Breeding for breeding's sake?

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MizElz

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One thing that really pees me off in the horseworld is the amount of indiscriminate breeding that takes place. I'm not talking about the foals which are not registered - as many people here have stated in the past, there are plenty of registered foals which have awful conformation, movement and ability; likewise many with 'breeding unknown' have gone on to be superstars!

I have no issue with anyone breeding from their mare, if they are as certain as they can be that the foal has a solid future. We ourselves know nothing of Ellie's dam, although we do have the details of her sire - yet, if the risks of breeding had not been so great, we would love to have bred from her, simply because it would be so special to have her son or daughter to follow in her footsteps.

What gets me, however, are the number of adverts we see nowadays for unknown/average/poor mares that are in foal to unknown/average/poor stallions. I saw one today along the lines of:

15hh coloured cob mare, unbroken but good broodmare, 12 yrs old, in foal to Irish sports horse stallion. £950

Why breed this foal? Why put the mare - an unknown quantity herself - in foal in the first place, if the aim is just to sell her before it is born? What purpose will her foal serve? Ok, the foal may turn out nice enough - although from the poor quality black and white photo, the mare certainly didnt look anything special - but there again, it might not. As I said before, if she was someone's pet and they wanted to breed from her to carry on her line for their own purposes, regardless of how good she may or may not be, then fair enough. But it is pretty clear that she is just a baby machine, and there are far, far too many adverts just like this, in my opinion.

I don't often rant, but this kind of thing really annoys me, especially when so many people get upset about horses being sent to Potters. When they are bred as indiscriminately as this type of advert suggests, it is no wonder that the horse population in Britain is surplus to requirements.
 
Miss a common problem through out the whole of the world.. i do not know why people do it but it results in too many unwanted animals.. happens with dogs and cats and rabits too..

It is very annoying
Lou x
 
That would be me then, I have mares, and a stallion and I breed because I like having foals about the place.

Not.....

As long as there is money to be made there will be people who will breed for it surely and absolutely nothing is going to stop it.

Best hope for that mare is that someone who thinks like you buys her and actually DOES something with her. 950 for an unbroken 12 year old.....would you?
 
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Best hope for that mare is that someone who thinks like you buys her and actually DOES something with her. 950 for an unbroken 12 year old.....would you?

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Quite possibly!
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It isnt just the unknown horses that have this issue though....I know of someone, who although successful in her field, bred with a successful horse to another successful horse in a different field (both advanced level)....3 times.....and all 3 foals are completely psyco and pretty much of no use to anyone, because although talented, they are complete arseh0les to ride & to deal with on the ground. Stubborn doesnt come close....dangerous would be more suited....however, these 3 horses, and probably many more like them, are now circulating through the countries dealers.....

I think horse owners should have a licence, and even more so when they want to set about breeding.....

I would *love* to breed my mare...one day I might, but I can guarentee, whilst I am in control of my faculties, I will never part with one of my animals!!!
 
Maisy, that is a very good point. A great friend of mine bred his wonderful Grade A mare - who took him to both HOYS and Olympia - to Animo, and the result was a complete maniac. The horse was dangerous - an angel in the stable, yet a demon under saddle in every way. After years of trying to persevere with him - the horse had a phenomenal jump but just didnt want to show it - my friend gave in, and he was eventually sold to a dealer for less than the stud fee would have cost him. But....he then bred the mare back to Animo, in the hope that it was just a fluke! And unfortunately, it wasnt - the second foal, a filly, was even worse, and nearly killed him at the second show he took her two. She then nearly killed me, when he thought she might get on better with a lady rider - and she too was passed onto a local dealer. Point proven, really.
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Maisy, that is a very good point. A great friend of mine bred his wonderful Grade A mare - who took him to both HOYS and Olympia - to Animo, and the result was a complete maniac. The horse was dangerous - an angel in the stable, yet a demon under saddle in every way. After years of trying to persevere with him - the horse had a phenomenal jump but just didnt want to show it - my friend gave in, and he was eventually sold to a dealer for less than the stud fee would have cost him. But....he then bred the mare back to Animo, in the hope that it was just a fluke! And unfortunately, it wasnt - the second foal, a filly, was even worse, and nearly killed him at the second show he took her two. She then nearly killed me, when he thought she might get on better with a lady rider - and she too was passed onto a local dealer. Point proven, really.
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The point proven - to me anyway, - is that the owner didn't have any scruples at all and chose to pass on a dangerous animal to a dealer, who would in turn pass it on to somebody else, possibly inexperienced, without perhaps telling them the full story and so the circle goes on for that horse to have short term homes and probably umpteen visits to markets. Instead, the owner should have grown up to his responsibilities, both to the horse and towards other people and have had the horse put down so it couldn't be a danger to anyone else. How can he sleep at night knowing he let a horse like that loose on the public market?
 
Best not get me started on this one. I never go into Breeding Forum lest I upset every one of them on there.

The horse job is going to go arse up some time soon and it'll be a sorry life/end for a lot more than JM07 can help
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The point proven - to me anyway, - is that the owner didn't have any scruples at all and chose to pass on a dangerous animal to a dealer, who would in turn pass it on to somebody else, possibly inexperienced, without perhaps telling them the full story and so the circle goes on for that horse to have short term homes and probably umpteen visits to markets. Instead, the owner should have grown up to his responsibilities, both to the horse and towards other people and have had the horse put down so it couldn't be a danger to anyone else. How can he sleep at night knowing he let a horse like that loose on the public market?

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I dont think it was a case of having no scruples - I think, knowing him as I do, it was more a case that he truly believed the horses would go well for someone; I think he couldnt get past the fact that with such wonderful bloodlines, and such a nice start to life, they could still turn out to be useless......he offered to give me the filly for nothing, if I had been able to get on with her, so money was not his motivation. I truly think he was gutted that he'd bred two awful foals
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(Incidentally, the third foal, by a different, less prolific sire, is already doing wonderful things, and following in the footsteps of her dam).
But.....you say he should have 'grown up to his responsibilities' - and I agree, he is the biggest kid I know, in spite of being nearly forty! Unfortunately, this immaturity has been his downfall in several aspects of life, but I love him to bits, even so!

Worth mentioning that the first foal - the gelding - was sold on from the dealers' yard to a lady who did some dressage with him, and once he was reassured that there were no jumps around, he calmed down a bit! I don't know what happened to the filly though
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We bred our mare, with the plan that her foal would be a replacement happy hacker for my lad when he came to retire (he will be 18 when the youngster is three). We bred her to a Sec D as we wanted a stocky type, able to live out and hopefully not to be a lunatic. We've got a super friendly filly, now a yearling, lovely nature, never reared or bit, a livewire though!

If I can't ride her (I have a knee problem which since the op to improve it, has become much worse) we will have to make a decision about her, either to sell or loan. We have our own land and could keep her for life, but I'd rather she was ridden and had fun and then retired with us!
 
How many of the foals that are churned out by Thoroughbred studs every year actually go on to have a bright future? I think you'll find not many and yet this goes on and seems acceptable to most people but it's a small percentage that ever make it as a racehorse or riding horse for that matter.
 
I hate this too. The number of horses and foals I see cramped into small fields, some of them not in particulary good condition, makes me mad. Where are these foals going to go once they are old enough to be sold? I think you should only breed from a horse if you can guarantee the foal will have a home for life with you if you cant sell it.
 
What I can't understand either is people like a woman on my old yard who bred from a mare that was pretty well unrideable because of its behavioual issues. It used to try and scrape the rider off on the school walls! Surely if the mare herself didn't have a good temperament the foal could have turned out just the same?
 
I went to a local horse sale recently and I was quite shocked by the prices that cob yearlings were making. I now do not understand why people breed 'competion' horses which are worth a lot less than a very average cobby type youngster - they'll make nice happy hackers.

If you are in it for the money don't breed sport horses - unless it is very special.
 
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