Breeding from a 2yo

volatis

volatis

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I am sure this has been discussed many times so apologies in advance.

I have never considered covering my 2yo fillies, always wait till they are 3 at least. But I was reading an interesting article in the Zangershide magazine yesterday and the breeder they were interviewing was talking about their routine of covering the 2yos, backing them at 3 post weaning and competing them till they are 7 or 8.

Is it really the norm in European warmblood breeding to cover at 2? Has anyone done any studies on the pros and cons. My instinct is still that when a filly is growing herself she cant produce a foal without setting her own development back. But I am just being a bit soft, and a well grown filly with the right feeding can produce a foal at 3 with no ill effects?
 
I don't cover my fillies (native ponies) until they are 3yrs as I like to see them grown into themselves first. I have bought mares that have had foals at 3yrs. one was slow to mature (Welsh B) while the other seemed to have no ill effects (Welsh A).

I would have thought this was even more important for some horse breeds that mature late?

Welham Stud
 
It's not the norm, but I don't have a big problem with it. If you are small and have the time and funds to care for her, with sufficient feed for her needs (she's growing herself as well as an embryo), then it should all work out OK.

It would happen in the wild.
 
i have never bred nor do i plan to, but i thought with warmbloods generally being slow maturers anyway it wouldn't be in their best interests to breed from them so young.
TB's on the other hand being fast maturing maybe.
 
We did it once (my husband's idea) and the mare never grew to her full size because of it I'm certain.
She was kept in all winter with daily turn out, hard feed and ad lib haylage plus vit supplements, so it had to be caused by the drain on such a young body I reckon.
I think three is the safest age to start, as before that they are busy growing themselves without the added strain on them of a foal.
I do wonder though how mature the 2 year old fillies are compared to some stock, as warmbloods are supposed to mature much earlier aren't they?
 
I was thinking about this the other day as I was looking through the Renkum stud sale catalogue, as a lot of their mares had been bred at 2yrs old.

It's not something I would do but most do seem to cope fine...
 
We bought a mare in foal at 2 and with hindsight she was too immature. She struggled to foal and then it really knocked her back, so much so that we did very little with her even as a 4 year old to give her time to grow herself. In this case we gained nothing timewise getting her into competition.
However we have just put a very well grown 2 year old in foal that will be due end of June 2009 rightly or wrongly so we will see how she copes. She has qualified for the Futurity Championship Show so far, but will not be going as I think it will be too much for her. Link to her pics
http://michaelgarton.jalbum.net/BEF_Futu...nuation-12.html
http://michaelgarton.jalbum.net/BEF_Futu...inuation-1.html
http://michaelgarton.jalbum.net/BEF_Futu...inuation-6.html
 
I have bred one mare as a 2 year old. She had a stunning foal and no ill effects from it. I really think it depends on the mare. I have some filly who at 2 are very immature and others that I would consider putting in foal.

Greymares, you filly is lovely, shame she is not going to the final, but I understand why. If my broodmare was in foal, I don't think I would be taking her either.
 
Greymares, thats a lovely filly, no wonder she qualified for Addington.

For the first time ever I have a very strong mature filly that i 'might' consider covering next year. Normally I dont even consider it till they are 3, but she is so forward even now, and having read the article, has just put the thought in the back of mind.
Will see how she looks next year, and keep doing my research in the meantime
 
It really does depend on the mare, doesn't it. Roger's parents initially bred from their 2 yr olds - his mother's Swiss and it is usual over there. They did stop doing this though - 3yrs being the youngest and longer in some cases - but then they did stand 2 old fashioned Hannoverian dressage stallions whose offspring tended to mature late. The HIS sires standing there they didn't tend to use much themselves.

I'm waiting on seeing with Heidi even as a 3yr old. She hasn't matured physically as much as I thought she would this year - her mother was still growing at 6 as was her first foal. If I had a mature enough 2yr old I wouldn't see any problem in it.
 
I have never even considered it, as I was always told it can seriously stunt their growth and all the mares i've bred have ended up a bit too small for me anyway. i needed that extra inch or two, if at all possible.
I was told it is a good way of keeping ponies under height, or producing good little horses for the junior eventing market, fwiw.
of course, unless you had two clones or identical twin fillies, it's impossible to prove whether it does really stunt their growth or not...
i know someone who bred from a 2 yr old and it had big problems foaling and ended up wth pelvis problems iirc. i don't know if its immaturity might have been a contributory factor.
 
I dont think outward appearances are what you should judge on. I would not put a 2yo in foal, yes it may happen in the wild but how many actually make it to foaling, most loose it. Lets face it some girls could get pregnate at 11, because outwardly they are mature enough does not mean mentally & internally they are. I feel really sorry for these horses, they have years of either being in work or producing foals & we humans cant give them one more year just to be a horse.
 
Not something I would choose to do, in anycase, even if I would, I couldn't, PREs cannot be put forward for grading until they are 3, although I am sure there are people who take the risk of failure and you do see pregnant mares put forward for grading, although I have never seen a 3yo put forward in those circumstances, this does not mean it does not happen however.

I too have heard that it stunts the mare's growth if she is put in foal too early.
 
Well I have only ever come across a handful of 3yo foalers in the TB world and whils tno problems were had foaling, the mares struggled to get to grips with WTF had suddenly come into the world - one was so agressive that she actually tried to kill her foal, it was taken off her in the nick of time and TMK she's not been allowed to raise one since, as she goes for them all!! I have also worked for a very well known WB breeder and dressage person in this country and whilst there a 2yo filly was bred to Pro-set - though she did not concieve. The aim for her was to try and stop her growth - she was 17hh ATT.
 
totally agree with magic104's post.
_SN_, i've had a 16 yr old maiden mare (eventer up till then) struggle to get to grips with WTF had suddenly come into her world immediately after foaling, so it's not necessarily youth-related.
 
Oh I know it can happen to any mare, but IME the younger ones do tend to struggle a bit more with it - though obviously some are born to be maternal. Just like people I guess - I was only born to be maternal towards foals and puppies, which is why I have been around so many foaling mares I guess....
 
I'd not thought about the Tb industry actually. Funny how it is far more common in Europe with warmbloods and so rare in racing. But then of course most 2 and 3yos should be on the racetrack and not in the materity ward.
Sounds like the general opinion is what I orginally felt, not to risk it.

Incidentaly bosses 14yo maiden mare totally paniced this year when a wriggling chestnut thing appeared. Took all night to get her any where near him. Luckily she's now a super mum but I could have throttled the stupid mare!
 
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