Breyer - model/toy horses, real horses and cruelty

[ester]

The abuse of Arabs is well known and scandalous, but surely, the show organisers should police this more effectively in order to make it undesirable and pointless, just like the dog showing world which still encourages dogs to be bred with deformities.
I don't think Breyer are the bad guys here. They are showing a romantic image of an Arab, not dissimilar to their Gypsy Vanner model with its tail held at an impossibly high angle. Anyone who owns a heavy weight traditional cob will know that the weight of it's tail makes that physically impossible. Disney animals are romanticized and idealized to make them more appealing to children in much the same way. Much art is not meant to be a realistic interpretation and to ban it is a step too far.

Arabs? I can't see any posts on arabs?

 

[Desert_rider]

Apparently some people use the tail braces on Arabs too, to get an even higher tail carriage for the show ring. I also read that some quarter horses have their tails cut too, but to make it so that they have the preferred low tail carriage of the breed, leaving them unable to swish the flies away. Not to mention the extremely cruel methods used to get the walking horses to perform the 'big lick. Humans have a lot to answer for.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Arabs? I can't see any posts on arabs?

My mistake. It happens to Arab horses too and I associate Faracat with an interest in Arabs. Should have looked at the horses head and not just the tail in the picture.,

 

[TPO]

All sorts of inhumane practices happen behind the scenes to produce winning show horses.

Arabs seem to be the main breed who have to suffer sensory deprivation. This is so when they come out of the dark to lights, noise, sights and atmosphere they are "on their toes" and show off "better" with higher tail, head and elevated paces. You'll also find arab crowds tend to flap flags and loudly rustle bags etc to get a reaction.

QH in the pleasure circuit have had their heads held up trussed to a rafter. This, understandably, exhausts the muscles and ta-dah a nice low head carriage...

QH pleasure horses also have tails nicked, pepper and numbing agents applied so that they are "still". If you watch the US pleasure horses classes they all look lame and like they are rolling peanuts along the ground.

Cleve Wells was (is?) a famous pleasure horse trainer and there was an expose on him (remember Fugly Horse of the Day Blog?) when I client turned up unexpectedly and saw what was being done to her, and other, horses. I think a tongue had to be sewn back on...

The soring of TWH along with the stacked shoes and weighted chains.

It's barbaric, but you know, it's a pretty model...

 

[ester]

It and all the other breed abominations does seem to show well how people can just think it is normal/what is done and not question it. Then you get the odd one who after years of involvement seems to realise what it is and become it's biggest advocate for change.
At least then when others pop up with the 'you just don't know anything about it line' they can counter that they really really do.
One of the big anti big lick fb pages a while back was run by someone who had been involved, also as photographer for years. Thankfully the big lick shows certainly seem to be getting much much less attendance than they used to.
Saddlebred people often like to compare themselves favourably in comparison, while having concerningly similar packages on their horses hooves too.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I think that it's appropriate to post some of the Arab Horse Society showing rules. These only apply to shows in the UK of course.

15. TRIMMING AND CLIPPING. Pure Bred Arabians - Tactile hair must not be removed by any
means. Eyelashes and tactile hair must be left uncut. Removal of hair from inside the ear is
forbidden. No coloured products are permitted on hooves.
All exhibits - No alteration to the natural colour of the coat or skin is permitted.
The use of oils and clear make-up on horses exhibiting in the show ring must be kept to a
minimum. A judge may disqualify a horse, who in their opinion is wearing excessive make-up and /or
oils.
16. CRUELTY. Excessive whipping, use of electric shock devices or infliction of pain by any means
is forbidden in all parts of the showground, or stable areas, at all times.
At the discretion of the judge horses that show fear of their handlers may be asked to leave
the ring.
17. OUTSIDE ASSISTANCE. Attempting to influence the behaviour of exhibits in the ring is
forbidden.
Exhibits are not to be excessively stirred up. Horses must remain calmly in the collecting ring
with a maximum of one handler/rider and one groom until they enter the ring. No devices, artificial
gadgets or loud noises shall be used to excite horses. This rule also applies to persons on the outside
of the ring or collecting ring. Exhibits which are excessively excited may be asked to leave the ring or
collecting ring and be disqualified from their class.
18. INTERFERENCE. Exhibitors will not encourage their horses or ponies in any sort of dangerous
behaviour. They will not interfere with another competitor’s horse or its performance. The judge is
empowered to order any exhibit to be disqualified if he considers that the exhibit or handler has
breached the rule.
19. BEHAVIOUR
a. Any horse behaving in a dangerous manner which could threaten the safety of other
competitors or spectators may be asked to leave.
b. Unruly horses may be ordered to withdraw at the judge’s discretion.
c. If a horse becomes loose in the show ring the owner may be required to pay a fine to the
organiser. Should the horse become loose a second time it will be disqualified.
d. Deliberate baiting or crowding of a horse will not be tolerated.
20. MISUSE OF DRUGS. It is forbidden to administer any stimulant, sedative, masking agent,
anti-inflammatory agent, irritant or substance other than a normal nutrient to a horse or to cause
one to be administered in any way whatsoever or to show or attempt to show a horse, which is
found to have had administered to it any such stimulant, sedative or substance, whether
intentionally or unintentionally, which may affect performance, appearance, temperament or
soundness. Such forbidden substances are listed in the FEI Veterinary Regulations.
The Society reserves the right to cause to be carried out at any show, tests in accordance
with the Standard Sampling Procedure prescribed in the Veterinary Rules of the F.E.I. Refusal to
submit a horse for the taking of a sample for analysis shall constitute a breach of this rule. Anyone
found to be in breach of this rule would be subject to disciplinary action and in the event of a
positive test liable to pay administration costs.
21. SOUNDNESS. Exhibits which appear to be lame may be asked to withdraw at the judge’s
discretion.
22. EXAMINATION. Judges may require handlers to open horses’ mouths or pick up their feet
for inspection.

I think that they are reasonable rules to have given what goes on elsewhere.

I had never heard about braces being used on Arabs.

I personally much prefer watching the ridden Arab classes (eg at HOYS) where they are judged as ridden horses with a riding judge and a conformation judge.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I'm an idiot. I checked the thread.

Apparently driving horses that aren't docked is a safety issue.

 

[fburton]

Apparently driving horses that aren't docked is a safety issue.

Is it? I thought that was very much a practice of the past. (Sorry if I have misunderstood your point.)

Here's Barry Hook (who knows a thing or two about driving - his YouTube channel is brilliant) talking about docking...

 

[ester]

I think FC meant apparently as in we know it isn't true, it's just one of the lines that get touted, the same as cutting through muscles in your horses tail frees its back up (apparently)

 

[Floxie]

I think FC meant apparently as in we know it isn't true, it's just one of the lines that get touted, the same as cutting through muscles in your horses tail frees its back up (apparently)

How revolting How do we (humans) believe that sort of justification

 

[fburton]

I think FC meant apparently as in we know it isn't true, it's just one of the lines that get touted, the same as cutting through muscles in your horses tail frees its back up (apparently)

Thanks, ester - I rather suspected I was missing something. Apologies to FC.

 

[Snowfilly]

I've always been told by the heavy horse people that driving with a plough or something with moving parts with a full tail is dangerous, and that's why heavies have their tails either shaved or plaited up tighly when doing agricultural type classes.

The risk is much lower with a normal cart.

Docking and doing anything to tails is just barbaric. Ditto the feet.

 

[ester]

Oh absolutely working horses need to be plaited, tied up, or cut. No docking requirement though

 

[maisie06]

They cut the muscles under the dock and then by using straps and a tail support they hold the tail up so that it heals with the preferred added extra upwards mobility. The support often causes sores as it needs to be on for a fair length of time. It is painful so the horse wants to rub its tail, so you can buy a guard to prevent this. Of course you cannot turn your horse out during this time.

I have read claims that you can achieve a higher tail carriage by using a 'bustle' which is supposedly less cruel.

There are also images of horses in the show ring with metal braces (some actually poke into the mare's vulva) under their tails to hold then up. These tails normally have sores/healed sores and look distorted. The vertebrae look out of alignment, surely a sign that actually muscles have been cut? There are also apparently wigs for tails, so if your support/bustle/brace has caused such sores that your horse no longer grows a proper tail, don't worry, you can cover it all up and still get a rosette.

Basically they are taking a horse that has a natural low tail carriage and are trying to get a flagged tail like on an arab. They haven't bred for it though... it's far easier to mutilate the horse.


Someone did mention that the gait shown on the model wouldn't be achievable without long hooves and pads.

Pic showing metal brace below.
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That is horrific - showing knows no bounds, mutilating a horse for a bit of ribbon, this practice should be banned. Showing needs a complete overhaul of welfare standards.

 

[maisie06]

I've always been told by the heavy horse people that driving with a plough or something with moving parts with a full tail is dangerous, and that's why heavies have their tails either shaved or plaited up tighly when doing agricultural type classes.

The risk is much lower with a normal cart.

Docking and doing anything to tails is just barbaric. Ditto the feet.

I have no probelm with plaited up tails, they can still use them once the plait is removed and they are at rest!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Thanks, ester - I rather suspected I was missing something. Apologies to FC.

No problem. I did say something on the thread though as people were believing it.