Breed ID?

Karran

Karran

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So, we gained a friend on Wednesday - normal story, previous owners didn't realise how much exercise was involved and had allowed her to rule the roost.
Previous owners met Mum (BC) and saw a picture of Dad, but I'm not convinced she is pure BC. Some people have suggested part kelpie? Any ideas?

69547143_10162363848380051_3472839692880183296_o.jpg
69696602_10162363849690051_8526325271647748096_n.jpg I adore the ears!!!
69215103_10162363848200051_5111829934934851584_o.jpg
 
She's lovely and those ears are fabulous! She could be a working collie even with those ears though. The Kelpies I've met in Oz are usually quite small almost dainty dogs compared to the sheepdogs I was used to from Ireland. so my vote would still be collie from a working line rather then border collie based on her size versus the spaniel.
 
It doesn't bother me what she is, but I need to register her for flyball as "something" so not sure whether to put her down as a Xbreed or collie - My captain is keen on putting her down as kelpie as we dont have one of those and we struggle for enough mixed breeds when it comes to multibreed comps!
She's going to be a bit of a project. She's had a few accidents in the house - hoping its just until she gets into a routine, so we've taken to crating overnight.
She took a while to be in the same room as me, but now I can do anything with her and Mrs Spaniel is very tolerant of her - she hasn't yet learnt to play with dogs so that works well for us, as she's happy in her company but also happy playing with toys on her own.
Its going to take a bit of work before I'd feel happy with her muzzle off in public, as she's very fear reactive around people but i've been introducing her to different people every day and having short sessions of calm, sensible interactions and this morning we let a total stranger (to her) stroke her head without lunging or growling so the potential is there, but a hell of a lot of work before I'd feel confident in letting her take part in flyball/agility training however she's only 8 months old so i'm in no rush and in the meantime we're learning our basic obedience. Very pleased with our progress so far.
 
I don't think that she's enough of a mixer to get away with anything else other then collie for flyball to be honest......isn't the point of the mixer classes to give the non collies a chance?or is it a numbers issue and ye just need more options overall?
How common are kelpies is the uk?
 
It's just a numbers issue to give us more options ;) we have lots of collies and spaniels and only three or four other breeds. I have no idea about kelpies apart from what I've spent this morning googling! :)
 
We have a working collie pup here that has massive ears, some of them do.
This is not the pup but a working bred collie with fairly big ears, they are bigger in reality than they look in this photo (excuse his lipstick!)
20190827_125232.jpg
 
She's fabulous!
I agree, bar the ears she doesn't look particularly Kelpieish, and Kelpies don't always have massive ears anyway.
 
CorvusCorax said:
She looks like a lot of working sheepdogs I'd see around here.

If she's only 8 months, you've only had her a week and you're not in a hurry, I wouldn't push her into accepting strokes on heads from strangers just yet, I'm sure she'll settle soon.
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Perhaps I'm not explaining myself very well. I don't tend to on here! I've taken her to meet people, who run dog groups of their own, and who I trust not to throw themselves on her. They've settled down near her and waited for her to approach them and then if she's been comfortable reached out to stroke her, while I've been monitoring the situation. If she's not happy with the situation then she is just left to sniff, try to rub her muzzle off and be a dog while we chat or walk together etc and then we try again later in that session.
She has improved already from lashing out at anyone walking past to sitting and mooching around happily, soft eyes, waggy tail etc, using this format so I'm happy to keep on going and slowly, slowly increase it all with her.
She's had 8 months or so of being able to throw her weight around and for want of a better term act like she's the alpha dog. I can't leave her to get her feet under the table here and have an even harder job than I'm having already to convince her that A) people are not scary and B) that growling gets you, your own way. She's muzzled at all times outside and I'm careful not to put her into something that is too much for her too soon.
She is simply desperate for people to tell her its ok and the world is not a scary place. She's already quite attached to me and looking to me for reassurance so I'm not going to do anything to jeopardise that or risk anyone but the sooner she can relax out of the house, the happier she will be so my job is to introduce her to a select people and experiences to start building that confidence.
Hopefully that makes more sense?
 
I don’t quite understand, if she was allowed to rule the roost why is she scared of people now ? Biting at 8 months would worry me ......I think she is likely to be a kelpie/collie, esp the first photo, the coat in 5hr second says maybe all collie ?
 
Looks like a collie, or at most a collie crossed with a Welsh Sheepdog (aka another collie). Please don't stick down a random breed for the sake of making up the numbers - it's neither accurate nor fair.
 
She's never been socialised with anyone outside the house, in fact i'm not entirely sure she was ever walked. They had no dog experience at all and didn't know how to handle her as a real puppy. So she completely bossed it about in there, resource guarding, and doing what she wanted. She learnt that if she gave a good growl/snap, people backed down from her. Now she's being made to act like a civilised member of society, shes completely out of her comfort zone and she's worrying about the situation she's now found herself in and how the rules have changed for her inside and outside the house.
Again I'm probably explaining this really badly!

I dont want to put her down as something she's not, which is why I asked here if anyone had more of an idea as I don't tend to see many collies let alone working ones in London and also there seems to be so much variety in the breed anyway when I meet them at flyball/agility, which all seem to be along the show lines anyway. I was hoping more knowledgeable people would help! She's caused a bit of debate, with some people convinced she is, some people convinced she's not and some people thinking she's something completely different!
 
On the K.C Activity register just put her down as working sheepdog and FDU (further details unknown) this will allow you to do fly ball, obedience, rally, agility, heel work to music etc. In fact any KC activity except breed showing.
There are a lot of WSD that look like yours in all dog sports. Hope you have lots of fun
 
In haste, 'alpha' dogs do not behave this way, they are calm and confident and don't feel the need to loudly make scary things go away, or lash out because they are scared, or demand people stay away from their stuff. A dog at the top of the pile doesn't give a toot about being touched or people walking past.

I'm posting this again because I think it's a fab article.
Sounds like you are making progress though :)

https://www.agilitynet.co.uk/training/bordercollie_suekitchen_leewindeatt.html
 
CorvusCorax said:
In haste, 'alpha' dogs do not behave this way, they are calm and confident and don't feel the need to loudly make scary things go away, or lash out because they are scared, or demand people stay away from their stuff. A dog at the top of the pile doesn't give a toot about being touched or people walking past.

I'm posting this again because I think it's a fab article.
Sounds like you are making progress though :)

https://www.agilitynet.co.uk/training/bordercollie_suekitchen_leewindeatt.html
Click to expand...

CC, I have that article saved. Have read it lots of times since we got Bo to try and understand his behaviour a bit.
 
How broad is she across the head? We have a quarter kelpie and the main difference to our collies is the head, its sort of more square. She's registered as a working sheepdog cos if a collie x kelpie isn't a sheepdog that could work I don't know what is and she's too pretty to call her a crossbreed. I'd post a pic if I could work out how
 
CorvusCorax said:
In haste, 'alpha' dogs do not behave this way, they are calm and confident and don't feel the need to loudly make scary things go away, or lash out because they are scared, or demand people stay away from their stuff. A dog at the top of the pile doesn't give a toot about being touched or people walking past.

I'm posting this again because I think it's a fab article.
Sounds like you are making progress though :)

https://www.agilitynet.co.uk/training/bordercollie_suekitchen_leewindeatt.html
Click to expand...
One of the working collies here is the most self assured being I have even had the pleasure to meet, he eats slowly- no need to rush as no-one will take his food, he cuddles (full on cuddles) everyone- no fear, if a bitch is in season she is his-no one challenges that, he is 12 years old and even out working with unknown dogs no-one challenges him for anything, he rules the roost without throwing his weight round. I am sure he is a large part of why we have no issues with any of the dogs.
He is a true 'alpha' dog and a delight to be around.
If this bitch has never.been put and about OP her aggression will be fear based no alpha and to be honest if a dog growls at.me I listen it's foolish not too.
 
twiggy2 said:
One of the working collies here is the most self assured being I have even had the pleasure to meet, he eats slowly- no need to rush as no-one will take his food, he cuddles (full on cuddles) everyone- no fear, if a bitch is in season she is his-no one challenges that, he is 12 years old and even out working with unknown dogs no-one challenges him for anything, he rules the roost without throwing his weight round. I am sure he is a large part of why we have no issues with any of the dogs.
He is a true 'alpha' dog and a delight to be around.
If this bitch has never.been put and about OP her aggression will be fear based no alpha and to be honest if a dog growls at.me I listen it's foolish not too.
Click to expand...

Bo is full of love at home, will often curl up on my lap of evening. He really is too big to be a lap dog. 🤣 He is very reactive on the lead though, and will give a warning growl, and then snap if people don’t back off. He is pretty indifferent when we are off road and he’s off lead to both people and dogs.

et2J3iU.jpg
 
bonny said:
I don’t quite understand, if she was allowed to rule the roost why is she scared of people now ? Biting at 8 months would worry me ......I think she is likely to be a kelpie/collie, esp the first photo, the coat in 5hr second says maybe all collie?

Lack of confidence. Not an alpha dog & needs a confident, consistent leader. Needs boundaries, routine and positive training methods.
Click to expand...
 
She looks like a working bred border collie or “working sheepdog” as the KC seem to like them being called. I remember being astonished at the amount of “working sheepdogs” doing agility at Crufts, when did they get time off the farm for training? 🤪. Until I realised it was just the KCs way of saying it’s not a Kennel Club registered border collie 😂
 
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