing until I am.

I also tied some thin strips of cut-up feed bag around her field so they flack around in the wind so she can get used to stuff like that.
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I find this with our lot too, much harder to get them to accept some alien thing grooming them rather than you!

Ours are also not treated differently if they are jumpy, rugs are lobbed on horses near them, walked past at same speed, gates opened and shut with no response when they jump and chatted to like all the others. They are a lot calmer if you aren't panicking and making a deal out of it :)

Pan
 
Well wouldn't you know it, she let me wash her feet last night :)

When I got her, she was advertised as "is a bit funny having her feet picked up" but it didn't bother me. I knew she'd want her feet doing so waited to see how the farrier got on (as he'd most likely be used to awkward horses). When he looked the other day, he said it looked like she had a few mites which could be causing her some irritation and be contributing to the problem. The trouble was - how do I treat feet that I can't get at!!!! She was still a bit shy with them at first, especially with a sponge so all I did was start brushing her with a curry comb as I'd done the night before but this time used a bacterial shampoo, slowly working down the legs. Once her legs were fairly wet with the curry comb, I was able to work the shampoo in with a sponge & my hands.

Following on from what I & Pandora posted yesterday, I am convinced people have fart-arsed around with her feet before and given up which she has picked up on and taken advantage of. So although the mites may be there, they can be sorted and in treating them, I may actually get her to pick up her feet for me in a few days time when she realises it's no great drama and it's actually doing her some good :cool:
 
Well the mites could actually be a blessing in disguise because if she thinks I'm sorting it for her and making her feel better it can only increase the bond between us and make her trust me when we move on to other things. I'm not sure if horses think like that but I'd like to think so.
 
Well I tried long reigning her yesterday and it went really well. I'm not sure what I was expecting but lots of reading only seemed to make it sound really involved and that's not what I found at all. She tacked up really well, nice & calmly and stood absolutely still whilst I threaded through & connected up the reigns. A gentle flick of the reigns & "Walk on" and she went like a dream. I had her walking & trotting round the field, in figure of 8's and even over a couple of low jumps which makes me even more confident that the day she threw me off was just because she was still settling in & got spooked as opposed to being a problem horse that needs re-backing fully :)
 
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