Breaking youngster-pain?

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Speedyfluff

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I've just started breaking in my youngster. He's just turned four and is completely sound in that there is no visible lameness on any surface. I have done lots of ground work and found him opinionated (will rear if pressured) and have just started teaching him to lunge with very short sessions (no more than 3 circuits each way). He picked it up quickly and was just starting to lunge nicely without tack. Then a few days ago I noticed he was reluctant to go on the left rein. Yesterday he would reluctantly start off and then quickly turn in and rear at me if I tried to press him. When I did get him going again he grunted as he set off each time. So I finished by just asking for a half circle in walk and praised him for that. I think it is pain related as he's had a couple of really mad hoolies in the field. I plan to leave him for a week and then if no better get the vet. WWYD?
 
I think what I am asking is has anyone had a youngster that did this and it was behavioural? The reason I think it is pain is that he's happy to go on the right rein so is not objecting to the work itself, and also the grunt he makes when he sets off. But I'm worried in case I am letting him get away with it if it's behavioural. I'm thinking give him the week off any lunging but still do a couple of sessions with him that don't involve him exerting himself.
 
I would do exactly what you are proposing to do.

If you do not ask him to work, you are not 'letting him get away with it', you are giving him a holiday, or asking him to do something different. He might be a clever horse but I doubt very much that he is clever enough to work out that expressing his discomfort in a lunging session leads to being asked to e.g. long-rein a few days later. If he was trying it on, which I very much doubt, you carried on with your session until you were ready to stop.

I am all for listening to the horse.

I have a 4 yr old unbacked cob, late last year she was apparently struggling to lift one back leg high enough for the farrier. I considered asking the vet to have a look but instead left her for a while to see what happened. She grew some more and is now quite happy to lift all her legs.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I would do exactly what you are proposing to do.

If you do not ask him to work, you are not 'letting him get away with it', you are giving him a holiday, or asking him to do something different. He might be a clever horse but I doubt very much that he is clever enough to work out that expressing his discomfort in a lunging session leads to being asked to e.g. long-rein a few days later. If he was trying it on, which I very much doubt, you carried on with your session until you were ready to stop.

I am all for listening to the horse.

I have a 4 yr old unbacked cob, late last year she was apparently struggling to lift one back leg high enough for the farrier. I considered asking the vet to have a look but instead left her for a while to see what happened. She grew some more and is now quite happy to lift all her legs.
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Thank you. That's very interesting as my boy is often reluctant to lift his left fore. It takes me ages to get it off the ground and then he will sometimes try to snatch it. Yesterday he was especially bad so I wonder if he has a stiffness problem in his shoulder as this would probably be worse when the sore shoulder is on the inside. It worries me a little because my other two horses are retired. One through age, the other due to kissing spines, and I seem to be surrounded by friends having major problems with their horses right now. My boy with the kissing spines also didn't like having his front feet picked up. So I'm just panicking a bit about my youngster now :( Must try to relax about it.
 
I think what you are doing for this situation now sounds sensible. In order to get an indication of wether something is behavioral or fitness related, I would try a variation of the exercise and see if it makes a difference. Eg my horse will resist an inside bend at the c end, but is fine at a. Clearly behavioral. Similarly she will often try to stop at the gate when lunging. The day she had an abcess I could tell something was wrong because she was stopping at other places too. It's not an absolute rule, but IME behavioural issues will start in a particular situation/ location whereas pain issues will not follow the same pattern.
 
gnubee said:
I think what you are doing for this situation now sounds sensible. In order to get an indication of wether something is behavioral or fitness related, I would try a variation of the exercise and see if it makes a difference. Eg my horse will resist an inside bend at the c end, but is fine at a. Clearly behavioral. Similarly she will often try to stop at the gate when lunging. The day she had an abcess I could tell something was wrong because she was stopping at other places too. It's not an absolute rule, but IME behavioural issues will start in a particular situation/ location whereas pain issues will not follow the same pattern.
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Thanks. That is a good pointer. He stopped at various places, though most often near the gate. I might try taking him to the other end next time I try and see what happens. I'm fairly sure it's pain related and he's telling me in the only way he can. Hopefully just stiffness from too much "expression" in the field.
 
Gloi said:
How many horses have you broken in previously? Did you have any problems with those?
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I broke my mare in (now retired and 23). And four others whilst working as a groom. But I'm not a professional. I had slight problems with two of them after an uneventful backing, but we got through it fine. It was during their initial schooling when they went through a bucking phase. But that was many years ago now.
 
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Update: He's had over a week off now and so I thought I'd try him again today. He was in a really fresh mood. However this time he tried it on on the right rein. Turned in and reared when pressed. I made him continue and he had a couple more episodes but then settled nicely. Then he was really bad again on the left rein. However, I now think it is attitude as he tried it on the left rein too, so we had a real battle with repeated rearing but eventually got some nice circles on the left rein too. He moves beautifully on both reins once he decides he will cooperate. I think he is just a horse with a lot of spirit and intelligence. We finished off with some in hand work and he was his best ever. I think I'm going to have to just crack on. I have trotted him up on concrete and soft going and he is supple and sound. Plan is to give him very short lunge sessions and ensure that they are started and ended on my terms broken up with in hand work, training to stand at the mounting block etc. I'm not going to start with tack (although he has worn it) until we get the obedience on the lunge.
 
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We have also got this problem with a 5 year old we broke last year and we have still been unsuccessful at it, his mother is brilliant at lungeing but he just refuses on the right. Because he is so hyper we have now had to start lungeing him on the left for five minutes then making him work on his right when schooling! We have also had trainers out but he is just far too stubborn.
 
Sadiiee98 said:
We have also got this problem with a 5 year old we broke last year and we have still been unsuccessful at it, his mother is brilliant at lungeing but he just refuses on the right. Because he is so hyper we have now had to start lungeing him on the left for five minutes then making him work on his right when schooling! We have also had trainers out but he is just far too stubborn.
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I am pleased to hear that he still schools on the left. I think I'm going to take my boy back to basics. I'm going to teach him to move his shoulder out when I point the lunge whip. Just start in hand and close and take it really slowly.
 
I don't lunge youngsters for this reason as they are growing they are neither physically balanced nor skelataly balanced, if they are growing they may find one rein more difficult than the other. Also may be testing your boundaries.
 
fornema said:
I don't lunge youngsters for this reason as they are growing they are neither physically balanced nor skelataly balanced, if they are growing they may find one rein more difficult than the other. Also may be testing your boundaries.
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I don't want to lunge very much. Just two or three circles each way so that he learns the voice commands from a distance. I'll be moving onto long reining as soon as he is obedient enough to the voice commands. I think he is quite a dominant horse (tries to be top of the herd and continuously tests his boundaries with other horses) so I think you are right there. He's not going to be straight forward like my old mare was.
 
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