Bridleway Blues

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SJPalmer

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Hi,
Is anybody else having trouble getting their county council to maintain bridleways or take complaints seriously? We've got eight out of 10 that are impassable, obstructed, unsignposted, tarmaced, used by HGV's or have dangerous road crossings (Yateley/Eversley in Hampshire).

I've been quietly campaigning for seven years with not much success so this winter, faced with losing the alternative of using any of the tracks in the open public common (which they want to fence and graze and restrict access to a few non-circular tracks) I started using a bit more emotive language in my emails, not rude or irrational, all evidenced with photographs and copying a wider audience of interested parties. County Council's response was to send me what is, in effective an online ASBO, banning me from communicating with them for 12 months and accusing me of emotionally harrassing their staff by creating an overload of work in the form of 3 emails in 4 months...

I'd be absolutely mortified if I didn't know they'd sent two other active rights of way campaigners for a well known charity similar bans. I wonder how many other complainants have received such bans in an effort to silence them instead of receiving a proper response or dare I say it - the action they sought in improving public rights of way?
 
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Yup, speak to your local paper. Maybe try and get a like minded group of people together, there's weight in numbers. Good luck, that's a very strange attitude for them to take.
 
Do you send a copy to your local Councillor? If you go to the Ramblers website there is a good explanation of a proceedure you can go through.

I think it is totally laughable that they are saying you are "harassing" their staff. Unbelievable.

You can serve an order (Section 63????) to make them get on with the work - but I think you have to give them time to respond.
he procedure for removing an obstruction - locked gates, barbed wire, derelict machinery, fallen trees etc etc etc is as follows:

Send a report of the obstruction to your local authority PRoW Department, and ask them for a timescale when action will be taken. KEEP COPIES! (Could SEND BY RECORDED DELIVERY! )

The report should contain the following information:

1. Your full name and contact details.
2. Date the problem discovered.
3. How long it has been a problem (if ongoing).
4. Full details of path: Type of path. Number of path.
5. In which parish is the path?
6. Grid references of start and end of path, and of position of obstruction.
7. Name of property on which path is situated (if known eg name of farm, wood, estate, park). (These path details should be checked on the definitive map if you have the slightest doubt about anything; in any case you will need to see the definitive map in order to quote the parish name and path number). The Definitive Map is held by your local County Council and should be available via the council's website.
8. Nature of the problem and comments on the relevance of the problem eg "locked gate; totally prevents access to remainder of path and connections to bridleway X and UCCR Y". or "path impassible due to fallen tree at grid reference 123456". or "chain harrows placed across path prevent any use of the path beyond GR 123456. These harrows are rusty and have abundant vegetation growing between the links, indicating that they have been in this position for some time"
9. A sketch map of where the problem is, and how it affects use of the path, may be useful.
10, DON'T FORGET to sign it and date it!
11. DON'T get emotional when writing it - stick to the facts. eg if there is a pool of slurry, don't write "eeeww it is disgusting and it stinks", but state that you are concerned about environmental pollution, hygiene and disease transmission ...

12. If nothing has happened after a month, contact the PRoW Department again and inform them that if no action is taken, then you may have to consider making a "Section 63" request. Section 63 of the 2000 Countryside and Rights of Way Act is an extremely powerful tool, and starts a process which, if not acted on, will result in a magistrates order requiring the Local Authority to take action to get the obstruction removed.

This process requires a series of specific Magistrates Court Process forms to be used. Generally, once Form 1 is received by the Local Authority, then they will take action and the problem will be sorted. HOWEVER there are some "renegade" local authorities who will try to get cost awards against users. For the majority of local authorities this is a very slim to zero risk, but you MUST make absolutely sure of your facts before sending Form 1 and activating Section 63. The mere mention of a section 63 will often galvanise the more craven, or more cooperative, LA's into action.

Obstructions commonly dealt with under section 63 are some of the following:
missing sign or waymark/incorrectly-sited sign or waymark/misleading sign or waymark/dangerous surface/surface out of repair/uncut crop with no indication of path/ploughed path/ploughed or cultivated path not reinstated/locked, unusable or dangerous gate/bull of a dairy breed over 10 months old/aggressive dog/missing or unsafe bridge/poor drainage impeding passage/fallen trees or branches/vegetation overgrowth esp nettles, brambles, gorse/dangerous fencing eg barb, electric/buildings and constructions/machinery on path/rocks on path/presence of slurry on path.
 
I know, I don't think they liked it me copying other interested parties - including commoners and councillors! One of the other people has been banned from asking for a meeting with the ROW officer to discuss a practical way forward to resolve the problems.
 
SJPalmer said:
Hi,
Is anybody else having trouble getting their county council to maintain bridleways or take complaints seriously? We've got eight out of 10 that are impassable, obstructed, unsignposted, tarmaced, used by HGV's or have dangerous road crossings (Yateley/Eversley in Hampshire).

I've been quietly campaigning for seven years with not much success so this winter, faced with losing the alternative of using any of the tracks in the open public common (which they want to fence and graze and restrict access to a few non-circular tracks) I started using a bit more emotive language in my emails, not rude or irrational, all evidenced with photographs and copying a wider audience of interested parties. County Council's response was to send me what is, in effective an online ASBO, banning me from communicating with them for 12 months and accusing me of emotionally harrassing their staff by creating an overload of work in the form of 3 emails in 4 months...

I'd be absolutely mortified if I didn't know they'd sent two other active rights of way campaigners for a well known charity similar bans. I wonder how many other complainants have received such bans in an effort to silence them instead of receiving a proper response or dare I say it - the action they sought in improving public rights of way?
Click to expand...

Use FOI request?
 
Orange Horse: Thank you for this detailed advice. It sounds like yours is the voice of much experience. I shall have to follow your lead and complain in writing rather than by email with PDFs of photographs. And I'll endeavour to have zero emotion in it, horses and enthusiasm clearly should remain bridled at all times in these circumstances if this is how they are going to avoid taking action. Thanks again.
 
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join the masons and learn the funny handshake :P they are probably all in it together.

having trouble with a FP near me but can`t believe how you have been treated !
 
It sounds to me as if the access department of your county council employs highly inefficient members of staff and I would be inclined to write to the chief executive of the county council concerned and explain the issues you are having with them.

I am in contact with the access department of my local county council on almost a weekly basis and in most cases they deal with matters quickly and efficiently and keep me informed of progress.

Peter Natt BHS Access Officer North Hertfordshire
 
Many moons ago when several bridle paths were unusable on the IOW the council said they didn't have the money to clear them.
The Riding Club held a Generation Game - challenging the Hunt, Hunt supporters Club and Pony Club. That raised so many laughs and was well attended with everyone throwing coins into a tablecloth at the end of the evening. More than enough was raised to pay the council to clear one path (a bridge needed to be replaced as the wood had rotted) Then on second thoughts it seemed a lot of money to pay them so in two weekends a path clearing was held. The whole track was cleared - the only thing that was paid out was diesel for a digger and for railway sleepers for the bridge.
Might be worth thinking about if they just need clearing.
 
PeterNatt said:
It sounds to me as if the access department of your county council employs highly inefficient members of staff and I would be inclined to write to the chief executive of the county council concerned and explain the issues you are having with them.

I am in contact with the access department of my local county council on almost a weekly basis and in most cases they deal with matters quickly and efficiently and keep me informed of progress.

Peter Natt BHS Access Officer North Hertfordshire
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Thanks but I think it was my last email to him that got me banned! I raised the issue of all the conflicting communications being given by councillors, staff and executive members to the public, local society, MP and even the Minister of Defra (quoting from correspondence I have from them) about the non publicised outcome of the public consultation on the common. 48 hours later I received their email banning me from further communication!
 
I am sorry but they can not ban you.
I would definately be writing to the chief executive of the county council and failing a response would then contact your member of parlament. I would also ask the local BHS Access Officer for assistance if that fails.
 
This sounds like atrocious behaviour by the officers and I think you will find they have a duty under the Countryside and Rights of Way Act to keep rights of way open and clear of obstructions. All councils are short of cash but that doesn't mean they have NO funds to carry out essential work.
I agree you should write to the CE and remind them of their statutory duties.
You are not being unreasonable - they are, so stick to your guns and make an official complaint about the response you have had.
Google the councils' complaints procedure and if you don't get anywhere with that, take them to the Local Authority Ombudsman - they have the powers to make councils fulfil their duties to the public - look at the LA Ombudsman web site, you can get advice from there or call them for advice, they have a help line.
You have to exhaust the complaints procedure first, and the council have a duty to tell you what to do next if you still are not happy with their responses.
Go gettem - don't just go away, which is what they want you to do!

Good luck
O and I have several "P"s to remember - Politely, pleasantly, persistently, pester and prod!!!
 
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Tried that. The CEO sends it to the complaints dept. who then do not answer the question correctly or it is off point.
After the nine months or so that it takes to get a reply because by now your MP is trying to help, they will send you another off point reply with the request that you do not contact them again on the matter. :D
 
If you serve a section 63 or whatever it's called can your Local Council close the bridleway? For example if you are saying the bridleway surface is dangerous and needs repair work can they say they agree it's dangerous (so close it) but haven't the budget to carry out repairs??
 
Cahill said:
join the masons and learn the funny handshake :P they are probably all in it together.

having trouble with a FP near me but can`t believe how you have been treated !
Click to expand...

That sounds like your best bet. Masons um declarable interest (they will avoid at all costs and defintely ignore you). Funny. Anyway OP you are paying their wages and they cant treat you like that. I am suprised. We have same with potholes they say the system on teh computer reporting cant cope with the complaints. Ineffecient bureaucracy. Are we suprised NO.
 
Sec. 130 HA 1980 imposes a duty on the HA to assert and protect the highway for the use and enjoyment of the public.
Sec.130A gives anyone the power to serve notice on the HA for removal of obstruction.
Sec.56 gives anyone the right to serve notice with regard to repair of the surface.
If only it was so simple and actually worked.
My Council closed a BOAT for four years on the basis that it was out of repair and therefore dangerous. That was illegal because the RTA 1984 does not permit closure for more than six months or at the very most if cable laying or some such is the cause, 18 months.
However it does what it likes and ignores all the laws because it knows that most of us cannot afford to involve lawyers and in any event the law is often indulgent when it comes to Councils.

With regards to the availability of finance, it is settled law that they may not use that as an excuse because Parliament has made it a duty. That duty is the same for them as it is for us when we are required to pay taxes, rates etc.
If Parliament meant the duty to be no more than a power it is up to Parliament so to provide and not for the Council to turn a duty into a power!

That is the law but these days it seems as if there is no justice for the ordinary man.
 
MaudieMo said:
Sec. 130 HA 1980 imposes a duty on the HA to assert and protect the highway for the use and enjoyment of the public.
Sec.130A gives anyone the power to serve notice on the HA for removal of obstruction.
Sec.56 gives anyone the right to serve notice with regard to repair of the surface.
If only it was so simple and actually worked.
My Council closed a BOAT for four years on the basis that it was out of repair and therefore dangerous. That was illegal because the RTA 1984 does not permit closure for more than six months or at the very most if cable laying or some such is the cause, 18 months.
However it does what it likes and ignores all the laws because it knows that most of us cannot afford to involve lawyers and in any event the law is often indulgent when it comes to Councils.

With regards to the availability of finance, it is settled law that they may not use that as an excuse because Parliament has made it a duty. That duty is the same for them as it is for us when we are required to pay taxes, rates etc.
If Parliament meant the duty to be no more than a power it is up to Parliament so to provide and not for the Council to turn a duty into a power!

That is the law but these days it seems as if there is no justice for the ordinary man.
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Thanks for clarification on that. Our local Council are rubbish. I've reported dangerous /unuseable gates on bridleways years ago and aprt from their usual holding reply letter nothing gets done. The Council seem so worried about upsetting landowners that they just ignore horseriders/Bridleway Groups. We had a bridleway tarmaced (slippery to ride on) as the householders didn't want their cars going up a rough surfaced track. Council said the home owners were in the wrong and had to reinstate original surface. Needless to say 5 years down the line the tarmac remains USELESS. Have been a ember of local Bridleway Group for 10 years and am disgusted at the lack of empathy with horseriders from the Council PROW.
 
Thats interesting. I wonder if there is any way in which we could get an idea of if the majority of Councils were rubbish or not. Surely there must be some ok ones somewhere or perhaps not?

I think we need to know but how do we find out? I wonder if BHS would like to put one or two questions to their members on their web site or perhaps we could do it on this one?
Like

'how helpful do you find your local council in maintaing bridleways?

How helpful are they in providing links to join up the bridleway network?

do they examine claims for bridleways within the statutory 12 months?
If not how far behind are they?
Do the ROW Teams have a good knowledge of horses and the problems we encounter?

More suggestions welcome.
 
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Public services are on their knees. Cut back cut back. No excuse as a country dont have money left in the public purse. Get rid of MP second homes, council subsidised cafes etc I sometimes have been and see where our hard earned cash has gone to. Well gritted and well maintained. Excuses, but we are broke.

Get as many people to write in support.
 
Yes but it doesn't stop all the big salaries does it?

Also we pay a huge amount of money in council tax each year which
the County Council take and then do not do their statutory duties.

One law for them and another for us!
 
Passtheshampoo said:
Thanks for clarification on that. Our local Council are rubbish. I've reported dangerous /unuseable gates on bridleways years ago and aprt from their usual holding reply letter nothing gets done. The Council seem so worried about upsetting landowners that they just ignore horseriders/Bridleway Groups. We had a bridleway tarmaced (slippery to ride on) as the householders didn't want their cars going up a rough surfaced track. Council said the home owners were in the wrong and had to reinstate original surface. Needless to say 5 years down the line the tarmac remains USELESS. Have been a ember of local Bridleway Group for 10 years and am disgusted at the lack of empathy with horseriders from the Council PROW.
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I fail to understand how you find a tarmac bridleway slippery and unridable when the surface of roads which a lot of horse riders use are made of the same stuff...

We received complaints that our bridleway gates were impossible to use due to them being weighted. They were weighted about ten years ago because people never shut them and it meant livestock getting out. I have used them since being very small and have never had a problem, it seems that a lot of riders around us just do not know how to use bridlegates from their horse, which is dangerous in itself.
 
RunToEarth said:
I fail to understand how you find a tarmac bridleway slippery and unridable when the surface of roads which a lot of horse riders use are made of the same stuff...

We received complaints that our bridleway gates were impossible to use due to them being weighted. They were weighted about ten years ago because people never shut them and it meant livestock getting out. I have used them since being very small and have never had a problem, it seems that a lot of riders around us just do not know how to use bridlegates from their horse, which is dangerous in itself.
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It can be true about tarmac. I went on a an organised bike ride which included a long, mostly gravelly track (it was also a bridleway) . The lower end had been tarmaced at the the request of the houseowners there and despite it being brand new, it was absolutely deadly - I was on my mountain bike. Lord knows how shod hooves coped with it.
 
MaudieMo said:
Thats interesting. I wonder if there is any way in which we could get an idea of if the majority of Councils were rubbish or not. Surely there must be some ok ones somewhere or perhaps not?

I think we need to know but how do we find out? I wonder if BHS would like to put one or two questions to their members on their web site or perhaps we could do it on this one?
Like

'how helpful do you find your local council in maintaing bridleways?

How helpful are they in providing links to join up the bridleway network?

do they examine claims for bridleways within the statutory 12 months?
If not how far behind are they?
Do the ROW Teams have a good knowledge of horses and the problems we encounter?

More suggestions welcome.
Click to expand...

I'd like to turn the coin and ask the BHS why they are such a failure and do not support claims to regain bridleway status to an old carriage road (down on maps as a public road) which an owner has blocked off. The matter is with the council, they've been very helpful and we have more than enough affidavits of its use as a bridleway since the 1940s but as the owner has pots of money which they will use, they need to know they can win the case if it came to appeal; it's already been to the SofS who passed it back to the council. The BHS, when they were approached back in the beginning have been ******ing useless and did not want to know or even have any advice for us; I'm frankly disgusted at them as it's what I pay my subs for, their access department expertise.
OP, hope you get yours sorted.
 
It is not possible to comment on individual cases without knowing the facts but nevertheless I am sorry to hear that you had so little support from the BHS.
Just a reminder though, the the BHS is the sum total of its volunteers and they are always looking for more.
Perhaps you could help?
Pleased to hear we can log one helpful Council. Would you like to tell us which one it is?
 
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