Bridleway issue - thoughts please.

SpottedCat

SpottedCat

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 May 2007
Messages
11,668
Visit site
I have recently had an interesting conversation with a local council about a bridleway near me. The bridleway has both low hanging branches and pigs immediately adjacent to it. On the other side is public open space consisting of public amenity land. This is through a hedgerow.

I was informed that:

1. It is acceptable and normal to have to repeatedly duck to avoid branches along a narrow wooded bridleway. They won't be cutting any more back.

2. That in order to avoid the pigs (which have caused several local riders to be thrown) I should unofficially, and without permission, ride on the public amenity land - they have no interest in providing a diversion onto the land (which is in public ownership), nor in creating a safe access onto and off it. I should do this until someone complains.

I feel I have highlighted a danger and provided a workable solution. They said 'we'd have to do all kinds of paperwork to divert the bridleway' - well yes, is that not their job?! I appreciate that it is up to the farmer where he keeps his pigs - but this bridleway is now unusable - you can't get your horse past the pigs because you have to lean forward and duck to avoid the branches.

If anyone says I should get the horse used to pigs, do feel free to come and desensitise him - I had a horse on a pig farm for 6 years, nothing worked, he never got over it. I am more than happy for any HHO smart-arse to come and ride him past the pigs in order to get him used to them - serious offer.

In any case, this is NOT about whether or not the pigs should be there, it is about whether or not the council have a duty of care with respect to a) providing us with a bridleway we can ride along without ducking, and b) diverting the bridleway where a clear hazard exists, an alternative route is available and the costs would be minimal (two posts with signs on, and a days labour to create access at either end).

Thoughts?

(PS I await the three million posts which will now tell me I a) clearly can't ride at all because of the pig issue and b) it's my problem and I should get over it because the farmer can keep what he likes there. I do know that, which is why I'm not going down the 'move the pigs' course of action!!)
 
Do you have a local bridleway group, ours is good at responding to issues such as this, they deal with the council and fund improvements to ours. Several local farmers are now much more helpful, keeping paths clear, a contractor cuts overhanging branches while he hedgecuts locally.
We even have a new right of way across a field, which means an extra route we can ride.
It may be worth approaching the farmer, who owns the pigs to see if he would help clear the track, he probably has the equipment and has no idea his pigs are causing a problem.
 
ask the definitive map officer what the "definitive width" of this bridleway is recorded as. Youll probably find it is something much wider than what's currently usable and in order to get it to its recorded width, the hedgerow may have to be cut back severely.

once you've got the def.width, then write to the council (and your local councillors and BHS bridleways rep) informing them that this bridleway is not being maintained to its correct defintive width by the highway authority and that as it is their duty to do so, as a ratepayer you expect them to take remedial action to restore the bridleway to its correct width without delay.

further, as a user of a public right of way, you are perfectly entitled to cut back any overgrowrth/udnergrowth which is impeding your use ofthat right of way.

if you want to be nice and pre-empt the council's "we haven't got time.budget.money" argument, then you can get together with a few likeminded souls, having discovered the def.width, and inform the highway authority that you intend to hold a volunteer working party to clear the bridleway. (if you can do this under auspices of local BHS bridleway officer, or local bridleway group or riding club, then you will be able to get 3rd party liabilty cover from your existing group.club insurers which will pre-empt the council's next argument that they've love you to do it bt you won't be insured).

good luck. keep smiling, keep personable but keep insistent. you'll get there in the end.
 
I have emailed the local bridleway group, and also have drafted a letter to the MP for the area.

I offered to go out with the RoW officer and demonstrate the height issue, he declined....
 
Avoiding the pigs issue, and depending on length of bridleway I would just get a few people together and cut the branches back (again depends on the extent etc).

If not, I would follow above - sometimes with these things, they will not have time/money to do things, and you just have to do them yourselves - like the unpaid snow officers we have in the event of the roads being covered again :)
 
I'm afraid I have no helpful suggestions, but would you mind PMing me the location of the pigs? I'm planning to start hacking out in the area, and will definitely need to avoid pigs!

Thanks :)
 
Tinselface said:
Avoiding the pigs issue, and depending on length of bridleway I would just get a few people together and cut the branches back (again depends on the extent etc).

If not, I would follow above - sometimes with these things, they will not have time/money to do things, and you just have to do them yourselves - like the unpaid snow officers we have in the event of the roads being covered again :)
Click to expand...

Long narrow bridleway - good idea, not sure where we'd put the arisings though!
 
Suechoccy said:
ask the definitive map officer what the "definitive width" of this bridleway is recorded as. Youll probably find it is something much wider than what's currently usable and in order to get it to its recorded width, the hedgerow may have to be cut back severely.
Click to expand...

Excellent, thankyou - I knew they were all recorded on a definitive map, I had no idea they also recorded a definitive width!

I am more than happy to do some work to make it usable - but not sure anyone else would help since they can't use it (and all think I am mad for trying) since people fell off and horses ran for home.

I nearly landed on an unsuspecting dog walker yesterday - had walked past the pigs for the previous two days with expected snorting and drama but nothing wild, then yesterday was ducking, horse took advantage, leapt through the hedge onto the public amenity land, how I did not lose an eye on a branch I do not know!!
 
SpottedCat said:
Long narrow bridleway - good idea, not sure where we'd put the arisings though!
Click to expand...

Throw them in with the pigs?!

And tell people to man up, get some velcro jodhs on and get pony club kicking :p

(must be some hunting people in the area who might help - they're normally not scared by stuff?)
 
How about the Health and Safety side, if the council have been informed of a problem, do nothing the sort it out and an accident occurs would they be liable? Might make them change their mind about cutting the branches at least.
 
Tinselface said:
Throw them in with the pigs?!

And tell people to man up, get some velcro jodhs on and get pony club kicking :p

(must be some hunting people in the area who might help - they're normally not scared by stuff?)
Click to expand...

When are you coming to ride mine past them then? I stayed on, as we leapt through (yes, through) a hedge, having walked past them for the previous two days. Today I got abuse from car drivers instead because I stuck to the road (should be on the bridleway), yesterday I got it from the dog walker I nearly landed on (fair enough, though I was as shocked as he was!). :p

Look, I can, just about, live with the pig issue, but is it seriously ok for a paid public servant to tell me he doesn't want the paperwork which goes with a diversion and I should trespass instead? And that I should expect to duck when using a bridleway?! ;)

Not really a hunting area - too urban - most people are further south. :)
 
lostmymarbles said:
How about the Health and Safety side, if the council have been informed of a problem, do nothing the sort it out and an accident occurs would they be liable? Might make them change their mind about cutting the branches at least.
Click to expand...

I pointed that out to the Rights of Way man, he didn't seem at all interested and reiterated his idea that I should trespass!
 
Aww this is rubbish! The council can be sooo unhelpful!

We had a little public footpath near my old house (led to the park - popular with dogwalkers) that always became overgrown, the council wouldn't do anything about it unless a certain number of people rang up and complained about it. So we got everyone on the estate to ring the council and complain - then they came and cut it all down. They never maintain it though! People still have to ring up and complain every time it needs cutting.

Maybe this might work in your case, get as many people as you can to ring up and complain about the bridleway.. You might be the first person to complain about it, if a few more rang they might actually do somthing to help?

If all else fails - cut it back yourself if possible?? Good Luck! :D
 
You'd be suprised, my OH has always farmed sheep and if anyone came and asked us to move our animals, if he could - he would. I'm sure I could say the same about most of the local farmers we meet through markets etc. As for cutting down the over hanging branches, I'm am pretty sure that could be achieved with a smile and a bottle of something :)
 
Spotted cat
No idea where you are in UK does your area have an Outdoor Access Forum--there should be an equestrian rep on that to contact or as above your BHS County Access rep.
 
Speak to your local councilor about the overhanging branches and the defined width. They are the people who set priorities for council officers, so they can speak to the department and tell them to get on with it.
Diverting the route of a bridlepath is huge issue, they won't do it because of a few pigs.
Goodluck.
 
Jinglebell said:
Diverting the route of a bridlepath is huge issue, they won't do it because of a few pigs.
Click to expand...

Having worked in Local Government and peripherally been involved in this, I'd beg to differ, so we'll agree to disagree. It's not a huge issue where the adjacent land is also in public ownership, it doesn't substantially change the route, and a permissive way could be put in whilst retaining the current bridleway route. If the Rights of Way officer cared about public access, he would have been willing to meet with me to discuss a permissive way being added on to the existing route, on land the council already own and is already used for public access - he turned me down flat.
 
The council don't give a S***. I've ranted on here about it before - we live opposite a bridleway that had 2 access points along a strip of grass (that then goes off round the fields). As we would have to walk 50m on a busy road that people speed on (its the main road off into villages, national speed limit) and also visibility coming off the bridleway is poor, we cut a small gap in a hedge opposite our gate so we literally had to just walk straight across the road.

We get informed after a year of using it that we have cut a gap in a "conservation habitat" and they blocked it up. Despite our protests and concerns over our safety, mr hedge loving council man got his way. And then they had a council meeting with police to discuss the issue and didn't invite us so they didn't take bridleway users into consideration at all! So now we have to cross a main road coming off the bridleway, where the road bends round and you can't see the cars. Nice one.

We have loads of issues with low branches too. Sorry, but it is not acceptable to have to duck! And when/if they can be bothered to trim them, they do it for pony height. Not helpful on a 16.2hh!
 
It's not actually the councils responsability to cleare the overhanging branches - that is down to the farmer - however the council can serve a notice and if it's not done they can do the job and charge the farmer.

Your best recourse is to ask the farmer, if that doesn't work contact the BHS who will put you in touch with your local access person who will be able to help
 
CarolineDAEP said:
It's not actually the councils responsability to cleare the overhanging branches - that is down to the farmer - however the council can serve a notice and if it's not done they can do the job and charge the farmer.

Your best recourse is to ask the farmer, if that doesn't work contact the BHS who will put you in touch with your local access person who will be able to help
Click to expand...

It is on this one - it's on council land!
 
You should move to Herts a lot of the footpaths have been raped of any overhanging anything in the past couple of years we have new metal awful clanking gates. No wood now. Our ramblers have gone from narrow passages to ie 20foot width of path(no horses allowed)!. Trees chopped etc I got told they have more in the budget for more clanking metal gates.

Bridleways well we have incorrect signage and I got told something similar just ignore it and carry on riding as long as no one complains. One of those situations where the council ROWs just make it up as they go along. Our ROWs officers really dont seem to care. We have a local farmer who has dumped concrete(crushed double glazing etc) along a bridle way route and despite complaints it has been left for about 2-3 years. He is a member of natural England of course. Lots of people have written and its still there.

I sincerely wish you good luck. As regards to the pigs I dont know?? I avoid pigs along another route as horses and pigs I always understood dont like each other....not sure what the farmer could do about it really, he has a livlihood etc? Sorry

But good luck. Anything you send in to ROWs has to be recorded etc. Unfortunately there are more ramblers than us horse riders so its people power.
 
if the council's rights of way officer is being disinterested then he or she isn't doing their job.

Take it higher, with his manager, with your local County Councillor, with the Chief Executive of the County Council, and in the email you send to each/the three of them, threaten to go to the local press if they don't help you in this matter.

Try a phone call through to one of the three too. Then back up whatever is said on the phone by an email "summarising our telephone call of 2/12/11" to them.

Keep smiling, keep the letter polite, keep the threat to go to the press veiled, ie "I'll play nicely if you play nicely".

Liaison and winning them over is the first key, but set clear cut-off dates so they don't fob you off, and then go to the press, escalate it if you need to.

PS get the ramblers with you. Find a number for local ramblers and give them a call. They could be as peed-off by the low branches/narrow path/bridleway not being kept to its definitive width and therefore giving them less room around horses. Get them on your side and you'll probably find they know exactly who the best person in the council is to talk to.
 
SpottedCat said:
When are you coming to ride mine past them then? I stayed on, as we leapt through (yes, through) a hedge, having walked past them for the previous two days. Today I got abuse from car drivers instead because I stuck to the road (should be on the bridleway), yesterday I got it from the dog walker I nearly landed on (fair enough, though I was as shocked as he was!). :p

Look, I can, just about, live with the pig issue, but is it seriously ok for a paid public servant to tell me he doesn't want the paperwork which goes with a diversion and I should trespass instead? And that I should expect to duck when using a bridleway?! ;)

Not really a hunting area - too urban - most people are further south. :)
Click to expand...

Me?! Not anytime soon! My horse is a wuss when it comes to pigs - I was just being a PITA - sorry! But I do ride down narrow bridleways, and do duck mid canter when needed, favourite is a disused railway track that is beautifully drained, but the steep drops on either side are interesting if the horse wants to prat around :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top