Breeders left with growing puppies during lockdown

Parrotperson said:
our vets are still doing vaccinations on 3 days a week. one in one out policy. surely its a welfare issue if cannot be done.
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Are you in the uk?

If the RCVS find out about that those vets are likely to get quite badly reprimanded. Their rules have been pretty clearly stated.
Its a lockdown. Puppies should not be out and about walking in areas where they could pick up parvo in a lockdown to be exposed in the first place. Traveling to the vets for a vaccine is both unnecessary travel and a non essential journey at this point in time. It places humans in a situation of being out and about potentially spreading the disease when they could be kept at home.
Its not a welfare issue because Parvo distemper etc is quite easy to avoid....if you just take care to stop your puppy catching it in the one hour they are allowed out of the house in a lockdown. Carry them instead of walking them where they can be picking up things that could carry the virus or lepto, dont let them interact with strangers pets. Treat them the same as you are ment to before the vaccine course is completed. It's that simple.
Is it a corporate run vets or a private practice out of curiosity?
That's screams making money over taking the health of their staff and clients as a priority :( We are only in level 3 lockdown here. We don't have one in one out at all anymore-thats a lot of human contact and wasted ppe if you are treating this seriously. Its strictly drop off only with as little human direct contact as possible. Phone consult.
Come level 4 its very strictly emergency only.

I don't even think they allowed an exemption for the Parvo prone areas last I checked. Stunts like that are why in some regions all the small animal vets that were not emergency or farm animal were ordered to close doors as a non essential service. Human health trumps animal in a crisis. Someone wanting to walk their puppy sooner does not justify placing others in danger of catching a virus that might kill them.
 
It is somewhat surprising that the movement of puppies is banned yet on this H & H Forum there are multiple horse owners changing livery yards with gay abandon. What is the difference? What is the difference between a deliver driver (breeder) leaving a puppy in a cage by someone's front door, if the deal has been agreed prior to Coronavirus, than all the couriers bringing everything that people have bought on the internet? Would common sense distancing mesures not be prefereble to puppies being left too long in a situation that is not ideal. 10 x 10 week old Irish Wolfhound puppies would be a bit tricky to manage! Is the non movement of puppies 'advice' or 'regulation'?
 
From the Kennel Club advice page "Where keeping puppies longer than originally planned is becoming a significant welfare concern, then it is possible that this will be deemed a reasonable excuse to leave your house, with regard to the Covid-19 regulations."

Their page is a bit vague in places I think they do not want to say something specific either way and then be held to account for it
 
A neighbour has a litter of large breed puppies heading for 2 weeks old. In the last 24 hours I have seen three strange cars come a visiting, presumably to come puppy shopping. They stated on facebook last week they were on self isolation to allow safe viewing.

This is a family normal rules and regulations do not apply to anyway.
 
Isn't viewing at 2 weeks way to early regardless of anything else? Puppy collections at 8 weeks I know are allowed under animal welfare concerns but viewings are supposed to be done via videos and photos that is one thing the Kennel Club is quite clear about. Although you say that family do what they want anyway which means they'll never listen to reason
 
Puppy collections are not allowed. Licensed breeders operating as businesses (i.e the ones you wouldn't want to buy a puppy from) may be able to deliver puppies, according to the KC, but their guidance is written in such a wishy-washy fashion I think even they realise they are clutching at straws with that one!

The fallout has begun from the updated BVA/RCVS guidance and they are taking a hammering for it, many of the veterinary profession feel they have been thrown under the bus with a complete backtrack on the last three weeks of guidance which aimed to enforce social distancing. The burnt-out skeleton staff will now be expected to see a stream of routine appointments, in complete contravention of social distancing regs. Add in people thinking it's ok to drive for hours and mix households to collect a puppy... madness.
 
blackcob said:
Puppy collections are not allowed. Licensed breeders operating as businesses (i.e the ones you wouldn't want to buy a puppy from) may be able to deliver puppies, according to the KC, but their guidance is written in such a wishy-washy fashion I think even they realise they are clutching at straws with that one!

The fallout has begun from the updated BVA/RCVS guidance and they are taking a hammering for it, many of the veterinary profession feel they have been thrown under the bus with a complete backtrack on the last three weeks of guidance which aimed to enforce social distancing. The burnt-out skeleton staff will now be expected to see a stream of routine appointments, in complete contravention of social distancing regs. Add in people thinking it's ok to drive for hours and mix households to collect a puppy... madness.
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Why would you not want to buy a puppy from a licensed breeder ?
 
AdorableAlice said:
Why would you not want to buy a puppy from a licensed breeder ?
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Sorry, emphasis should have been on 'operating as a business' rather than licensed - there was further guidance in conjunction with Defra which used this phrasing, I'll see if I can find it again.

Edit: Here.
 
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blackcob said:
Sorry, emphasis should have been on 'operating as a business' rather than licensed - there was further guidance in conjunction with Defra which used this phrasing, I'll see if I can find it again.
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If you breed as a hobby and advertise puppies for sale with a high value your licensing authority will class you as breeding for business purposes. The HMRC guidance on the 2018 Act has no bearing on whether the breeder operates as a business or not.
 
'For those who are in the business of breeding, then it is allowed within the regulations to leave your house to travel for the purposes of work as long as you adhere to social distancing and hygiene requirements. '

Surely if people are doing it as a hobby they cannot them claim they are travelling for the purposes of work to deliver puppies?
 
rabatsa said:
A neighbour has a litter of large breed puppies heading for 2 weeks old. In the last 24 hours I have seen three strange cars come a visiting, presumably to come puppy shopping. They stated on facebook last week they were on self isolation to allow safe viewing.
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I'm baffled as to what viewers would be looking for in a 2 week old, way too early, surely? I first saw mine at 4 weeks and although very cute they all looked like little hairy potatoes, nothing to choose between them at that age.
 
blackcob said:
I'm baffled as to what viewers would be looking for in a 2 week old, way too early, surely? I first saw mine at 4 weeks and although very cute they all looked like little hairy potatoes, nothing to choose between them at that age.
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She's been dead for many years now, but I picked out my late Norwegian Buhund Humla when she was 1 week old. It took a bit of time to decide which one of the small, yellow, hairy potatoes I wanted, I held them up, tried to look at proportions, saw how they behaved when eating, and chose Humla. As I recall, she was the only one in the litter to earn a show champion prefix to put before her pedigree name.
 
ester said:
Surely if people are doing it as a hobby they cannot them claim they are travelling for the purposes of work to deliver puppies?
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It's okay, they can just claim this instead:

...other factors such as financial hardship, or mental health issues associated with keeping the puppies longer may also meet the legal threshold for leaving your home to transport the puppies.
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*eyeroll*

I'm not going to get into the bones of the licensing thing as I'm not a breeder, it was poorly worded of me and I remember the endless discussions when the regs first came out, it seemed like each local authority was interpreting the business test and 'out of scope' criteria as they felt like it. What I meant to convey was that it's likely to be the high volume, high profit breeders who will be leaping on both the KC's and BVA/RCVS updated guidance to make unneccesary journeys to ship out puppies and make non-urgent vet visits in contravention of everything we've been told in the last three weeks.
 
I love people who view puppies at 2 weeks old ? - they have absolutely no idea which puppy they have chosen, and I have known of unscrupulous breeders who have noticed that the chosen pup is a better show prospect and have told the purchasers that they picked a different one ?

I must clearly emphasise that said unscrupulous breeder IS NOT related to me in any way, knowing how people love to jump to conclusions on here!
 
FinnishLapphund said:
She's been dead for many years now, but I picked out my late Norwegian Buhund Humla when she was 1 week old. It took a bit of time to decide which one of the small, yellow, hairy potatoes I wanted, I held them up, tried to look at proportions, saw how they behaved when eating, and chose Humla. As I recall, she was the only one in the litter to earn a show champion prefix to put before her pedigree name.
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I am in awe of your hairy potato picking skills :D

I could hardly tell them apart at that age and was relying on the coloured collars! It was evident at 8 weeks that his brother would have been the better show dog but I wanted a dog primarily for agility so the gangly-legged, shorter-coated black potato came home with me. I may have cursed my decision at his first few shows, where the word 'rangy' was used a lot. :oops:
 
If you breed puppies and SELL them then your are breeding for business and the income from those puppies should be decalred on your tax return . Anyone who thinks that breeding pedigree dogs and selling them for hundreds of pounds is not a business (maybe not the only business or the main business but still a business) is sadly deluded.
Generally speaking, in the horse world the inland revenue allow you to sell one maybe two horses in a year before deciding that you are a dealer and in business for tax purposes. A litter of puppies is normally more than one or two.
 
blackcob said:
I am in awe of your hairy potato picking skills :D

I could hardly tell them apart at that age and was relying on the coloured collars! It was evident at 8 weeks that his brother would have been the better show dog but I wanted a dog primarily for agility so the gangly-legged, shorter-coated black potato came home with me. I may have cursed my decision at his first few shows, where the word 'rangy' was used a lot. :oops:
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You can pick the best in the litter at a few days old....then it all goes horribly wrong for a long time ?

It still makes me giggle that when my mum was breeding she would always want me to go over and pick out the best pup - I was very rarely wrong - god knows why as it was just instinct every time!

Give me more than one rescue dog to choose from and I’m finished ???
 
My trainer's selection process was extremely rigorous, between 4-6 weeks they chosen few would be taken for a ride in a car, put on a table, turned upside down/restrained, expected to chase and carry a bit of balled up tinfoil or a set of keys and be observed when they ate or drank.
We used to take the piss a bit, but he actually had a point about the water drinking ???
 
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