Breeding from bad tempered horses

Kenzo

Kenzo

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Just out of interest and I'm sure the question has been asked several times before but must of missed the posts.

Would you breed from a vicious or hormonal mare?

Do you believe that you can pass a bad temperament down? or is it a load of rubbish...after all we all buy horses and not know the parentage/breeding etc...or are those grumpy personalities bred down?

Has anybody actually done this and suffered with the consequences...either by putting themselves in danger, having difficulty weaning/handling the foal, ending up with a difficult foal with a bad temperament?

Did you consult your vet to see what their views were?

Has putting your mare in foal at all changed her temperament for the better?

Before anyone tells me...no I have not got mare that I'm thinking of putting in foal, nor buying any youngster, I'm just interested in your views about this.
 
The stallion 'Demonstrator' is placid, lovely to handle, not agreesive and very quiet.. But one hell of a lot of his youngstock have serious attitude problems..

I know of a couple of horrible tempered mares who produces sweethearts!

I think its pot luck.. Im sure it is possible to pass tempers on (More along the line of hormone levels than anything else..

Its a chance you take.

Lou x
 
We bought an SJ mare 3 years ago who was a bad tempered b*gger. She turned out to be in foal - and, yes, she was vetted (luckily I didn't notice her shape some months before she actually gave birth). The filly, who's 2 now, is the sweetest, most even tempered thing, you can do anything around her. So yeah, pot luck, or upbringing? Hmm, nature or nuture?
 
I once offered a breeder an hanovarian x out of medoc to breed from to see if it would rectify her issues of being ridden, his words were " i wouldnt breed from a b1tch it only creates another"
 
My friend has put her bad tempered mare into foal (due in 4 months) even though the vet advised not too, she's a really grumpy mare that tries to bite a kick! She has got even worse since the pregnacy. Shes a welsh cob. The stallion they chose was absolutly beautiful with a temperment to match, so they are hoping the baby will b more like him!!!
They couldn't ride the mare any more so i think they thought putting her in foal was best idea!
 
I dont think horses with either a bad temperament or a significant confirmational fault (ie one that compromises soundness or health significantly) should be bred from. It might be lucky and turn out ok, but if not the horse is the one that pays the price for the gamble. Breeding is a gamble enough without loading the dice against success.
 
I might take a chance, providing the mare had good conformation and proven results! I had a lovely mare who my sister bred from. Both parents were exeptionally placid and kind-natured. What came out was a bloomin' wild thing!! Time will tell if he calms down or not.
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I can only go by personal experience and I have to admit it does colour my view about the 'viability' of the offspring!

The ones that stick out because of temperament problems are -

Henbit's, I wouldn't give room to at all; I'm sure there must be nice ones somewhere but all five that I have known or dealt with have been evil, nasty creatures that seem intent on killing you if at all possible. Three, I have no idea of their dams but the others were out of very kind genuine mares and all seemed to have horns at birth and never improved!
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I've known three Environmental Friend's and mental just about sums them up, again, two of those out of the above kind mares so it must count for something!
All of the Overbury's, Fairlyn Gemini, Bazaars Texas, Shahrastani, Double Eclipse, Embla Statesman, Embla Alfred and others have all been doddles. The same goes for One More Tiger babies, very kind and laid back.

So, in answer to your question, yes, I think nurturing has something to do with it, a lot in fact, but there are the other exceptions which prove however well you try to bring something up as kind and mannerly, their 'bad' genes will out.
I don't 'do' nasty horses for myself; it was different when working, you had to work with what came along but now, from choice, there is no need for them as there are plenty of nice ones about; I certainly wouldn't breed from anything with an 'iffy' temperament, whatever sex it was.
 
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My friend has put her bad tempered mare into foal (due in 4 months) even though the vet advised not too, she's a really grumpy mare that tries to bite a kick! She has got even worse since the pregnacy. Shes a welsh cob. The stallion they chose was absolutly beautiful with a temperment to match, so they are hoping the baby will b more like him!!!
They couldn't ride the mare any more so i think they thought putting her in foal was best idea!

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this kind of attitude really worries me. 'we can't ride it so let's stick it in foal'
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when a lot of breeders strive to better their stock AND there are far too many mediocre horses that are surplus to requirements it amazes me that people are breeding animals like this.

Anyway - deep breath, back on subject. I have listened to a lot of people who say that the stallion determines the personality of the foal, not the mare. Personally (and of course this is opinion only) I think that is a load of crap.

Genetically the mare gives 50% of her genes to the foal - it is pot luck and down to nature as to which they are. (hence why it is better to use a stallion that complements the mare, rather than one that is a polar opposite, else you could end up with all the bad points and none of the good ones).

I have a mare I have bred to the same stallion and I have got two totally different horses. In temperament and in looks. So it is, in some part, guess work. Because of this, it is in a breeder's best interest to maximise the probablility of a good output - therefore it makes no sense at all to use a bad tempered, stroppy or vicious mare. Or stallion.

Obviously this is tempered with the horse's performance, conformation etc. But when you breed a foal I think you have some responsibility for where it ends up. A vicious, stroppy horse in the wrong hands can only end in one outcome.
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ETA - good god, not sure if that makes sense or not - bit of a waffle - sorry - lol
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Henbit's, I wouldn't give room to at all; I'm sure there must be nice ones somewhere but all five that I have known or dealt with have been evil, nasty creatures that seem intent on killing you if at all possible.

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Charlie is By Henbit and apart from a bit of typical Dizzy TB behavior he is one of the sweetest horses I have met. He loves his Kisses and Cuddles!
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I would be very hesitant to breed from a bad tempered mare however good the temperement of the stallion. The mare is the foal's role model for 6 months and I have seen foals copying their mother's nasty behaviour. It's horrible to see foals coming at you with their teeth
 
Not to mention the recent story about the groom that was killed by a mare that should never have been bred from... hormones can send a mare two ways and is she is prone to being moody anyway, why would you want 11 months of hell?!
 
An interesting one. Our mare is grumpy in the stable and pretty opinionated but is the easiest horse to take to shows and compete. She's taken a novice rider to a high level in western and will have a try at anything. She's also got tremendous stamina and courage, having bounced back from a serious respiratory infection two years ago
I am planning to breed from her in a year or so, but will choose the stallion EXTREMELY carefully - we're already watching one or two on the show circuit that look to have a good temperament and produce trainable youngsters.
I have no intention of sending her away to foal anywhere and would be very careful who was allowed near her as I expect she will be pretty foal proud.
To my mind, her good characteristics outweigh the bad ones, and in the right circumstances are worth taking that extra bit of care to produce a foal that could be as good as her or better.
 
it rubbish i have a mare who can be aright c*w to anyone that steps one foot near her part from me but has produced the most loving sweet colt u could have
 
All the Demonstrator babies I've known have been straightforward, quiet and if anything a bit thick! (which can be a good thing!)
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My Demonstrator mare is a total dream. Carried ehr amateur rider round SJ tracks, then they switched to dressage, she bred two foals from her before I got her. And she is currently the patron saint of all my mares, and her foals have all been full of character but not a nasty bone in their bodies.

I would never take the risk of breeding from a nasty mare. As a previous poster said, they influence the foal in many ways during the first 4 months of its life. Why would you risk it?
 
I think its a nature thing. We got two (esentially rescue) ponies apparently 4 months old. we put them in the field with my 18yo mare who had previously had foals and she adopted them, literally (and she loved it) one turned out to be completely bomb proof like my mare and good to the bone. The other one was not bad but very sharp and skitty.
I think its a bit like humans I have my dads temper but my mums patience!
 
hrm tricky one. Cant say whether its nature or nurture- probably a good mixture of both as with most things.

I know of a really sweet and honest mare with not a bad bone in her, but her colt (well now a one yr old gelding) is an absolute monster (i believe through not having anything done with him, no groundwork, handling, leading training etc and not much turnout)

On the other hand i stayed at a place in Ireland and they bred from a mean mare to try and make her a bit sweeter. She was more of a cow than ever. Foal seemed sweet enough, but was only a couple of months old so hard to tell yet i guess.
 
Scientifically speaking, it is mares who imprint their foals, so bad behaviour/nastiness could certainly be learned. From my own experience, I have seen two mares produce foals who had exactly the same natures of themselves, in one case silly and hysterical, in the other bolshy and in your face. These were accidental breedings and it is quite possible that both were covered by the same stallion. I'm not sure about inherited natures, but a friend had a gelding which was notoriously unpredictable and he said the horse was out of bad blood. Personally I am absolutely against breeding just because you have a mare and want a cutsie little foal. No babies of any species should just be produced willy nilly.
 
i think foals take alot from mum-not only genetic but also learned behaviour.
personally i wouldnt breed from anything very bad tempered/unridable due to nastiness/conformation/genetic related unsoundnesss.
the mare has to be breed worthy and the risk is a mini-me foal- if the mare is conformationally/genetically or tempermentally unsound the foal is at increased risk of being the same.
i also do not like the 'cant ride it, lets breed it' mentality UNLESS the mare is breed worthy!
why breed from rubbish when there are so many nice horses out there already!
if the mare is amazingly outstanding and a 'professionals' ride, the chances are the foal would be worth so much they would use a sorrogate mare for foal anyway so at least it wont have any nasty learned behaviours.
 
My mare is very territorial about the space around her and will 'threaten' to bite and kick...swings her teeth and legs about but never makes contact. Ridden she is a dream, to and from the field an angel, at shows she is so easy I hardly know I have her. Her confirmation is excellent and I wouldnt hesitate to breed from her....no horse is faultless and all the plusses outweigh the negatives in my opinion.

People need to realise that a lot of mares dont like their space to be invaded and they communicate with their expressions much more than geldings do.....a few scowls doesnt make a bad tempered horse.
 
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