Breeders with puppies to sell - question

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well i have a girl staff and we bred her in around april time, before we had even thought about breeding her loads of people were saying ill have one!! and they were all good homes so we were ok with this! BUT when she had them, she had 5 boys! so that was it, everyone who wanted one didnt now! and one of them had the cheek of saying are you going to breed her again so i can get a bitch!!!!!!!
we sold the two brindle ones straight away, because our telewest man came to our house and just fell in love with them! they had kids and they were a lovely family so we said yes the other brindle one went to there friends another great family! it was very hard to find the two white ones a home because we live in anfield and we didnt want them going to a gang of scally lads who are going to hang round the parks fighting them and whatever! and plus they wouldnt pay £400 for a puppy as they are KC registered! we advertised them in the KC all cataloges and got offers but they just wanted bitches so they could breed them!!!!!! and me mum said even if i did have bitches i wouldnt sell them to people like that because she wanted them going to a good family home! we finally found a house for the littlest one (white), he went to my friend who i always talk to on the internet and am updated with him all the time and i do have to say he is one of the nicest puppies i have ever seen! hes absolutely gorgeous and i am made up he went to such a great home! then there was gizmo! who was ment to go to our next door neighbour but 'something happened' and she couldnt have him (she wanted a bitch and something else happened) and we were nearly keeping him because no one wanted him! last minute this family who live by barneys owner phoned up and came down they fell in love with him! they were getting a new dog because there dog they had died a few weeks before and he was going to be a suprise to there little boy who was devastated (cs) when he saw him he was over the moon!

we have been to the houses and visited the people and the puppies to see how they are getting on and they are going great! we couldnt of found better homes!
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the people always phone to tell us how they are doing and stuff! we kept one of the puppies and he is fine big healthy staffy who i love to bits!

i really do feel sorry for rescue dogs i cant watch adverts with them on and cats i just feel like crying! its not right the way people treat the animals! i feel for pitbulls aswell ( i dont like them that much though) but after seeing a sight with the way they are treated i was just so shocked! i cant even desribe the way they are its just unbelievable how people can do such things!

we are not going to breed her again because we just felt sorry for her when she was having them because they hurt her, like it hurts a women when they have a baby! and plus why breed her again.
 
I breed GSD's and the occasinal Whippet litter, my last one for a good 4 years ago but i am planning to mate my bitch in January so will let you know how they sell!! I dont normally have any problems selling my sheps but they are from excellent lines and healthy and hip scored which so many arnt these days sadly!
 
OBVIOUSLEY THERE ARE TWO MANY MONEY GRABBING BREEDERS OUT THERE AND MAYBE PEOPLE R STARTING TO GET THE MESSAGE TO STEAR CLEAR!!!
IT IS FAR TWO EASY TO BE PUMPING PUPPIES OUT LEFT RIGHT AND CENTER AND MAYBE THIS WILL MAKE THOSE OF U BREEDING TO THINK TWICE!!!
IT WOULD SERVE U RIGHT TO BE LEFT WITH A WHOLE LITTER OF PUPPIES THEN U WOULD KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE FOR THE RESCUE CENTER U HELP TO FILL WITH YOUR CANINE OFF SPRING!!!!
MY FRIEND CURRENLY HAS 24 DOGS IN HER RESCUE AND 21 OF THOSE R PEDIGREE, BROUGHT INTO THE VETS SHE WORKS TO BE P.T.S BECAUSE THEY R TO BIG, BOISTEROUS, OR CHEWING AND NIPPING THE KIDS, OR THE OWNERS HAVING A BABY!!! WHAT A LOAD OF RUBISHHHHHH!!!!
AND IT OBVIOUSLY BREEDERS LIKE U WHO R ADDING TO THE RESCUE POPULATION!!!
AT THE MOMENT MY FRIEND HAS 5 SHEPHERDS, 2 MALAMUTES, 3 LABRADORS, 2 STAFFIES, 1 WHIPPET, 1 BORDER TERRIER, 1 HUSKY, 2 ROTTIS E,T,C THE LIST GOES ON!!!it doesnt mean that if people pay good money for a dog it wont end up as a rescue COS IT DOES!!!!!
ALL OF THESE DOGS ARE UNDER 2 YEARS OF AGE!!!!
SHE SPENDS A LOT OF MONEY NEUTERING, VACCINATING AND CHIPPING THESE DOGS, B4 CARRYING OUT HOME CHECKS, AND HAVING HOMING AGREEMENTS SIGHNED TO MAKE SURE THE DOGS ARE RETURNED TO HER IF THE NEED ARISES!!! SOMEHOW I DONT THINK THE MAJORITY OF BREEDERS DO THIS!!! COS THERE NO PROFIT IN IT AFTER THE PUPPY STAGE HAS PASSED!!!!
SO FOR GODS SAKE STOP THE UNNESSESARY BREEDING AND MAKE MONEY ANOTHER WAY LIKE !!!WORKING!!!
I BET IF BREEDING WAS TAXABLE LIKE HARD GRAFT IS U WOULD THINK TWICE!!!!!!
 
Sorry if u took offence to the CAPS LOCK thing, but i wonder if this was the cause of the offence and not the fact that u r indeed a breeder yourself!!!
If what u said was correct i appologise for this.
 
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MY FRIEND CURRENLY HAS 24 DOGS IN HER RESCUE AND 21 OF THOSE R PEDIGREE, BROUGHT INTO THE VETS SHE WORKS TO BE P.T.S BECAUSE THEY R TO BIG, BOISTEROUS, OR CHEWING AND NIPPING THE KIDS, OR THE OWNERS HAVING A BABY!!! WHAT A LOAD OF RUBISHHHHHH!!!!
AND IT OBVIOUSLY BREEDERS LIKE U WHO R ADDING TO THE RESCUE POPULATION!!!

[/ QUOTE ]I have to disagree Mick... it's the poeple that are taking on dogs that they are not capable of a) training b) looking after c) are taking them for 'status' i.e ohhh I have a rottie/I have a BIG dog etc....

It's THOSE people that are filling up the rescue centres NOT the breeders... jeez most breeders aren't sending their dogs to rescue centres and I am confident in saying would hate to think of their dogs ending up somewhere like that!!

Responsible breeders ensure that their pups are going to a suitable/caring/loving home.. however they can't predict the future - however by putting a fee on a dog (albeit sometimes a small fortune) it discourages those people that want a dog on a whim....!!!

OK so there are SOME irresponsible breeders... however yet again they aren't breeding and sending their dogs directly to the rescue centre.... it's the OWNERS of the dogs that are at fault... and yes SOME people can't always cope with the dog when they get older/come into adolescence, it happens.... much better that the dog goes toa rescue/rehoming centre than be mistreated/misunderstood/neglected due to it's behaviour?!
 
Who is it BETTER FOR me who pays out over £400 per month to keep these rescues alive or the unlucky ones who slip through cos all the rescue centers are full!!!!!
I have a little more insight than the average dog owner as the the full extent of over breeding!!!!!
As a vet nurse i see dogs as young as 5 months awaiting the DEATH SENTENCE!!!! For being to boisterous, chewing, e,t,c.
I myself have 7 dogs one happens to be as stated on her pedigree a £1200 JAPANESE AKITA, brought to be P.T.S at only 11 months old, had a friend of mine not been at work that day she would be DEAD NOW!!!! These people bought this dog to breed from her and took her to be destroyed because they split up and could not take her to their parents house because she was no good with other dogs......
THIS IS EXTREME BUT NOT THE WORST I HAVE HEARD!!!!
There is people out there who breed for show purpose and try to vet homes and pay alot of money to medically determine that the dog is of good specimen to breed!!!! BUT THERE ARE ALOT MORE IDIOTS BREEDING FOR MONEY!!!!! and i think i have the right to say so, considering i re-home over 300 dogs per year , NEUTERING, VACCINATING AND CHIPPING THEM BEFORE VETTING HOMES AND HAVING CONTRACTS SIGNED TO STATE THE DOGS ARE TO BE RETURNED TO ME!!!! if the need arises. I can tell u not many breeders do this.
BREEDING NEEDS TO BE TAXED AND REGULATED, AND ONCE AGAIN THE PEOPLE ABOVE R EXPERIENCING WHAT THE RESCUE CENTERS AND MYSELF EXPERIENCE ALL YEAR ROUND.

Obviously every has there own opinion and EXPERIENCES.
Thanx for your reply its interesting to understand what other people see and understand on a subject i am VERY INVOLVED IN.
There should be regulations to state that if the purchaser can no longer keep the dog IT SHOULD BE RETURNED AND ACCEPTED BY THE BREEDER!!!!!
Some may already do this!!! BUT CLEARLY NOT ENOUGH.
 
Mick - if you read my responses... you'll see that I DO think that breeders should take a contract whereby if the puppy they sell is no longer wanted by their current home that they should be returned TO THE BREEDER... not moved on..

HOWEVER in SOME cases dogs are better off in rescues homes than current homes that don't want them/mistreat them/emotionally neglect them!!

Our Lurcher is from the RSPCA... many members of my family have rescue dogs - so please don't think your the ONLY one that has these dogs...

YES you see it everyday, YES you are extremely passionate about it, YES you have numerous rescue dogs... it's not ALWAYS possible to have a house full of dogs... sometimes it is to the detriment of other dogs to bring further animals into the home.

I commend you and your friend/friend(s) for rescueing so many dogs... but again it's your choice to do so so please don't make out it's a strain for you to pay the £400 a month to keep them.. you chose to save these dogs... again I think it's great that you have.

If I were in the situation where I saw these young animals being bought in to be PTS then I too would probably have hundreds of dogs... but please don't tarr EVERY breeder with the same brush.

A breeder IMO doesn't have the right to decide if you can breed from your puppy or not - this is something that needs to be discussed when purchasing the animal.

My Ridgeback came to me with no breeding endorsements on him, however some of the other pups had endorsements due to lack of ridge etc... so it would be to the detriment of the breed to breed from ridgeless stock...

Our Lurcher came from the RSPCA... he is entire!! - Why do they not neuter? - surely ANY dog that goes into these rescue centres could be neutered before re-homing... yes I know it costs... but again IMO that should be part of the contract - a rescue dogs comes neutered and vaccinated.

You stating that pups should come vaccinated and chipped from breeders IMO is ridiculous, only the other day you were commenting on why people pay so much for pedigree dogs etc... this wil only bump the price up more surely?!
 
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You can disagree very easily YOU DONT SEE HALTHY DOGS DESTROYED on a daily basis..... OR have over 24 RESCUE DOGS IN YOUR HOME......

[/ QUOTE ]No your right I don't see the dogs destroyed - that doesn't mean I don't sympathise and think it is tradegic!
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No I don't have 24 rescue dogs in my home... which to me is too many, but well done for rescueing them, I don't know how they are kept at your home... but imagine it must be pretty crowded!! However from what you say they are better off with you than PTS!!
 
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There should be regulations to state that if the purchaser can no longer keep the dog IT SHOULD BE RETURNED AND ACCEPTED BY THE BREEDER!!!!!
Some may already do this!!! BUT CLEARLY NOT ENOUGH.

[/ QUOTE ] I do think that is a very valid suggestion, although how enforceable it would be I don't know. I do know that the breeder who bred our pup DOES take her dogs back for rehoming as she had a 5 yo dog there one day who needed rehoming after a marital breakup.
 
You mistook what i said i did not say that breeders should CHIP N NEUTER, this would be impossible unless they where willing to hang on to them until old enough to neuter !! THERE WOULD BE NO PROFIT IN A SELLING ON A 6 MONTH OLD NEUTERED DOG!!!! and thats is why most people do it... FOR PROFIT.
I do think it is discusting that the RSPCA let u take a entire dog from a so called rescue!!! the whole point is to not breed from a dog that was its self in a rescue situation or on death row. But then again the RSPCA are mostly useless anyway i know that through my job.
Granted not all people can do what i do or see what i see, but hopefully a little education could reduce this appauling rescue/cruelty status we are facing today.

LIKE I SAID EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO AN OPINION

As to the comment of 24 being to many !!! I totally agree but until the people who can make a difference that is the AMATEUR/MONEY GRABBING/WORK SHY and PLAIN STUPID dog breeders stop what they r doing no doubt the 24 will keep on rising xxxxx

There is a few sensible dog breeders out there but like i say NOT ENOUGH
 
THANX SOME ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS!!! your breeder sound sensible, however does dogs being returned to her open her eyes and convince her to breed less? and does she neuter before rehoming them as adults?
 
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You mistook what i said i did not say that breeders should CHIP N NEUTER, this would be impossible unless they where willing to hang on to them until old enough to neuter !! THERE WOULD BE NO PROFIT IN A SELLING ON A 6 MONTH OLD NEUTERED DOG!!!! and thats is why most people do it... FOR PROFIT.

[/ QUOTE ]Hence why I said that was ridiculous!! LOL!!
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I do think it is discusting that the RSPCA let u take a entire dog from a so called rescue!!! the whole point is to not breed from a dog that was its self in a rescue situation or on death row. But then again the RSPCA are mostly useless anyway i know that through my job.

[/ QUOTE ]I guess because the pup came to my OH young he was no neutered as he was only a few months old, HOWEVER I do think that the RSPCA should write a contract stating that you must have the dog neutered and then follow up the owners and check this has actually been carried out!!
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Granted not all people can do what i do or see what i see, but hopefully a little education could reduce this appauling rescue/cruelty status we are facing today.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed... however typing caps suggests that you are shouting and angry when you write - so perhaps education in a polite manner might be best... you could however put all your text in BOLD that way people may pay more attention!! without thinking your shouting at them!!
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LIKE I SAID EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO AN OPINION

[/ QUOTE ]Indeed they are!!
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As to the comment of 24 being to many !!! I totally agree but until the people who can make a difference that is the AMATEUR/MONEY GRABBING/WORK SHY and PLAIN STUPID dog breeders stop what they r doing no doubt the 24 will keep on rising xxxxx

[/ QUOTE ]Again I agree to a degree - but I think again that breeders once the pup has been taken from their care, what right does a breeder have to say whether a dog/bitch can be breed!?
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... if agreed in the original contract then OK.. but again ... some people may be unsure if they want to breed.
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There is a few sensible dog breeders out there but like i say NOT ENOUGH

[/ QUOTE ]I don't think alot of these 'people' that do breed should be called 'BREEDERS' purely because IMO unless they are registered AS a breeder with the KC or relevant breed club... they are not true/recognised breeders?!

As for the 'Return to breeder if not wanted' contract/policy I think that is an EXCELLENT idea and should be conformed to by all.
 
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your breeder sound sensible, however does dogs being returned to her open her eyes and convince her to breed less? and does she neuter before rehoming them as adults?

[/ QUOTE ] Well to be fair to her she doesn't have many litters anyway and doesn't advertise because she always has people wanting her pups and they mostly go to people she knows and therefore she knows are likely to be responsible dog owners. The dog I spoke of (who was already neutered) is the only one I know of that has been returned, and that was due to a marital breakup where neither party had the facilities to keep the dog properly.

I suspect you may say that if no puppies were bred then people would have to give homes to rescue dogs instead. In my case, that would no be true - have had rescue dogs in the past and some have been lovely, but some also come with an lot of baggage and problems. Because of this, and because we have a child, we decided this time round to get a puppy rather than try to put right someone else's mistakes, although some may think this is rather a selfish approach to take.

I really don't know how the rescue dog problem can be improved, unless you take the drastic step of stopping all breeding
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. Education of potential owners is part of the key, so that they know all that dog ownership entails, the sort of problems they may encounter (house training probs, destructiveness) and the way to prevent or deal with them (crating, kongs, clicker training). I know our pup's breeder insists owners get a crate for the pup and also strongly recommend they take them to puppy class.

I do understand what you say, however, about people thinking only of the monetary gain from puppy breeding. Several times I've known people buy pedigree pups as family pets and said "£500 for one pup, what an easy way to make money, let's breed a litter ourselves".

It is a very difficult problem, with no easy solution.
 
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I do understand what you say, however, about people thinking only of the monetary gain from puppy breeding. Several times I've known people buy pedigree pups as family pets and said "£500 for one pup, what an easy way to make money, let's breed a litter ourselves".

It is a very difficult problem, with no easy solution.

[/ QUOTE ]That is exactly the problem TGM... our breeder suggested that as Finny is a prime specimen and has excellent breeding that if we do decide to breed from him (which ATM is not something we have thought about TBH) that we charge between £500-£800 stud fee!!
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... Really as OH says (NO mick he is not irresponsible - he was just being flippant) but if Finn 'gets his end away' and we get paid £500 for the pleasure then we'd be daft to turn down a potential bitch for him... HOWEVER I myself will only allow Finn to stand to a Rhodesian Ridgeback bitch... I won't allow crosses... and TBH there aren't many RR's around!! Although him being a stud dog is not something I think I want TBH.

HOWEVER from what I have said you can see why SOME people just let their dog get on with it and walk away with a pocket full of cash....!!!
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I would think long and hard before allowing Finn to be used at stud. Particularly if its just very occasionally as I have known dogs used like this to become "sex mad" and hard work to be around. Re the breeding thing, I used to breed GSDs, from hip scored parents after careful research of bloodlines etc, one litter a year max. Usually at least part of each litter was prebooked but I did find it harder to find suitable homes for them which was the main reason I stopped. As for the current situation, I know of one breeder who has one long coat pup left from a litter born in October. usually long coats sell really well, and the parents are hip scored etc, so yes I do think sales are slow. I suspect he may end up keeping this baby as his children have fallen for her!
 
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I would think long and hard before allowing Finn to be used at stud. Particularly if its just very occasionally as I have known dogs used like this to become "sex mad" and hard work to be around.

[/ QUOTE ]LOL Sex mad!!

TBH I'm really not keen on the idea, and only if approached will it become something we consider.. we may yet decide to have him neutered but for now are quite happy that he is who he is and unless any behaviourable problems occur.. will continue to keep him entire.

We will see!!
 
I suppose one point to consider is that at least if you are breeding from a bitch you have some control over who the puppies go to and you can try and vet the potential owners for suitability. Whereas if you own a stud dog you have no control over the puppies' fates
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. I suspect you may find it quite upsetting if you found out one of Finn's offspring had ended up in a rescue centre, or in a situation like the Doberman in the other post
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. I suppose you have to ask yourself whether it is something you can deal with or not.
 
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I suppose one point to consider is that at least if you are breeding from a bitch you have some control over who the puppies go to and you can try and vet the potential owners for suitability. Whereas if you own a stud dog you have no control over the puppies' fates
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. I suspect you may find it quite upsetting if you found out one of Finn's offspring had ended up in a rescue centre, or in a situation like the Doberman in the other post
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. I suppose you have to ask yourself whether it is something you can deal with or not.

[/ QUOTE ]Oh yes I know TGM, THAT is why I'm not sure I'd want him to stand to anyone!!

I can tell you now Finny cost my WONDERFUL OH alot of money... and he came from a litter of 16, 14 of which were sold... the breeder stood to make (excluding feed/vets etc that he had paid out) between £12 & £14,000 for just one litter!! THAT is why so many people breed I guess... Even if he had charged £200 a up he would have made £2800... and a breeder who has manybitches and dogs can 'pump' them out continuosly - I guess THAT is why there is such a problem
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Its interesting to read all our views and nice to see the majority have sensible approach to this subject, I do tend to use the CAPS LOCK alot, and this is because i am angry and frustrated on the subject, but thats only because i am very involved in the whole breeding and the results of breeding subject.
As I mentioned b4 the majority of breeding is carried out for the purpose of money, and most breeders are oblivious to the harm they cause!!!!! However even after reading this information someone has still mentioned possibly studding there pet dog!!!! SO EDUCATION ON THE SUBJECT CLEARLY DOES NOT PHASE EVERYONE!!!!!
I have a stunning looking DEERHOUND which belongs to my OH, we rescued him at 12 months of age and he cost the previous owners £1000 and had a fantastic pedigree, needless to say he was CASTRATED the day after we took him, because i refuse to be held responsible for charging a HUGE STUD FEE to be irresponsible and have no control where his off spring would end up and also I would be letting all of my rescue DOGS DOWN BY NOT PRACTICING WHAT i PREACH........ And the MOST IMPORTANT REASON was to provent him from TESTICULAR/BOWEL CANCER by letting him mature any longer this would have almost cut the risk completley as he was still young!!!!! I dont think studding him for £800 A TIME WAS WORTH RISKING HIS LIFE.
As a nurse i see dogs and bitches die/suffer through the consiquences of being left entire.
Our DEERHOUND is now 8 years old and we have been approached by over 20 people to use him for stud and i am more than happy to say NO!!!!!!
He is also used by my OH to hunt and it makes absoloutly no difference to his hunting ability for those who think it does!!!!
Just like all the NEUTERED WORKING POLICE DOGS that still perform their jobs without the help of testicles.

AS YOU ALL mentioned MONEY is one of the biggest factors in breeding, and i would be a millionaire by now if I breed from all the RESCUE dogs i have Re-homed over the years!!! maybe I am the STUPID ONE.
 
Everyone who bought a puppy from me used to sign a contract stating that they would contact me if they could not keep the dog and I would either take it back or assist them in rehoming. I only had two dogs returned, one due to the sad death of his owne and the other because their older dog and the new dog started fighting, but was able to find new home s quite quickly. I did have one bitch I bred end up in GSD rescue, but because all my pups were tattooed before leaving me the rescue owner was able to contact me. I also sold all pups with an endorsement on their KC reg saying not for breeding. If they wanted to breed they could come back and discuss it thoroughly with me and decide if the dog was suitable for breeding etc. Also, yes there is a lot of money to be made out of a litter, but don't forget things can often go wrong. It only takes one emergency caesarian section and a fair chunk of the profit has gone. As things stand at the moment I think I am quite glad I no longer have pups to sell, but do love that lovely puppy smell etc. A litter of pups is a great time waster!
 
You sound very sensible and EXPERIENCED you need to educate people with this experience, there are far to many INEXPERIENCED people out there, it suprises me how many people on these sites are thinking of STUDDING/BREEDINGcos they think there dog is cute or gagging for sex, and the people themselves dont sound like they have a CLUE!!!!! (this scares me) I applaud the fact that you kept track of your dogs, and whilst I understand that people want to buy puppies/pedigree pets from breeders.... The breeding its self needs to be regulated and done so by VERY EXPERIENCED people. and TAXED this would prove signifigant to the MONEY MAKING side of it.
 
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Also, yes there is a lot of money to be made out of a litter, but don't forget things can often go wrong. It only takes one emergency caesarian section and a fair chunk of the profit has gone.

[/ QUOTE ] Very valid point - I know someone who bred a litter, but the bitch needed a caesarian section and some of the pups were poorly and needed vet treatment. In the end only one pup survived, so with the stud fee and cost of vet treatment the owner was very much out of pocket. I think that is something that prospective breeders should take into consideration, as is the fact that you may also risk losing the bitch altogether
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The problem is most of the inexperienced and clueless dont even know what a c- section is, and those who come across them tend to be more interested in how many puppies r going to make it, than how the bitch is doing!!!!
Then there are those who r studding there dogs who dont even have to worry about that side of things or the fact that they r risking the dog getting TESTICULAR cancer in later life.

I also think for most SO CALLED breeders the benefits far out way the risks!!!! MONEY that is.

But you do have a good point if people are willing to LISTEN and LEARN.
 
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However even after reading this information someone has still mentioned possibly studding there pet dog!!!! SO EDUCATION ON THE SUBJECT CLEARLY DOES NOT PHASE EVERYONE!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]I assume you are referring to my comments....?

Well yes breeding from my RR is an option... however not something that we actively plan to do... we will see what the future holds, TBH I don't know that I would want to let him 'stand' as I don't want to risk 'changing' him in anyway... nor do I want to hear that (it may happen) that the puppies end up in rescue centres etc..

HOWEVER if we do decide to let him 'stand' then it wouldn't be a light decision, we wouldn't just let anyone use him.. and equally we would want to know the progress of pups/bitch and be involved in the process of homing etc!! THAT would be a MUST!!!

like I said - it's an option but not something we are going to in anyway actively persue nor advertise!! If it happens it happens if it doesn't then I'm happy anyways!!

TBH I'd be happy if it doesn't happen...
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I have a stunning looking DEERHOUND which belongs to my OH, we rescued him at 12 months of age and he cost the previous owners £1000 and had a fantastic pedigree, needless to say he was CASTRATED the day after we took him, because i refuse to be held responsible for charging a HUGE STUD FEE to be irresponsible and have no control where his off spring would end up

[/ QUOTE ]The responsibility and control of off spring is something that could be discussed/contracted before the dog stands!! If the person using your dogs is responsible they won't have an issue with the terms... if they do have an issue, simple the dog doesn't stand?!
 
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