Brief news on Forrest

[seabiscuit]

Just had some brief news from the vet about Forrest ( have not been able to get hold of them to have a full discussion yet) but he has low grade wobblers, is lame in one hind and they are injecting cortisone into the joint ( wether that is into the neck or in the hind leg I dont know, but still need to find out what is causing the lameness- or does wobblers cause lameness?)Have yet to discuss the full prognosis for him but they said that some improve with the cortisone ,some dont.

In my opinion cortisone is only a temporary solution and not a route I would want to go down permantly as it only offers temp pain relief and at the same time destroys cartilage.

So anyone know what the future prognosis is for a horse with wobblers? Can they compete at all?can they be treated? or will they all only be hacks? Any info appreciated. Am currently trying to search on net but not getting much info on treatment and prognosis.

P.S he is fine after latest colic attack

 

[Super_Kat]

Wobblers is caused by a narrowing of the spinal cord isn't it?
Have known a few horses with wobblers (this isn't going to be what you want to hear) but they were all PTS. Can you get different grades of wobblers? Or is it a degenerative condition?
*hugs* to you, not the news you wanted.

 

[seabiscuit]

Have no idea - but I know that it is termed as 'mild' to 'moderate' to 'severe' ...argh and F's is only mild

 

[Weezy]

Personally never heard of a horse competing with diagnosed wobblers but thats only my experience

Although good to have a diagnosis I can imagine it doesnt bring much comfort to you

 

[tigers_eye]

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure Supreme Rock had Wobblers and grew out of it. Most youngsters that have it get PTS, but I guess some types of the disease can go... and SR didn't do too badly!

 

[seabiscuit]

Thanks Weezy- I cant see how they can compete anyway to be honest.

Dont really think he has a good quality of life anymore.Being kept in a box 24-7.Now he will have limited exercise as well. Fine if he was kept in a box and had a thriving active life under saddle but if he cant do that what will he do? Will need to discuss more with the vet but seriously wondering wether he should go on.

 

[Super_Kat]

I'm sat here racking my brains because I can remember having a big conversation about this, can't remember the content of the convo though

I'm sure it causes bad co-ordination of the back end because the messages from the brain aren't getting down the spinal cord. Not sure how much competing you could do with a horse with wobblers if I'm right (hoping I'm wrong though!)

 

[seabiscuit]

Really? WOW!! Thank you tigers eye that give me hope!

 

[lisaward]

will try to find some info too,i'll type the links if i find any.
found this whilst looking for links
http://www.newrider.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-12268.html

am off on the links case

 

[sevenoceans]

Hi sweets... i do feel for you... but try not to lose any sleep over this until my mum has spoken to them and gets full story tomorrow... it's not gonna be easy for you.... see u tomorrow eve.xxxx

 

[lisaward]

Many diseases and disorders display signs similar to EPM. There are probably more horses out there with wobbler then EPM.
Wobbler, also known as wobbles, takes its name from its primary sign--a wobbling or uncoordinated gait. In technical terms, the horse has a "proprioceptiveness deficit", or a lack of physical awareness or his limbs and their placement. Wobbler horses dont know where there feet are. This leads to clumsiness and gereral incoordination(ataxia) of the limbs. The disease can become so sever that the horse crashes into things or cant stand up. However, that's not common. The signs can develop gradually or the horse can be normal one day and severely abnormal the next day. In addition, the signs might be seen only in the hind lims, or could affect all four limbs. As a general rule, though, the unsteadiness is symmetrical, affecting right and left sides to an equal degree.
Compression of the spinal cord causes the distinctive "wobble" of the wobbler syndrome. Diet, activity, and conformation are all potential contributors, but not much research has been done. Micronutrient nutrition-known to impact degenertive joint disease-might play a part, as might high energy(high carbs/grains) diets and copper deficiency. There also seems to be a strong genetic component to wobbler syndrome. The horse doesnt necessarily inherit the disease, but he may inherit traits that increase the likelihood of getting it. Male horses, for instance, are twice as likely as females to suffer from wobbler. Larger, faster-growing individuals and breed notabley Thoroughbreds, warmbloods, and Quarter horses also seem to be affected more often
IDENTIFYING THE DISORDER:
If you suspect your horse has wobbler, your vet would need to conduct a thorough physical and neurological exam.
If there is no evidence from the exam of problems in the brain, the brain stem, or the cranial nerve, but there is eveidence of gait ataxia or proprioceptiveness deficit, then the problem is in the spinal cord, and its in the neck.
The next step is to take a sample radiographs of the neck bones. These images can be extremely baluable in helping the vet pinpoint the location and cause of signs.
If the width of the vertabral is less than half the width of the vertebral body, you have an 80% probability that the horse is a true wobbler.
If radiographic evidence isnt stong enough, the vet should follow up with a myelogram. This procedure - in which a dye is injected into the spinal canal and another set of radiographs is taken- is the only way to definitively identify wobbler syndrome. But it requires general anesthesia for the horse, so it involves a certain amount of risk and expense.
found this
Dont despair if your horse is diagnosed with wobbler syndrome. Neurological is not a euphemism for necropsy(postormtem exam). There are many things you can do to treat the horse and allow him to have a long, successful like. Some options are non-surgical and the surgical options would be dorsal laminectomy and (removing portions of the bone from the spine). The other most common is cervical stabilization. In this procedure, the affected joint is fused with a metal insert.

 

[Skhosu]

oh dear, poor forrest doesn't have the best deal in life.
Always been told its dangerous to ride a Wobblers, in case they fall over....hope the vets have better news.

 

[seabiscuit]

Thank you for that Kat...interesting to know!!

 

[S_N]

Right, well the prognosis is usually bleak - sorry! BUT, have you heard of the following horses - Shamardal, Saint Ballado, Indian Charlie & Seattle Slew?

They are all TB's, 2 have now passed on (SB & SS - SB at 13yrs & SS at 28yrs). Shamardal was diagnosed as a wobbler as a weanling in the USA (I knew him then), he was sent over here and sold for 50,000guineas at Tats - considering he is by Giant's Causeway and out a full sister to Street Cry (Dubai World Cup winner) this was very cheap, even though the consigner who sold him made it clear that all kinds of x-rays were available to be looked at. He went on to become Champion 2yo colt in 2004 or 2005, I can't remember which - he is now a stallion!

The other 3 all had an operation called a - now I ALWAYS get this wrong, it's either a Bagby Caskit, Cagby Basket

Sorry. Anyway, this is like a basket thing that is put into the vertibra to keep it off the spinal cord (very simply). The problem was in these guys necks. I don't know if that op. is offered over ere, or even if it would help, I just wanted you to see that there is possibly light at the end of the tunnel.

Huge huggles hun - glad he is over his colic.

 

[lisaward]

found;
A study of 15 racing/eventing horses treated with acupuncture needles for chronic back pain found that 13 had alleviation of their pain such that they could perform normally and compete (Kilde & Martin). A study of wobblers found a 90% response rate when treatment started before pronouced articular degeneration (Jeffries & Cain). Both acute and chronic laminitis can benefit with success rates of up to 90% (Kilde & Kung).

 

[seabiscuit]

WOW THANK YOU HORSENUT YOU ARE A STAR!!! xxxxxx
fantastic information....!

 

[seabiscuit]

Isobel- HUGE thank you- really fantastic to hear all this I am so gratefull XXX very encouraged and surprised to hear about Sharmardal.

Ok so now I have to research this Basket thingy operation!! And then make the insurance pay for it if it will help!!

Thank you again XXXXX

 

[seabiscuit]

Brilliant !!thank you Lisa!

 

[S_N]

YOu're welcome hun!! I've just taken a sleeping pill, so I don't htink I'm gonmbe muchk morelhelp 2nite! Seatle Slew had 2 of them!! REmined metofind outs omem ore fo r you 2nooroow!

 

[lisaward]

have joined this site to find out more but am waiting for conformation email will PM you any info as and when i get it

http://www.thehorse.com

ps glad you like the stallion and his sire.

 

[seabiscuit]

PMSL thank you again Iz!!any more info much appreciated! From what you said have found out that it seems like the USA is FAR better at treating Wobblers than the UK!

 

[seabiscuit]

Lisa you absolute star thank you

 

[lisaward]

usa do seem to have more info than us looking at what i've found tonight.

 

[seabiscuit]

Yeah the USA sites are very positive, the UK sites are very negative

 

[Tia]

QR

Really sorry to hear this Seabiscuit. I don't really have any experience of this condition but I found these information sheets on the web - actually there are a tonne of sites offering information over here so if you need someone in North America to search on Google for anything (google appears to be area-specific), then just shout.

http://www.buckeyenutrition.com/equinetechnical

http://petcaretips.net/wobbler_syndrome_horse.html

 

[sallyf]

Its otto was also a wobbler as a yearling and grew out of it.

 

[seabiscuit]

Fantastic sites- thank you Tia!! Seems treatment by surgery is very popular and successfull where you are!

 

[seabiscuit]

Gracious-! that is very encouraging

 

[H's mum]

OMG! what a terrible shock!!!!

Sadly the only horses I've ever known with Wobblers were PTS - so I'm unable to give you any advice/help on this one - just the offer of a shoulder...
*hugs*
Kate x

 

[Bossanova]

Oh god, I really feel for you!!

It may be worth talking to Sue Devereux about whether she may be able to help- shes a vet and acupuncturist so can give you an honest opinion and may be able to possibly help....