Tharg
Well-Known Member
I suppose its the luck of the draw regarding genetics, but of course no resonable owner would take obsessive risks
Breeding. Big stallion to a small mare?
- Thread starter Enfys
- Start date
siennamum
Well-Known Member
I personally wouldn't allow more than a hand in difference - especially with a maiden mare.
I think it's one of those situations where science tells us one thing and 'experience' tells us another, although the foetus isn't supposed to allow the foal to ourgrow it's mother I've known some horrible situations where mare can't deliver large foal or there are complications which seem unneccesary.
I think it's one of those situations where science tells us one thing and 'experience' tells us another, although the foetus isn't supposed to allow the foal to ourgrow it's mother I've known some horrible situations where mare can't deliver large foal or there are complications which seem unneccesary.
Gingernags
Well-Known Member
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Sure what about foals whose don`t properly straighten and walk crooked for a bit, surely there is not something right there.
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We had a foal at the stud with contracted tendons... couldn't possibly have been caused by how much room there was for the foal to grow in though - the mare was an 18hh shire!!!!
Sure what about foals whose don`t properly straighten and walk crooked for a bit, surely there is not something right there.
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We had a foal at the stud with contracted tendons... couldn't possibly have been caused by how much room there was for the foal to grow in though - the mare was an 18hh shire!!!!
Enfys
Well-Known Member
Thankyou everyone, interesting and informative comments as always. It would be the covering side of things that would concern me most.
I don't know what is going to happen after she has this foal, I would like to ride her but she's 16 now, been a broodmare all her life it appears, and although she is supposed to be broken I don't know whether it would be fair to start riding her at that age, but that's another question.
I don't know what is going to happen after she has this foal, I would like to ride her but she's 16 now, been a broodmare all her life it appears, and although she is supposed to be broken I don't know whether it would be fair to start riding her at that age, but that's another question.
Kermie
Well-Known Member
I think breeding is risky enough without adding unnecessary risks of foals being stuck during delivery, etc. A girl on a previous yard lost a foal when her 12hh mare gave birth to it - the foal was huge (covering had been a mistake prior to girl owning the pony).
I know there are people who say the mare dictates the size of the foal, but there are also those who say otherwise. I remember posting a question on Saddle Up (which has lots of experienced breeders amongst its membership) whether I should put my big-boned, deep Fell mare (13.2hh) to a 15.2hh stallion and the resounding answer was no, unless I was prepared to take the risk of losing her.
They gave me lots of examples of where they had experienced sad losses. I would rather learn from their experience than make a grave error.
I know there are people who say the mare dictates the size of the foal, but there are also those who say otherwise. I remember posting a question on Saddle Up (which has lots of experienced breeders amongst its membership) whether I should put my big-boned, deep Fell mare (13.2hh) to a 15.2hh stallion and the resounding answer was no, unless I was prepared to take the risk of losing her.
They gave me lots of examples of where they had experienced sad losses. I would rather learn from their experience than make a grave error.
0ldmare
Well-Known Member
My friends shetland got together with a warmblood and has managed to survive and produced a rather over-sized foal. Probably not recommended tho!
amandaco2
Well-Known Member
i wouldnt, sep if it also a build difference between them.
a big chunky foal in a small slight mare isnt going to come out easily.
a big chunky foal in a small slight mare isnt going to come out easily.
Kermie
Well-Known Member
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My friends shetland got together with a warmblood and has managed to survive and produced a rather over-sized foal. Probably not recommended tho!
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I think that's the problem - there will always be examples of where it has worked out okay but IMO that doesn't make it right. I would hate having to call the vet out to one of my mares and have to cope with her being ripped to bits by the foal and perhaps not even surviving. Everytime we do decide to breed, we take a risk but I really don't think we should increase the odds of having a problem. Maybe I'm in the minority but my ponies are important to me and I wouldn't want to live with any dire consequences.
My friends shetland got together with a warmblood and has managed to survive and produced a rather over-sized foal. Probably not recommended tho!
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I think that's the problem - there will always be examples of where it has worked out okay but IMO that doesn't make it right. I would hate having to call the vet out to one of my mares and have to cope with her being ripped to bits by the foal and perhaps not even surviving. Everytime we do decide to breed, we take a risk but I really don't think we should increase the odds of having a problem. Maybe I'm in the minority but my ponies are important to me and I wouldn't want to live with any dire consequences.
Tia
Well-Known Member
I think the point is being completely missed
.
The foetus does not rip open the mare; the foetus is the same size as it would be if the mare had been bred to a stallion of the same size. The foetus can generally ONLY grow to the size of the mare's womb whether it was made from a 5hh stallion or a 19hh stallion.
A foal is not a foetus and a foetus is not a foal....this is where the confusion seems to be coming from.
The foetus does not rip open the mare; the foetus is the same size as it would be if the mare had been bred to a stallion of the same size. The foetus can generally ONLY grow to the size of the mare's womb whether it was made from a 5hh stallion or a 19hh stallion.
A foal is not a foetus and a foetus is not a foal....this is where the confusion seems to be coming from.
MillionDollar
Well-Known Member
Well said Tia!!!!
I'm sorry Kermie but i think you're missing the point and i don't agree.
Like Tia says it does not matter what size the sire is.
I'm sorry Kermie but i think you're missing the point and i don't agree.
Like Tia says it does not matter what size the sire is.
Kermie
Well-Known Member
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Well said Tia!!!!
I'm sorry Kermie but i think you're missing the point and i don't agree.
Like Tia says it does not matter what size the sire is.
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I did say I would be in the minority but it doesn't mean I can't offer my opinion. Like I said, I have seen a foal that was too large and the vet confirmed this once he helped the mare deliver it - the mare was lucky not to have the same fate as her foal.
Obviously the others I have heard about are stories from others so they don't relate to personal experience, but I don't think reputable breeders are inclined to make stories up!
And as for the "humans are the same" - that is not true either. My sister is 4' 11" and had a baby of 8lbs 14 ozs. The delivery had to be forceps because of its size compared to her pelvis and my sister had to carry around a donut cushion for a year until she had healed enough to have an operation to repair the damage. She had to have sections after that one.
Well said Tia!!!!
I'm sorry Kermie but i think you're missing the point and i don't agree.
Like Tia says it does not matter what size the sire is.
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I did say I would be in the minority but it doesn't mean I can't offer my opinion. Like I said, I have seen a foal that was too large and the vet confirmed this once he helped the mare deliver it - the mare was lucky not to have the same fate as her foal.
Obviously the others I have heard about are stories from others so they don't relate to personal experience, but I don't think reputable breeders are inclined to make stories up!
And as for the "humans are the same" - that is not true either. My sister is 4' 11" and had a baby of 8lbs 14 ozs. The delivery had to be forceps because of its size compared to her pelvis and my sister had to carry around a donut cushion for a year until she had healed enough to have an operation to repair the damage. She had to have sections after that one.
siennamum
Well-Known Member
Likewise, my friend lost mare & foal (it had to be cut from her), because she couldn't deliver it. She was a sturdy little cob. The foal had simply grown too large to be delivered. There's probably no right or wrong answer, but I'd see little sense in taking an unneccesary risk.
I'm confused also about what point it is that we're missing.
I'm confused also about what point it is that we're missing.
MillionDollar
Well-Known Member
Where did i say you couldn't offer your opinion??
All i said was that i did not agree which is my opinion! Jeez.
Plus i think you could call Tia a reputable breeder. And i have friends who are breeders, including one who runs a large stud.
All i said was that i did not agree which is my opinion! Jeez.
Plus i think you could call Tia a reputable breeder. And i have friends who are breeders, including one who runs a large stud.
AmyMay
Situation normal
I've got to be honest, I never gave it any thought when I put Amy in foal (rightly or wrongly). I just chose the stallion I thought most appropriate for the job.
Kermie
Well-Known Member
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Where did i say you couldn't offer your opinion??
All i said was that i did not agree which is my opinion! Jeez.
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Okay you didn't say I couldn't offer my opinion, but you did say I was missing the point which is not the case.
Tell that to the breeder who had to watch the vet cut her dead foal into pieces in order to save her mare's life or to the breeder who had to tie ropes round a foal that was too large for the mare to deliver and which foal sadly suffocated before they could get it out.
I didn't say Tia wasn't a reputable breeder - I have nothing to base that on, but I would say the people I am referring to have been breeding quality horses and ponies for upwards of 20 year and given what I have personally witnessed, I am obviously going to go along with the views of those I know have been at the top of their game for years.
Where did i say you couldn't offer your opinion??
All i said was that i did not agree which is my opinion! Jeez.
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Okay you didn't say I couldn't offer my opinion, but you did say I was missing the point which is not the case.
Tell that to the breeder who had to watch the vet cut her dead foal into pieces in order to save her mare's life or to the breeder who had to tie ropes round a foal that was too large for the mare to deliver and which foal sadly suffocated before they could get it out.
I didn't say Tia wasn't a reputable breeder - I have nothing to base that on, but I would say the people I am referring to have been breeding quality horses and ponies for upwards of 20 year and given what I have personally witnessed, I am obviously going to go along with the views of those I know have been at the top of their game for years.
sallyf
Well-Known Member
siennamum,
I think your right on this one , everyone is entitled to there own opinions on this argument .
You have to go with what is comfortable.
I have seen little mares that have foaled to bigger stallions easily , i have also seen big mares that have not been able to deliver to smaller stallions.
I personally dont like too big a differance between mare and stallion but that is what i am comfortable with and we are usually trying to breed to type not change too much about the mare .
Fortunately (madly touches wood) we have never had any problems taking this view.
I also believe that if you need to put a small mare to a very large stallion to breed height then you should be breeding from a bigger mare.
The best and most consistant foals come from breeding like to like.
The biggest problems that i have seen is when people put big roomy mares to heavy boned stallions but fail to see that the mare doesnt have a broad enough pelvis to get the foal out of.
There will always be exception with small mares foaling to big stallions but then sadly it can go the other way as a frind of mine found out last year when her 3/4 ID couldnt foal and both mare and foal sadly died.
She had foaled the previous year to same small T.B stallion with no bother.
I think your right on this one , everyone is entitled to there own opinions on this argument .
You have to go with what is comfortable.
I have seen little mares that have foaled to bigger stallions easily , i have also seen big mares that have not been able to deliver to smaller stallions.
I personally dont like too big a differance between mare and stallion but that is what i am comfortable with and we are usually trying to breed to type not change too much about the mare .
Fortunately (madly touches wood) we have never had any problems taking this view.
I also believe that if you need to put a small mare to a very large stallion to breed height then you should be breeding from a bigger mare.
The best and most consistant foals come from breeding like to like.
The biggest problems that i have seen is when people put big roomy mares to heavy boned stallions but fail to see that the mare doesnt have a broad enough pelvis to get the foal out of.
There will always be exception with small mares foaling to big stallions but then sadly it can go the other way as a frind of mine found out last year when her 3/4 ID couldnt foal and both mare and foal sadly died.
She had foaled the previous year to same small T.B stallion with no bother.
Kermie
Well-Known Member
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siennamum,
I think your right on this one , everyone is entitled to there own opinions on this argument .
You have to go with what is comfortable.
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That is very true and I apologise if I am overly zealous about my viewpoint. It is difficult to remain detached when you are talking about something you are passionate about (as I am with breeding ponies).
siennamum,
I think your right on this one , everyone is entitled to there own opinions on this argument .
You have to go with what is comfortable.
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That is very true and I apologise if I am overly zealous about my viewpoint. It is difficult to remain detached when you are talking about something you are passionate about (as I am with breeding ponies).
Tia
Well-Known Member
You aren't over-zealous. You are just saying your opinion on how you see it that's all. No worries.
Freak incidents happen everyday - that's just life, so you are only pointing out these happenings and there is nothing wrong with that at all.
Freak incidents happen everyday - that's just life, so you are only pointing out these happenings and there is nothing wrong with that at all.