Breeding costs

jumbyjack

jumbyjack

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B it of a sad or what the heck situation when I was at the vets last night. Bitch brought in with stuck puppy, two already born. Inwith get for ages, came out, no puppy produced and dog needs caesarean, owners can't afford it so leave with injections. I would assume it you are going to breed then the cost of this should be factored in. So what happens if stuck puppy doesn't appear, dog will still need surgery or she will die then there are two newborns without mum. Can the vet go down a cruelty route and pull in RSPCA or the like? Can't get little dog out of my head!
 
WTAF??!! Why did the vets allow that to happen, it’s blatant cruelty! Yes I know very well that vets aren’t charities and need to operate as businesses with bills to pay, but all the ones I know have been fantastic about accepting instalment plans.

Owners should be banned from EVER owning an animal again 😡
 
I know vets have to make money and are not running a charity for people who are irresponsible but in cases such as this I am not sure the vet should have allowed the dog to leave, although you obviously do not know what was said in the surgery, they should have done the op and taken payment in installments or possibly kept it in and assisted with delivery if not wanting to operate, then if pups were sold that may have paid for it, a tricky one as you will never know the outcome or what went on out of sight but I am not sure in the circumstances the vet is not in part to blame if the outcome was bad.

I would hope most practices have some ability to be flexible with their clients and do want to help the animals not just their profit margin, certainly some will take on and rehome animals genuinely in need or get the welfare charities involved.

Too many people think breeding puppies will make them easy money with no thought to anything other than the cash at the end of it, we have far too many dogs in care as it is.
 
What a terrible situation. If I thought the owner was genuinely unable to pay and was distressed for the little dog, I hope I'd be tempted to get my credit card out, otherwise, I'd phone the Blue Cross and let them decide whether to alert the RSPCA or offer assistance after proof of income.
That said, it's easy to say what you think you'd do, but harder to take action when suddenly faced with a difficult situation like that. I hope the outcome was successful for the little dog and that maybe, the vet, who made a clinical judgement at the time, thought there was a reasonable chance.
 
Often an injection will be enough to get things going,meaning a ceasarian is avoided. The bitch is better off at home as being in a strange place can slow labour down.
It may not be as straight forward as you think.
 
twiggy2 said:
Often an injection will be enough to get things going,meaning a ceasarian is avoided. The bitch is better off at home as being in a strange place can slow labour down.
It may not be as straight forward as you think.
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In my experience if the bitch has already had 2 pups then giving pituitrin (assuming they still use that?) is downright dangerous IF there is a stuck puppy as it encourages the bitch to strain further and result in ruptures. In fact I’ve never known it used when pups have already been produced, and I’ve known of a fair few litters being born over the years.....

I hope above all else that the facts are not as the OP thought and there wasn’t actually a stuck puppy ☹️
 
Sorry, I've got to ask, but how do you know the dog needed surgery or it would die? Were you in the consulting room or are you just assuming a lot of this? If you could overhear the consultation, then I would suggest the surgery need to re-think their privacy practices because 'trial by forum' by random customers isn't acceptable :(

If it's cesarean or die, then no vet in their right mind would have sent the dog home. They have a duty of care to follow.
 
Vet nurses were dashing about setting up for surgery! If pup dies then unless emergency surgery is done mum will die for sure. I hope the injections work and all is well. Maybe vet did offer payment plan. Owner did not seem to want to pay for surgery as totally focused on remarking £1800!!
 
jumbyjack said:
Vet nurses were dashing about setting up for surgery! If pup dies then unless emergency surgery is done mum will die for sure. I hope the injections work and all is well. Maybe vet did offer payment plan. Owner did not seem to want to pay for surgery as totally focused on remarking £1800!!
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Dead pups can be born they don't men the birch will die.
Levrier said:
In my experience if the bitch has already had 2 pups then giving pituitrin (assuming they still use that?) is downright dangerous IF there is a stuck puppy as it encourages the bitch to strain further and result in ruptures. In fact I’ve never known it used when pups have already been produced, and I’ve known of a fair few litters being born over the years.....

I hope above all else that the facts are not as the OP thought and there wasn’t actually a stuck puppy ☹️
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I have known an injection to be given and things to be aucessful-not sure what the injection was though.
An examination action can also stretch the bitch allowing for a natural delivery.
 
Oxytocin is given nowadays during whelping, but this is to deal with inertia, or post whelping to ensure all placentas passed, so if the pup was definitely stuck then don't think it would be wise. I'm not sure at what stage (if at all) a vet can over rule an owner in a case like this.
 
MurphysMinder said:
Oxytocin is given nowadays during whelping, but this is to deal with inertia, or post whelping to ensure all placentas passed, so if the pup was definitely stuck then don't think it would be wise. I'm not sure at what stage (if at all) a vet can over rule an owner in a case like this.
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Exactly MM - it shouldn’t however be given mid-whelping if a pup is stuck, which was the point I was making

Driving a bitch around in a car can also stimulate her to get on with things when whelping if we are swapping anecdotes 😄
 
The alternative to the injections would be euthanasia to prevent suffering...and no one wants to go down that line least of all the vet and their team as killing puppies and a labouring mother isn't generally why you join the veterinary profession.

The injection will work for some dogs though it's not without risks...that the owner will be made aware of in the consult...it also gives them time to consider their options for treatment.

Unless owners were able to contact a charity as an intervention(pdsa wont help with breeding related issues so they are out) or surrender the dog to a rescue who then cover the cost there isnt a lot of options that dont involve making the owner take responsibility for paying their own bill for surgery preformed if they want to have live pups.

If it was out of hours the costs are high so they may be trying to buy time and returning to a day practice that may be more affordable....but the owner will be made aware that they are likely going to lose any further puppies by waiting and potentially the mother as well if they chose that option.

The days of running up invoices without payment or expecting the vet practices to eat the cost on these sort of situations are pretty much coming to an end now corporations run vet practices rather then individuals. Corporations run vet practices as a business and very very few "payment plans" set up in these sort of situations traditionally got paid...despite all the promises made at the time they were arranged. In an emergency clinic setting its not an option at all, bar via offering credit through ouside financial companies.

It used to be relatively common for surrenders to happen...where a client would sign over a pet they couldnt afford to treat but didnt want to euthanise,vet would treat and eat the cost as a business or pay out of pocket(depending on the practice)and then rehome...not ideal but it saved a lot of animals in the past....but thanks to some social media backlash thats also strongly discouraged now as well.

There are very few practices left that do payment plans for non established clients. Simply as your meant to be an approved credit institution to offer credit. The ones that do are a dying breed and usually only will do it for longterm clients or run an accounts system already which is different to payment plans(generally a mixed practice thing)

This incidentally is actually not that uncommon of a situation...I've heard of it happening multiple times and experienced it a few times. Irresponsible breeders never seem to prep for the fact that things might go wrong. These situations are often seen at emergency clinics because dogs whelp at night and those clinics cannot afford to get a reputation for doing cheap/free csections.

Where I work we offer multiple credit lines through a few different companies and we are cheaper then an emergency clinic. If the owners are denied all the above theres a local charity who will intervene...but they insist on desexing the dog and that usually isn't an option for the breeder who usually want to breed said dog again. Most decide that actually they might be able to find the cash...if we think the pups are still alive making the op possibly "worth it"...dead pups and a risky surgery and they usually spay and or surrender to charity.

People on here who love their dogs forget not everyone in the dog world is a good owner and treats them as pets. Breeding for a quick buck is a popular way of making "easy money"
It was easier when it was blue staffies that were popular as easy money makers,they often free whelp and are usually quite sweet dogs, the frenchies and chi's that are popular at the moment are making the above scenario more and more common.

Of course its usually the vets that get blamed for being cruel in these situation and not treating on the promise of payment.... but when you see it time and time again...it's easy to be jaded about it.

I've yet to have to euthanise or heard of it being done in these situations though. In my experience once euthansia is mentioned as an option most owners are horrifed and call you cruel for suggesting it( ironic considering the fact they have left the dog labouring all night rather then pay the emergency fee's,so by the time they come to us so the dogs been suffering a while and is usually borderline septic).mention euthanasia even when its a legitimate option and they then go get their shit together and ask friends family or loan companies for money....or take the dog to the charity and lose its uterus but get their pet back alive and well...

Veterinary is not a fun job that just involves dealing with puppies and kittens and saving sick animals. Working with owners with unrealistic expectations and budget constrictions is quite possibly the most stressful aspect of the job.
 
Levrier said:
Exactly MM - it shouldn’t however be given mid-whelping if a pup is stuck, which was the point I was making

Driving a bitch around in a car can also stimulate her to get on with things when whelping if we are swapping anecdotes 😄
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Oh yes I've done that. Puppy popped out halfway to the vets and landed in the door pocket of the car !
 
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