breaking in tiny ponies - surely there must be a kinder way?

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newbie_nix

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I wonder if you can help me. I have just seen a video on a friend’s facebook page of a fully grown man breaking in what is either a young miniature horse or very tiny pony, I’m not entirely sure which but it really really tiny (the guy is holding his knees up high to stop his feet touching the ground) and I suspect it is pretty young as well. The guy breaking him in clearly isn't an expert because the video is entitled 'XXX (his name) trying to ride lol'

For the sake of argument I will call it a pony. They posted it because they thought it was funny. The link isn’t public so I can’t re-post it (and wouldn’t without permission anyway) but he is an average height and weight bloke on a tiny little animal. He isn’t fat but he isn’t exactly skinny either! We would say probably c 80 kg/12.5 stone ish at a guess.

The exercise seemed to involve the guy getting on in front of the woman who recorded it and some children (from the sound of it) and the pony running around the lawn and then across the drive looking distressed with everyone (including children) egging him on, laughing and telling him to go faster and canter! It was horrific to watch, the poor thing looked terrified and as well as the excessive weight, had its mouth yanked around (was bridled and the guy was bareback). Admittedly it was only for a few mins but even still, I felt sick watching it. They seemed to think it was hilarious entertainment.

A comment was made that the pony is too small. The excuse given was that they were breaking it in so the kids could ride and that not to worry he wouldn’t be riding it ‘normally’. I have heard people say this a few times i.e. that in order to break in a pony to be safe for kids you need to get an adult to ride it, but is it really necessary?

I am so worried about that poor pony’s back /sanity. In this case they don’t see it as cruel, its just training, but out of interest, what are the alternative methods? I am not an expert and have very little pony experience (I got horses later in life and don't have kids) so I just wanted to ask what you all think? Surely there has got to be a kinder way? Those with mini's /very tiny ponies, how do you break in yours?
 
Also to add, the guy 'riding' it isn't very balanced, nearly comes off a few times and uses the reins to stay on - poor little thing's head was being jerked all over the place. From the comments apparently there had been an earlier attempt where the pony wrapped him around a tree. Again they found this hilarious :mad:
 
Doesn't surprise me sadly. The amount of people who ask me to back their small ponies (I'm 5ft and petite) because if I couldn't they'd do it themselves probably around 10st plus and didn't see a huge problem with this and this is ponies anywhere between 10hh and 14hh.
 
Thanks Oldnag. Re reporting it, unfortunately it appears the authorities over here (in am in NZ) turn a blind eye to such 'old school' methods.

I say this because there was an incident a few months ago (which some of you will remember, it was mentioned on here) where a well known trainer had a fully grown woman sitting on a foal in the name of 'training'. I was one of the many that reported it and the authorities did nothing, as in their eyes, no actual laws had been broken. I am also not sure who the pony/mini belongs to and as it is a private video embedded in a facebook page I am not sure how I would even present the 'evidence'.

In this case it appears to be ignorance so I thought rather than go in all guns blazing (and probably not get anywhere for the reasons mentioned above) I would mention a better way of doing it to them?

The good news is that since I first posted this, some of her friends have spoken up and said its cruel so hopefully they will get the message. Shame for the poor little animal though - damage has probably already been done
 
Kokopelli said:
Doesn't surprise me sadly. The amount of people who ask me to back their small ponies (I'm 5ft and petite) because if I couldn't they'd do it themselves probably around 10st plus and didn't see a huge problem with this and this is ponies anywhere between 10hh and 14hh.
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Thanks kokopelli, sadly it doesn't surprise me either this is not the first time I have heard people talk about doing this but it is the first time I have seen it being done and I am shocked. The response (when its been mentioned previously) is usually 'so how would you do it?' to which I have no answer other than 'not like that' but I would love some advice from people who break in the little ones - how do you do it without overloading them and stressing them out? Do you have experienced children do it?
 
I suppose there are many people like me around who are small and help back the little guys. I personally would be weary of putting a child on first time as not many have independent hand and seat.

I've always been extre careful when backing small ponies because I know in the back of my mind they have to be suitable for a child. Any naughty behaviour is dealt with immediately and all ponies are despooked so as bombproof as they come. Eventually I like to make sure the ponies are good with 'bad' riding so will drop the reins and they can't take advantage of this, kids can flap around and they shouldn't spook and they should be able to tak off/ put coats on etc whilst sat on ponies back.

It's people like the guy from your video that create these dangerous unrideable ponies, also another area I'm used for.
 
Kokopelli said:
I suppose there are many people like me around who are small and help back the little guys. I personally would be weary of putting a child on first time as not many have independent hand and seat.

I've always been extre careful when backing small ponies because I know in the back of my mind they have to be suitable for a child. Any naughty behaviour is dealt with immediately and all ponies are despooked so as bombproof as they come. Eventually I like to make sure the ponies are good with 'bad' riding so will drop the reins and they can't take advantage of this, kids can flap around and they shouldn't spook and they should be able to tak off/ put coats on etc whilst sat on ponies back.

It's people like the guy from your video that create these dangerous unrideable ponies, also another area I'm used for.
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Thats what I thought as well - surely this is just creating problems further down the line. If I were that pony, after that ordeal, no way would I be happy about being ridden in future. It is hard to judge the size of the poor little thing but it looks tiny - 1st pony type size :(
 
It sounds like they are just ignorant really.

I have a sec A for my daughter. When it comes to backing her I will have bombproof ground work on long reins (straight and on a circle) and I am already bending over her (note bending not leaning) then I will use something weighted on her back. Then I will put my daughter on when I am sure she is ready. I think my pony will be far more suited to a children's pony than the one you describe!
 
I know of at least one trainer who's kids are very good riders and help her with backing and starting ponies, definately the best way to go.
 
FfionWinnie said:
It sounds like they are just ignorant really.

I have a sec A for my daughter. When it comes to backing her I will have bombproof ground work on long reins (straight and on a circle) and I am already bending over her (note bending not leaning) then I will use something weighted on her back. Then I will put my daughter on when I am sure she is ready. I think my pony will be far more suited to a children's pony than the one you describe!
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Yep, I know the person who took the vid and she is really nice, I don't think they set out to be cruel. Just thoughtless and misguided in this instance methinks. Sadly doesn't make any difference to the pony though. I was so disappointed to see the vid especially since all they seemed to care about was the entertainment factor. Some people seem to treat horses and ponies as toys and forget they are sentient beings with physical and emotional limits.

We all make mistakes, and I know they have to be broken in somehow. It must be hard with the really tiny ones as I would imagine much all adults will be too heavy but IMO the pony's welfare HAS to come first.

Sounds like, in contrast, your approach is very sensible Ffionwinnie, I'm sure yours will make a great child's pony :)
 
newbie_nix said:
Yep, I know the person who took the vid and she is really nice, I don't think they set out to be cruel. Just thoughtless and misguided in this instance methinks. Sadly doesn't make any difference to the pony though. I was so disappointed to see the vid especially since all they seemed to care about was the entertainment factor. Some people seem to treat horses and ponies as toys and forget they are sentient beings with physical and emotional limits.

We all make mistakes, and I know they have to be broken in somehow. It must be hard with the really tiny ones as I would imagine much all adults will be too heavy but IMO the pony's welfare HAS to come first.

Sounds like, in contrast, your approach is very sensible Ffionwinnie, I'm sure yours will make a great child's pony :)
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I totally agree with you. It's like folk who laugh at dogs chasing their tails etc, er hello it's a stereotypical behaviour nothing funny about it! I don't get folk who find things like that funny :confused:

And thanks. Hope she will, I've told her I'll put her in a tin of pedigree chum if she doesn't behave :D;)
 
This is the 'Traditional' method of breaking in , it makes the horse scared , and makes them work out of fear , not willingness.
Have you heard of Monty Roberts? , if not you should check him out! (kind horsemanship methods!)
 
ARoseforChance said:
This is the 'Traditional' method of breaking in , it makes the horse scared , and makes them work out of fear , not willingness.
Have you heard of Monty Roberts? , if not you should check him out! (kind horsemanship methods!)
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I disagree that the method described is traditional-I use traditional methods whereby ponies/horses have proper groundwork before backing.

the method described isn't a traditional method, just a cruel and ignorant one and it won't result in a good kids pony. I hate it when ponies aren't afforded the same considerations in training as horses.
 
ARoseforChance said:
This is the 'Traditional' method of breaking in , it makes the horse scared , and makes them work out of fear , not willingness.
Have you heard of Monty Roberts? , if not you should check him out! (kind horsemanship methods!)
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Thanks ARoseforchance, yip very aware of him :) I am a member of his online university. I don't follow just one way and I am not an expert but I try my best and use a combo of his sort of methods and clicker training with my horses. I also like the work of Richard Maxwell and Kelly Marks.

Agree, that whilst its important to be strict, the natural horsemanship approach seems much more logical to me than the 'old school' bully them into submission way. But then I haven't ever worked with tiny ponies before so its been very useful hearing a few more specifics about how other people, who do work with small ponies a lot, would go about it :)
 
peteralfred said:
I disagree that the method described is traditional-I use traditional methods whereby ponies/horses have proper groundwork before backing.

the method described isn't a traditional method, just a cruel and ignorant one and it won't result in a good kids pony. I hate it when ponies aren't afforded the same considerations in training as horses.
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Agreed. The traditional methods from "the old days" would be accompanied by a vast choice of child riders who were competent to ride such a pony as well.
 
peteralfred said:
I disagree that the method described is traditional-I use traditional methods whereby ponies/horses have proper groundwork before backing.

the method described isn't a traditional method, just a cruel and ignorant one and it won't result in a good kids pony. I hate it when ponies aren't afforded the same considerations in training as horses.
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You are quite right of course. I am guilty of calling it 'old school' as well. All I meant by that was often when the subject has come up, I have been told this is how it was always done 'back in the day'.

I completely agree about ponies getting an even rougher deal than horses a lot of the time. I think of all the weight discussions that take place here (lets not go there lol) and I was trying to figure out how much the pony in question weighed. The guy had to be at least 50% of its weight :( Actually if it was only a mini could have been more like 70%. Sickening.
 
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I this day and age I find it abhorrent that people such as the man described would do such a thing and this thread is actually relevant to me at the moment. I have a 14hh New forest x cob pony - she is 3 and a half. She has been led out, long-reined, lunged, tack on etc etc - free lunged over a few low poles for variety but was getting bored - she is a "busy" pony - always wanting to do something and a complete gem.

So I decided to start breaking her in earlier than I had originally planned - I had planned on May next year when she turned 4. I am 10 stone 4lbs - in my eyes too heavy for a three and a half year old, however sturdy she may be. We have a young girl on the yard who is a nice rider - weighs about 6 stone wet through (you know the type - the stunning bean-pole girls who look good on any horse!) and a couple of my friends are light - one is about 8 and a half stone, the other about 9 stone.

Last week I asked the young girl if she would mind sitting on Kenzi on the lunge and she was happy to. Because of all the groundwork I had done with her she didn't bat an eyelid whilst rider mounted from the ground and walked and trotted happily round on the lunge - not a buck, bronc or bolt offered. Yesterday another friend rode her - again pony happy as larry and today the heaviest one (about nine stone) rode her on the lunge and then off the lunge in walk and trot - this is only the third day that the pony has ever been sat on. If I can get my OH to get a video later this week I will try and post it - there is absolutely NO need for any pony to have a heavy rider on or to be frightened by any adult rider.

Anyway, I'm off the the gym soon - I now have an incentive to get down to 9 stone so that I can ride her myself.
 
in my spare time I am an equine body worker-even those ponies only ridden by kids, particularly those who are jumped/worked fast are generally alot more affected by it than they like to let on (ponies are very stoic). Even a good kid rider who is lightweight enough and quiet will have an effect on the pony (especially as saddle fit is generally not taken to be very important in ponies due the the riders only being tiny-IME). That's not to say I don't think they shouldn't be ridden but that ponies deserve the same consideration in schooling, tack fit and bodywork as the parents' horses generally get :)

obviously an adult should never be riding a mini-kids shouldn't be riding minis. And there's no need for a larger adult to be backing a pony. But some ponies can take some weight and some ponies are far more suited to smaller adults than kids-I know Highlands, Exmoors and Haffies that fit that category and alot of fun can be had with them.
 
The guy is clearly just a moron, & shouldn't be allowed animals.
I've backed quite a few ponies. I'm 5'10 but used to be 8stone in full riding kit, so chunky 12hh & upwards although too tall, I did end up backing a few by default as the lightest rider to hand. However by chunky I mean full up exmoors, not stocky sec a's. And as my height is mainly leg that can be hitched up in stirrups I wasn't awful height wise. However I'm now 8'11 minus hat & tack, so I have higher limits on what I'll ride. I did get asked to back a very fine sec b recently, which I turned down as I felt I was too heavy, although in fairness to the owners I look lighter than I am, they agreed it would be best to wait till pony is 4 next spring if they can't find someone smaller. And too big imo given its temperament to use my daughter.
My daughter backed her first mini age 5. Pony was very well prepared, & while daughter young she has an independent seat & hands. She wasn't up to bringing it on to do lateral work obviously, but more than up to riding 3 forward paces with her seat & legs, which as it was destined to be a lr pony was sufficient. Since then she's been used to back a few tinies. Her own pony is an 11.1 mini x, very fine & to back I wouldn't have wanted more than 5 stone & a ponypad on. So my then 6yr old daughter did it, plus the schooling for the 18mnths since then. And pony has come on very well even if I do say so myself. She did require more skill as she's naturally very forwards & lively, not one I'd be happy to have used a just off lr kid on under supervision, as you can get away with for initial backing with a quiet type. Over the last 2yrs I've discovered tiny competent kids are always in demand for backing tinies, she gets regular offers. However if its a lively type I'm very particular its had a lot of groundwork first. I think really if people want to take advantage of how cheap unbroken tiny ponies are, they should put some thought into how they'll break it.
 
peteralfred said:
I disagree that the method described is traditional-I use traditional methods whereby ponies/horses have proper groundwork before backing.

the method described isn't a traditional method, just a cruel and ignorant one and it won't result in a good kids pony. I hate it when ponies aren't afforded the same considerations in training as horses.
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All I mean is that in Monty Roberts book , this was described as he traditional method sooo....... I know there are some nice traditional methods , but this is NOT one of them
 
It's nothing to do with traditional methods whatsoever. There's plenty of idiots who practice the monty Roberts methods, that doesn't make them representative of natural horsemanship. Just like a fully grown man on a mini isn't representative of traditional methods either.
 
littlelegs said:
It's nothing to do with traditional methods whatsoever. There's plenty of idiots who practice the monty Roberts methods, that doesn't make them representative of natural horsemanship. Just like a fully grown man on a mini isn't representative of traditional methods either.
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Okay , but I think I've given some good advice being a ten year old!
 
Fair enough if you're only young. But as a word of advice, in every area of the horse world, there are people doing things badly, but you can't judge the method because of some people doing it wrong.
 
I agree with mynutmeg we used to be put on when breaking in ponies and were suitable riders to do this when my dad got in new ponies.
Mind you there is loads of us so maybe did't matter so much if they broke one of us.:eek:
 
Thanks all! Just woke up down here :) Great advice and thanks for your support. The vid has since been removed - I think she got a fair amount of flak from certain quarters. But sadly some support as well as at least 1 person 'liked' the original vid....sigh.....

Re size, I know some ponies can handle weight really well but it was honestly really tiny - I managed to save a still pic from the vid but don't want to get into trouble by sharing something that isn't mine. I am pretty sure you would all be horrified to see how massive this guy is compared to the pony. Pooor little thing :( I wish more people would educate themselves on the needs of small ponies and the best way to handle them before buying them. Somen people seem to just treat as yet another toy for their kids.

I doubt we will ever have small ponies ourselves but I know of another family who recently got a young mini for their kids. They won't be breaking it in or a long time but they have no equine experience at all so, whilst we dont want to interfere, I want to try and diplomatically make sure history isn't repeated....
 
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