Breeds for the Average Rider

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Orangehorse

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Going on from the other post about the "average" rider - so where are the nice, friendly, co-operative horses that are suitable for the average rider?

I am aware that there are angels in all breeds, but generally speaking:

TB - strong, sharp, fast, brave, often "I'll do it if I have to" - who is the leader here?
Cobs - strong, crafty, know their own strength, sometimes a bit thick in the head as well
as the body. Often roughly treated as youngesters which can make them fearful.
Ponies - intelligent and can weigh up the rider straight away.
Warmblood/dressage - STRONG in body and mind (some bloodlines seem to be very, very late in maturing and do stupid things)
Native/TB X - often good, but can have the worst of both parents.
Arabs - often misunderstood and can be panicky.

So if your average rider came and asked what breed they should loof for, what would you say?
There seems to be such an emphasis on sport horse breeding, surely there is a niche for a type of level headed horse that is co-operative and suitable for a family mount.
(Maybe why I have an American breed).
 
We have a french trotter x and he's the best horse ever! You could stick a complete beginner or an advanced rider on him and they'd both have a great time! Same goes for the appyxdraught we had (r.i.p Blob) he was amazing.
 
Personally I think its less about generalising breeds and focusing on individual horses. I've known very quiet TBs and WBs suitable for novices. And most of the time the horse is only what the rider makes them, so they will only keep out of trouble as long as they have a good instructor.

If someone asked me, there are a few Irish horse dealers down my way I would point people in the direction of. No experience personally, but people seem to be happy with the horses and they all seem pretty reliable, good allrounders etc.
 
I will say again that the other thread is about novice riders. When did just about being able to walk, trot, canter in the school pass for average? That is not average. It might be your idea of average if you have never exposed yourself to a world outside the RS and a bit of happy hacking but it really, really isn't.

If we're going to discuss, could we please at least accept that we are talking about novices or at best novice to average?
 
One of our natives. I have a Welsh Section d and a Connemara and both are fantastic. They have lovely temperaments and like any horse/pony can have their silly days but on the whole they are safe, fun and a joy to own. It all depends of course on who backed and brought on in the first place but I would always go for a native now and I have had quite a few different breeds in the past.
 
jesstickle said:
I will say again that the other thread is about novice riders. When did just about being able to walk, trot, canter in the school pass for average? That is not average. It might be your idea of average if you have never exposed yourself to a world outside the RS and a bit of happy hacking but it really, really isn't.
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I agree with this. After two years of private lessons at a riding school I "thought" I was a competent rider. I then bought a nice safe Irish Draught who very soon scared me to death out hacking - not because he bucked or reared but because he was spooky (probably picking up on my experience) and could have me off in a jiffy. I soon refused to ride him and my daughter took him on. I rode her TB who gave me back some (though not all) my confidence. Now you would never have thought a TB could be a first horse for a novice but he was.

My daughter's Connemara is the sharpest, strongest horse we have ever met. Her other pony was a Welsh X and absolutely lovely.

Now I'm older and wiser I would never look at one breed in particular.
 
I would say that unless you are looking at competing seriously in a particular sphere then forget the breeding and look for a good honest sensible horse that does the job you want.

Too much focus on breeding/colour/image gets a lot of novice and/or new owners into trouble.

I'm a first time owner straight from a riding school and I have a warmblood, not because I was looking for one, but because I found one with an honest temprement that I thought I could work with. She felt more sensible than the cobxTB we tried and the shire x and the irish type we nearly bought.
 
Oh dear. I was the one who posted about how there are too many horses out there that are not suitable for the average rider. The average rider that I described owned and cared for their own horse, could ride simple dressage and had lessons. Everyone I knew back when my horses were in work had regular lessons. Even the more advanced riders. So I guess I was misunderstood.

I agree that it should be on a horse to horse basis but there can be some generalisations but they cannot be taken for granted.

For example, Highland Ponies are supposed to be gentle ponies that can be used for things like Riding For The Disabled. Kippen (my Highland Pony) forgot to read the breed description. He is opinionated, keen, strong and won't tolerate idiots. If he thinks you are a moron, he won't do anything for you. I love him. He also has a lot of fans.
 
Forget breeding and type to an extent.

It's all about correct handling, history and mileage, followed by carrying on correct handling after.
 
I agree that you need to look at the individual rather than the breed as a whole, I've known some laid back tb's and some native ponies that I wouldn't let a novice near!

On the whole though I think that there is a trend for the cold blooded types to be quieter and less temperamental than those with arab/tb blood, natives can be very laid back or be over filled with native pony cunning, so depends entirely on temperament.

If I was asked by a novice which breed to pick I'd tend to suggest something that will do the job that they want, is easy to do (a weight dropping tb might not be the best first horse) and has a good temperament above all else.
 
Breed has nothing to do with, i wouldn't advise a any rider to buy a specific breed unless they wanted to do something specific like m and m classes.

There are hot heads and calm horses in every breed so how can anybody advise a novice owner to buy a specific breed.

BTW i would class an average rider as someone who is at a level where their abilities allow them to do a medium dressage test or jump round a course of 1.10 ish without hassle (not that they are riding at this level just that they could do it if they wanted!)
 
Wheels said:
BTW i would class an average rider as someone who is at a level where their abilities allow them to do a medium dressage test or jump round a course of 1.10 ish without hassle (not that they are riding at this level just that they could do it if they wanted!)
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Phew, someone who agrees on my definition. This is me. I am average. I know I am as half the people I know are better than me and half worse.
 
jesstickle said:
I will say again that the other thread is about novice riders. When did just about being able to walk, trot, canter in the school pass for average? That is not average. It might be your idea of average if you have never exposed yourself to a world outside the RS and a bit of happy hacking but it really, really isn't.

If we're going to discuss, could we please at least accept that we are talking about novices or at best novice to average?
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.

JessTickle raises an interesting point - what is the "average" rider? H&H did a survey in the UK back in 2011 asking what the majority of horse owners did in terms of activities and competitive level - can't remember the detail but I do seem to recall that, as you would intuitively expect, the majority of respondents were one horse, amateur owners who competed at riding club level - As expected when surveying only H&H readers there was a marked skew towards those who hunt, however I also seem to remember that dressage was very popular as a discipline. Therefore would this (limited) empirical evidence suggest that this riding club level competitor be typical of an "average" rider, at least amongst H&H readers in the UK, who may or may not be representative of any wider group, geo/demo graphically speaking? (my hypothesis is that there are a number of equestrian disciplines/activities which H&H rarely covers, and therefore participants in these activities may not read H&H and/or take part in the survey).
 
Oh dear, my cob is neither strong nor crafty. He is intelligent and kind to his rider.
It's temperament not breed, so I would day to a novice to have lots of lessons on a variety of horses and find out shatter they liked.
 
Wheels said:
BTW i would class an average rider as someone who is at a level where their abilities allow them to do a medium dressage test or jump round a course of 1.10 ish without hassle (not that they are riding at this level just that they could do it if they wanted!)
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I think I'd probably place the bar a little lower, probably jumping a course of around 3ft on a straight forward horse and riding a novice test competitively but being able to do higher level things such as shoulder in etc in a schooling environment. Basically someone who would be at the top end of RC stuff and the bottom end of affiliated. Someone who is above BHS stage two level.

I think above that you are looking mainly at people who are either fairly serious amateur competitors or who work with horses in some way.

I think the numbers of people at the lower levels mean average cannot be much higher. There are vast numbers of horse owners who are happy hackers or who compete at prelim dressage or 2ft6 sj and no higher which must pull the average down.
 
marestare said:
.

JessTickle raises an interesting point - what is the "average" rider? H&H did a survey in the UK back in 2011 asking what the majority of horse owners did in terms of activities and competitive level - can't remember the detail but I do seem to recall that, as you would intuitively expect, the majority of respondents were one horse, amateur owners who competed at riding club level - As expected when surveying only H&H readers there was a marked skew towards those who hunt, however I also seem to remember that dressage was very popular as a discipline. Therefore would this (limited) empirical evidence suggest that this riding club level competitor be typical of an "average" rider, at least amongst H&H readers in the UK, who may or may not be representative of any wider group, geo/demo graphically speaking? (my hypothesis is that there are a number of equestrian disciplines/activities which H&H rarely covers, and therefore participants in these activities may not read H&H and/or take part in the survey).
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But this thread is about riders of average ability, not about what the majority of riders do, as Wheels said above, a rider of average ability should be capable of riding a dressage test and jumping a couse of reasonable fences should they choose to


Would just like to add that IMO a rider of average ability should be able to manage most horses in most situations, ie. on the roads, in open country in company, etc.
 
Kat said:
I would say that unless you are looking at competing seriously in a particular sphere then forget the breeding and look for a good honest sensible horse that does the job you want.

Too much focus on breeding/colour/image gets a lot of novice and/or new owners into trouble.
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absolutely spot on:)
 
Kat said:
I think I'd probably place the bar a little lower, probably jumping a course of around 3ft on a straight forward horse and riding a novice test competitively but being able to do higher level things such as shoulder in etc in a schooling environment. Basically someone who would be at the top end of RC stuff and the bottom end of affiliated. Someone who is above BHS stage two level.

I think above that you are looking mainly at people who are either fairly serious amateur competitors or who work with horses in some way.

I think the numbers of people at the lower levels mean average cannot be much higher. There are vast numbers of horse owners who are happy hackers or who compete at prelim dressage or 2ft6 sj and no higher which must pull the average down.
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I think the top end of RC stuff puts you quite comfortably where wheels said. Senior RC jumping at the finals opens at 1.10 in the first round :confused:
 
The average rider in my heavily horsey area, is most certainly, sadly so, not able to do a med test nor just over 1m! The average dressage ability is prelim going I'm novice, and 2'6 classes are packed out.
There certainly are riders of this higher ability, but perhaps our area lacks horsepower?
 
marmalade76 said:
But this thread is about riders of average ability, not about what the majority of riders do, as Wheels said above, a rider of average ability should be capable of riding a dressage test and jumping a couse of reasonable fences should they choose to


Would just like to add that IMO a rider of average ability should be able to manage most horses in most situations, ie. on the roads, in open country in company, etc.
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Thank you! You are the voice of sense.

I have been riding for nearly 30 years. I am more than capable of doing a medium dressage test and jumping 1m20
I have a very talented TB
However, I only enjoy happy hacking, sponsored rides, low level hunter trials and occasional cubbing. At best 98% of the time I am a happy hacker.
This does not make me a novice.
It means that I am getting old and I have 3 children to consider. My priorities have changed. :rolleyes:
 
Wheels said:
BTW i would class an average rider as someone who is at a level where their abilities allow them to do a medium dressage test or jump round a course of 1.10 ish without hassle (not that they are riding at this level just that they could do it if they wanted!)
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I may as well go back to RS then :cool: I've never jumped a course over 90 or ridden above novice. I don't suppose I'd know where to start if someone shoved me in an arena to do either. I guess I find that definition a bit blinkered. I know people who will happily pop round either on a 17,2 hunter schooled by someone else, but would be lost training their own horse, or doing other disciplines.

kippen64 said:
For example, Highland Ponies are supposed to be gentle ponies that can be used for things like Riding For The Disabled. Kippen (my Highland Pony) forgot to read the breed description. He is opinionated, keen, strong and won't tolerate idiots. If he thinks you are a moron, he won't do anything for you. I love him. He also has a lot of fans.
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This is exactly where breed stereotypes fall down.

FWIW, the stereotypes of highlands I know all say they're strong, stubborn and need really firm handling. But that's a stereotype that kicks around the breeders and owners I know over here. Personally I don't find either of mine like that - other than some leading issues a year or two ago, I generally find F & D very keen to please. I xc F in a plastic french link and he is never strong. If he's going to be a pig, he will drop his shoulder like a pony or spin or bounce around and snort like an arab. He's completely different in personality to Darach, to other highlands I've ridder, to Kippen, etc. There's a lot of variety even within fairly in bred animals (closed studs etc) in both personality and type - and that's before you start generalising about x-breeds :eek:

Anyone who buys a pony on the strength of a stereotype is a fool.
 
jesstickle said:
Phew, someone who agrees on my definition. This is me. I am average. I know I am as half the people I know are better than me and half worse.
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You look like a good rider to me. Average isn't a particularly useful description, amateur/professional is a a clearer distinction although even within that there is a grey area and a whole range of riding abilities.

To me, anyone with an independent seat, light hands, feel for horses and able to ride a wide range of types is a good rider. Pros are exceptional, that is why they've made it their careers! Also consequentially they get even better through the strength, fitness and practice of riding eight horses a day and regular competition.

Average/amateur/one-horse-owner riders do tend to want and need more all round horses than professionals, less quirky/psychotic horses than pros, less effort to ride horses than pros and something to enjoy not just capable of doing a single job. Its not really a breed thing, different breeds suit different tastes and personalities. Good old native x tb makes for a great, smart all round type IMO.
 
I've ridden two dressage tests in my life, both as part of little one day events. I have no idea what tests they were, can't remember. The thought of jumping over 2'6" scares the pants off me. Therefore I must be below average.

Best get rid of my potty ex-racer and unbroken youngster then, I case I ruin them. :(

I'll just stick to my quiet, sensible, confidence giving TB, who I bought as a dangerous to handle just backed five year old. I needed a bit of a confidence boost after getting thoroughly planted and breaking my back, and he did it (the confidence-not the planting!).

Not typical, but then, what is? My friend has a sweet, sensible TB mare (ex-racer) who holds weight and has great feet. :)
 
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I think it gets even more complicated than specific breeds with regard to personality/temperament, but I do find the actual breeding can be an indicator there are "family traits" that do seem to follow through bloodlines. Although I admit I tend to just judge on the individual rather than the type for temperament.

It also depends what the average rider wants to do, some breeds are obviously recognized as being more suitable for specific but different jobs. As far as all rounders go if this is what the average rider wants (can do everything to at least good PC level) then I feel any breed can do it.
 
Orangehorse said:
generally speaking:

TB - strong, sharp, fast, brave, often "I'll do it if I have to" - who is the leader here?
Cobs - strong, crafty, know their own strength, sometimes a bit thick in the head as well
as the body. Often roughly treated as youngesters which can make them fearful.
Ponies - intelligent and can weigh up the rider straight away.
Warmblood/dressage - STRONG in body and mind (some bloodlines seem to be very, very late in maturing and do stupid things)
Native/TB X - often good, but can have the worst of both parents.
Arabs - often misunderstood and can be panicky.
Click to expand...

Horses are individuals. This type of stereotyping/pigeon holing them is an absolute nonsense...
 
The Gelders Paard and Groninger are perfect breeds for the average rider. Cool, calm and collected. They can pop a jump, do some dressage and stay calm outside.

But mainly it's about how a horse has been handled as a foal/youngster.
 
I had a 17h TB for my first horse... was he a novices horse, no. Was he suitable for me as a novice, yes! He was the right horse for me, and I knew as soon as I got on him he was the right one.
 
JFTD said:
Anyone who buys a pony on the strength of a stereotype is a fool.
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This exactly.

I didn't buy a breed . . . or a type . . . I bought an individual horse. I know plenty of sharp, spooky cobs . . . laid back TBs, sensible arabs, nightmare IDs . . . just as I know plenty of horses and ponies who are true to type. Breeds certainly DO give parameters of type, temperament, behaviour . . . but horses are also individuals, just like us . . . products of background/upbringing, genes, environment, etc.

So, in short, I don't think there's any such thing as a breed/type suitable for a novice/average rider . . . except perhaps a rocking horse.

P
 
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