Breeding a foal for yourself?

[elsielouise]

Hi

Another to breed or not question but thoughts appreciated

My mare is fifteen now and I have owned her since weanling. She has done a bit of everything over the years an I thoroughly enjoy her. She is well put together and has a lovely nature. However she is now fifteen and just slightly showing some wear in her joints. (Work up last year).

I have an offer of a free cover from a lovely purebred stallion (my mare is WB x) from one friend and a local very experienced stud owner friend who has offered to help as well as a repro vet friend.

If I do put her in foal I will keep the foal for me and retire my mare in four years or so with her foal grown.

But - I am worried about the risks to my mare given she is an older maiden and I know I almost certainly can buy something at weaning age that will suit me - and probably find something that looks like my ideal if I did breed my mare.

I love my mare, would love her foal and the stallion is GP dressage horse in training with v well known rider and is lovely. I have seen his progeny and they are good.

All my experienced friends say she is worth breeding from, my farrier also agrees but... At the final decision stage I want to be sure.

Is it really that big a risk? Vet friend says not, stud owner says not (but lost a foal last year to tragic accident), and experienced stud owner has just spent the last week tube feeding a dummy foal.)


WWYD?

Is breeding one for yourself different to breeding for a market in more ways than the obvious?

 

[PorkChop]

If it was me I wouldn't, I know people who have put older mares in foal for the first time but imho it just isn't worth the risk.

Go and buy yourself a foal or youngster if you want to back and bring on your own, you may save yourself a whole lot of worry and money.

Good luck with whatever you decide

 

[JillA]

Don't do it is my advice - you can go out and buy a weanling or a yearling and see what you are getting, without risk to your mare, and probably much less cost. I have wasted so much money breeding foals, for every three there was always one with a blemish/health problem or similar, and the perfect, sound ones never realised their true value. Let someone else take the financial hit. And there are already more than enough horses in the world.

 

[Spring Feather]

It's really up to you at the end of the day. I wouldn't breed a maiden at 15 years old but I am known to be quite conservative about which mares I breed. 15 years old isn't old for a riding horse or a career broodmare, and many people have bred maiden mares at this age, I just wouldn't.

One main thing I'd say, never breed a foal for yourself! Always breed a foal with a mindset to sell it, even if you never ever do.

 

[hobo]

One main thing I'd say, never breed a foal for yourself! Always breed a foal with a mindset to sell it, even if you never ever do.[/QUOTE]

Above quote is how I bred mine for me to see me through to my twilight years but hopefully good anough to sell. My mare was a bit younger foaled aged 10, put in foal straight after 2nd place in BE100 so fit and well.

Said youngster is now rising 3 and has cost a fortune but so far everything I planned. Though ask me again in a year or two lol.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I bred from my Welsh D X TB X Arab star of a pony over 20 years ago. She was a fantastic pony and so much fun so decided to breed from her to a TB stallion as I wanted something a bit bigger. She produced a filly who is now rising 20 and still with me but it really didn't turn out as I expected. She is a lovely looking mare but only made 14.2/3hh and has had so many health issues that she has been retired since the age of 6. Also bought a miniature year before last who I knew was in foal with her 4th baby but unfortunately she had a still birth last year which was so upsetting for us and her and brought to light the things that can go wrong. Last year I also heard of someone who had only lost their foal but had then lost the mare too due to complications. There are risks and you don't always end up with what you expect or really want whereas you can buy a youngster that is right for you without putting your mare at risk.

 

[whisp&willow]

my mare was a maiden at 15, (foaled at 16) She was fine and produced a nice filly who was bred to keep for when she is slowing down.

Saying that, whisp is still going strong at rising 19, and I dont plan on her stopping anytime soon.

We had no problems with the pregnancy, or foaling, and I love willow to bits, BUT. It has cost me a fortune, and I wont even be backing her this year, as she is still quite small and I am in no rush.

It has been a great experience, but that is only because we had no complications. I would not have bred from her again, it took a lot out of her, and IF I was to be looking for a future horse when willow is of breeding age, I would be inclined to say I would buy rather than breed.

good luck in your decision, I hope things work out for the best either way. xx

 

[elsielouise]

Thank you all. I have to say am erring on the don't do it side but a bit pressured from my friends who own the stally/would be doing the AI and the delivery. However I am a one horse owner and they are not; so the emotion isn't the same.

One idea is to look at related progeny to my mare and see if I can find anything - I saw a nice looking colt for example that's a 'cousin' and one I'd be pleased to produce.

I think I can talk myself into either camp and that's the issue. Cost isn't relevant too much as have such good veterinary and stud support and anything we bred would be saleable I just don't want to damage my mare.

I've always said I want to be hacking her round the block when she is thirty and I am pushing sixty so maybe the better option is to buy... That begs the question of when though....?

 

[JanetGeorge]

I think I can talk myself into either camp and that's the issue. Cost isn't relevant too much as have such good veterinary and stud support and anything we bred would be saleable I just don't want to damage my mare.

Believe me - if you're unlucky, cost IS relevent. I'll give you an example:

Bronte is a very good, well-bred RID mare, full sister to an RID stallion in Ireland and full sister to the dam of an RID stallion in Ireland! So well worth breeding from!

I put her in foal for the first time at 13 - to my own stallion. She was 'tricky' and ran up a decent total in scanning, oxytocin etc etc before she was in foal - and lost it along the way! Next year, same thing! I would GUESS that in addition to her keep, vet's fees came to £500 per year - no stud fee for my own stallion but HE has to pay his way!

Year 3 she carried the foal full term - and had a stunning filly which was poorly from a few hours old! By the time we lost her at 5 days old, she'd run up £750 in vet's fees!!

Year 4 (yes, I'm a mug!) she got in foal, lost it at 28 days, was covered again - and twinned but vet missed it (it was back-to-back twins - view complicated with cysts!) and we only found it at 55 days (when she'd been on nice expensive Regumate for 40 odd days.) Stopped the Regumate and HOPED for natural regression (as it was too late to terminate and re-cover) and the last scan (yesterday) says she is still in foal but now with one only! IF she goes full term - and the foal survives - it may be the most expensive foal I've ever bred!

Another example: an RID mare, had foaled before I bought her, put to a modest sized RID stallion - the biggest ruddy foal you've ever seen! Took me two hours to get it out (while waiting for vet to show!) and an hour after the vet left having given her antibiotics and anti-inflammatories, the mare was on the floor in a BAD way! She'd bled into the broad ligament and it was touch and go (and £700 in vet's bills) before we knew she'd survive!

There are mares who are easy to get in foal, who produce live foals which survive with just basic care. If I didn't have some of those, breeding would have bankrupted me years ago! But the extra costs of just one 'problem mare' can wipe out any potential; 'profit' from an easy 6 foals! If you're just breeding one foal, you can be lucky - or it CAN turn out to be the most expensive horse you've ever owned!

 

[carthorse]

My friend put her lovely jumping mare in foal at 17 to Showmaker. All fine. We bought the filly as a yearling she is now 5 and had her first report and photo in H&H last week. It can have a happy ending

 

[whisp&willow]

all relevant JG, and well worth bearing in mind if thinking of breeding- but the costs I was meaning were mainly due to the upkeep of said foal...! (Sorry to read of your mare's troubles though. )

To get willow on the ground cost me around £700. (as I said, no complications etc only covering, transport and scanning)

Since she was born I have spent a fortune in feeding, not to mention clothing the beast, and she's not even got any tack yet!

This is without any unfortunate incidents which require veterinary assistance. As said, I wouldnt change my experience... but I could probably have bought a cracking horse who was broken for the amount I've spent in maintainance of the one I bred...

 

[elsielouise]

Sorry yes J G - I accept the risks of high cost are a consideration. I am basing my comments on the fact that unless surgery or foal neonatal care is required; and I would take a view on that in terms of prognosis, my veterinary costs would be drugs and consumables in a worse case scenario where attention is required.

This of course is highly dependant on my personal circumstance and my accountant husband won't even factor it in but I had been budgeting the cost of buying a weanling of similar breeding as my 'costs' before I worry. Given no stud fee/keep at stud fee/minimal AI fees - I.e no scanning costs etc.

I also know that with the best will in the world and great support it still costs at least £300 for a plasma transfusion round here and that's without VAT and would be something I'd have to pay for, and lab costs etc etc....

Talking self out of it again....

Thank you - just trying to minimise. The risk of regretting my decision either way.





I

 

[elsielouise]

Also adding - I bought the mare for £700 as a weanling in 1998 and she has cost me only feed and care til riding age. But I'd probably buy a weanling again as love playing with the babies though similar foals seem to cost £2-3k now.....

Hmmmmm....

 

[jaynec]

I bred my maiden event mare at 16 & she foaled at 17, with no problems. She went back into work and is fit and well at 19, with a lovely 2 year old gelding to show for it. It was the first time I'd bred a foal, from my cherished horse of a lifetime & it was an amazing experience. I'm very glad I did it, but it was terrifying and I appreciate I was lucky. Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[Flora]

If I was to do it again, I would def buy! The first foal I bred to sell, didnt make the height we expected but the mare did get in foal first time,so costs werent that expensive. Second one I bred to keep, but took 3 attempts to get in foal( the mare was 18yrs), then foal was born with bent legs and down on the fetlocks, so had surgery and foot extensions at a month old,when on box rest her mother lay on her and fractured her fetlock, surgery could only be done when she was 1yr old so more box rest til then! Eventually sent her away for backing, £2k, and she grew to 17.2h so I sold her and only managed £1500! Cost an absolute fortune and a lot of heartache! However, I did breed from a little tb last year as I always wanted a coloured foal, mare in foal first time, coloured foal arrived and he is perfect and Im keeping him!
Its a hard choice and a lot of luck but at least you can see what you are buying if you go for a youngster. Good luck

 

[AMH]

Three years ago I put a friend's mare in foal - I love the mare to pieces and wanted to see if I could produce something as lovely for myself. Only difference from your situation is that, although an older mare, she had produced a couple of foals in her earlier years. She had been graded and performance tested with very respectable scores and got to Adv Med dressage, so I felt her an appropriate candidate as broodmare material.

She ended up delivering twins, despite the early scan showing only one - I spent the worst week of my life trying to keep one of them alive, a battle we lost. I had to sell my horsebox to pay my vet bill.

Three years on, I have a lovely, lovely filly. I still don't know if she'll get big enough for me to sit on, but she's beautiful and very like her mother.

Would I do it again? Absolutely. I bred from a mare I love, with a stallion I thought was appropriate. The result wasn't exactly what I'd anticipated, but it's been a hell of an experience. And even if my filly doesn't get big enough for me and I do have to sell her on, she will make someone a very lovely horse and hopefully make them as happy as she makes me every time I see her trot across the field

By the by, I don't see 15 being vastly too old for a maiden. I'd give it careful thought, but it wouldn't necessarily put me off completely.

 

[LynH]

I wanted to breed from one of my mares for me to keep as my next horse. My friend offered me a free covering from her stallion and I researched another stallion that also had the attributes I was looking for in case I needed more than one attempt. I found a good stud that would keep my mare throughout her pregnancy and would be able to foal her for me and keep them both until weaning as I have never done this before. I also made arrangements for the foal to live with other youngsters until I was ready to start it.
My mare produced really good follicles every season and there was no physical reason but she didn't take. I had 5 attempts and all the veterinary assistance etc but it was not to be. I did learn a lot from the experience and I was upset every time she didn't take but I was also relieved once we stopped trying as I had signed up to various stud and foaling FB pages and I couldn't believe how many times it went wrong. That year two people I know lost mares when foaling and every time I looked at FB it felt like someone was either offering their mare as a foster mare because they lost their foal or had lost the mare and were looking for a foster mare or advice on hand rearing. I know that the majority go well but as a one mare owner and no previous breeding experience I would have been devastated if anything had gone wrong and I had lost either mare or foal.
It's a lot of money to get a mare in foal if they don't take first time but I was prepared for that. I wasn't however prepared for the fact I could lose her and every time I see a FB status where the mare or foal didn't make it I feel a huge sense of relief that my mare didn't take after all. Saying that whenever I see foals I wonder what my mare's foal would have looked like.
I'm now looking forward to finding a nice young horse to buy that will definitely be the right size, sex and temperament for what I want to do rather than taking the gamble that I would have bred one that turned out to be exactly what I want. It's a hard decision which no one can make but you, I just wanted to share my experience/ lack of experience.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

If I had had the money I wouldnt have sold my last mare, I would have given her a year off and taken a foal from her, I was looking at Welsh D and Connie Stallions as to add a bit of substance to her. She was well put together, sound and athletic, fantastic paces and a cracking jump. She blew a tendon and was being rested anyways, nut unfortunately job issues forced me to sell her and loan my gelding out so it never came to be.

So yes I would breed for myself, yes you could go out there and buy but I dont class breeding for yourself as backyard breeding.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

There are risks with all of it. Going out and buying a weanling or yearling can be as heartbreaking as breeding your mare. I mean we are speaking in terms of what can go wrong and the expense involved. That can happen with any horse any time.

I think anyone who has bred multiple foals over years has had tradgedy and unexpected expenses. Spring Feather is right though, breed as if you would have to sell. And it really doesn't matter how nice stallion is or how free, how does he match your mare? It will be easy enough to pick apart the stallion. Not so much with your beloved mare.

And while most foalings go just fine, you do have the possibility of losing mare or foal or both. Again that can happen anytime, but sometimes we feel guilty as we chose to put them in foal.

My mare Stella gave me 5 beautiful foals. One died in a pasture accident and I sold 2 very well. I won't breed her again. She is 14 now. The people who have her last foal who is now 3, want me to breed to their fully approved GP winning jumper stalllion. I can't do that to her. She's done enough and I'm not a commercial breeder. Plus I have a beautiful daughter I can breed from when she's done more competition.

Best of luck
Terri

 

[Victoria25]

I put my maiden mare in foal last year and she caught first time (via AI), had to have a twin popped but all went to plan. Expecting the very wiggly baby any day now (touch wood) .. my mare is also a much loved family member/pet and hope to god the birth goes well #vetondirectdial x

 

[elsielouise]

So fifty:fifty it is practically.....

The stallion does match - physically anyway, both have lovely natures. Still erring in the don't. rode her out this morning, don't want her to have the time off really... Now, how much is embryo transfer again.....?