Brightwells sale yesterday

now this one I do remember, 15 was AMAZING!!!! even popped the rail, then bounced into the heft double, one stride and effortlessly floated out. Went for 50K- highest price of the night :D
 
Oo my turn did anyone see what I can fly went for? I can't remember his no a 2yrold stallion he was top of my wish list! And possibly what no 26 went for? Xx
 
pigsmight:) said:
Thankyou! I clearly have to much taste for my budget! Haha X
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He was the only one who made proper money, but I do wonder whether there might be something dodgy... Selected in Germany, sold at Addington, bought by a big German stud... seems like a bit of a waste of a very very long trip???

I mean he was one of the nicer ones, but no more than some others there AND I heard a girl in the toilet say he had a splint and a chip in one hock... go figure!

I hear on the grapevine that a lot of the x-rays were less than desirable. I didn't even go near the vet's office. I was watching, not buying, but with hindsight, it would have been really useful to see the x-rays, so I had the full picture and that might have helped explain the absence of rhyme or reason for some of those prices...
 
Yes that is abit odd ginnieredwings! He looked a bit special on his vid but the yard that he was coming from looked very professional and able to show them off at there best.

It's difficult to know what really goes on at auctions isn't it.

PM x
 
I know what you mean, from videos and on paper, lots 15 & 9 were the two that had particularly caught my eye. In the flesh, lot 9 (IMO) lived up to expectation and lot 15 less so.

All the horses there, save 1 or 2, were definitely presented to their best, by very professional teams and if the guy from Brighwells hadn't kept sticking himself in the line of the oxer (the idiot), all would have jumped easily. In terms of the prep, I felt you really could compare like for like.
 
It seems many didn't sell, that's a shame as it makes the auction seem like a failure. Here you never hear the words not sold, what will happen is a representative of the seller will bid until the price is an acceptable level. Should the horse not make that price the connection ends up as the buyer, and the seller will have to pay the commission etc to the auction organisers, that's the risk he takes. It works well, as sellers will be realistic, seeing as they don;t want to end up out of pocket. It also means the auction doesn't end up a damp squib.
 
Damp squib is a good word... I did wonder if what you are describing re: bidding isn't what happened in the case of lot 15.

In case anyone is interested, I'd already typed the below up on the breeding forum:

1- £6,000
2- £5,500
4- £6,200
5- £6,100
6- £12,500
7- £10,000
8- £6,500 NS
9- £11,000 NS (my favourite - cracking horse, but didn't see the x-rays!)
10- £4,500
11- £4,800 NS (didn't think he was as nice as his pedigree might indicate - very personal feeling though)
12- £3,500 (Cash Point foal was cracking & very disappointing price IMO)
13- £12,500 NS
14- £4,200
15- £50,000
16- £12,500
17- £1,800 NS
18- W
19- W
21- W
22- £46,000 NS
23- £5,500 NS
24- £31,000 NS
25- £10,000
26- W
27- £20,000 (I liked that one very much)
28- £9,000
30- £14,500 NS
31- £10,000 (impressive, but a cow in the stable)
32- £6,800 NS
33- £5,000 (very poor condition, but not a bad horse)
34- £9,500 NS
35- £3,600
36- £9,000
37- £13,500 NS
38- £12,000 NS
39 (lot 64)- £13,000 NS
40- £6,500
42- £9,000
43- £5,200 NS (loooved that one - not sure why so little interest)
44- £2,200 (I felt this horse was either unprepared or out of place in that sale & there was no reserve...)
45- £15,000 (lovely great big horse, beautifully light and under saddle, poor price for it IMO)
46- £12,000 NS (I'm biased, he gave me the biggest cuddle in the stable :D)
47- £11,500 (I would have taken that one home, happily)
48- £7,500
49- W (gutted, really wanted to see him)
50- W (and that one...)
51- W
52- £7,000
53- £10,000 (I liked him)
54- £19,000 NS (that was very nice)
55- £3,200
56- £14,000 NS
57- £6,000

Must add that my feelings about all the horses are based on what I saw in the ring - I saw no x-rays and wasn't able to assess confo very closely (particularly limbs).
 
GinnieRedwings said:
Damp squib is a good word... I did wonder if what you are describing re: bidding isn't what happened in the case of lot 15.

In case anyone is interested, I'd already typed the below up on the breeding forum:

1- £6,000
2- £5,500
4- £6,200
5- £6,100
6- £12,500
7- £10,000
8- £6,500 NS
9- £11,000 NS (my favourite - cracking horse, but didn't see the x-rays!)
10- £4,500
11- £4,800 NS (didn't think he was as nice as his pedigree might indicate - very personal feeling though)
12- £3,500 (Cash Point foal was cracking & very disappointing price IMO)
13- £12,500 NS
14- £4,200
15- £50,000
16- £12,500
17- £1,800 NS
18- W
19- W
21- W
22- £46,000 NS
23- £5,500 NS
24- £31,000 NS
25- £10,000
26- W
27- £20,000 (I liked that one very much)
28- £9,000
30- £14,500 NS
31- £10,000 (impressive, but a cow in the stable)
32- £6,800 NS
33- £5,000 (very poor condition, but not a bad horse)
34- £9,500 NS
35- £3,600
36- £9,000
37- £13,500 NS
38- £12,000 NS
39 (lot 64)- £13,000 NS
40- £6,500
42- £9,000
43- £5,200 NS (loooved that one - not sure why so little interest)
44- £2,200 (I felt this horse was either unprepared or out of place in that sale & there was no reserve...)
45- £15,000 (lovely great big horse, beautifully light and under saddle, poor price for it IMO)
46- £12,000 NS (I'm biased, he gave me the biggest cuddle in the stable :D)
47- £11,500 (I would have taken that one home, happily)
48- £7,500
49- W (gutted, really wanted to see him)
50- W (and that one...)
51- W
52- £7,000
53- £10,000 (I liked him)
54- £19,000 NS (that was very nice)
55- £3,200
56- £14,000 NS
57- £6,000

Must add that my feelings about all the horses are based on what I saw in the ring - I saw no x-rays and wasn't able to assess confo very closely (particularly limbs).
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Thanks for that :D Very interesting! Even though I will never afford a performance horse like this in a million years :rolleyes: unless I win the lottery of course :D From the video I thought no. 37 had the most amazing jump!! However they did seem pretty big fences to be jumping 2 year olds over in some cases :( saw a couple he seemed to land quite badly and not sure how much good it does to their joints at that age...

Would be interested to see what the eventer and dressage ones go for today too. Do they publish the results.
 
GinnieRedwings said:
He was the only one who made proper money, but I do wonder whether there might be something dodgy... Selected in Germany, sold at Addington, bought by a big German stud... seems like a bit of a waste of a very very long trip???

I mean he was one of the nicer ones, but no more than some others there AND I heard a girl in the toilet say he had a splint and a chip in one hock... go figure!

I hear on the grapevine that a lot of the x-rays were less than desirable. I didn't even go near the vet's office. I was watching, not buying, but with hindsight, it would have been really useful to see the x-rays, so I had the full picture and that might have helped explain the absence of rhyme or reason for some of those prices...
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I went to the last sale and was interested in three. Two out of the three had bad xrays. Is there really any point in selling 'superb' horses if they will be field ornaments within a few years? Can't see that I would buy from here as 'selected' seems to be good lines and good loose jumping, assurance that they are vetted and xrayed but no thoughts to how bad the vetting is........
 
I was there. Prices low in general, although the same could perhaps be said about some of the horses. State Premium Sweetheart, lovely mare, went to Jennie Loriston Clarke for 25k I think; lovely grey Crossing Louis went for 24. Ruth Edge's stunning eventer didn't sell, bidding reached 35K. Ruth's dressage horse sold for 2.7k!!! Someone got a massive bargain. Most dressage horses seemed to sell, prices were between 7 and 17k in general. I think the mare in foal to Totilas went for 19. There were one or two there with xrays that would make me question whether they should have even been included in the sale.
 
I really don't understand why, when they have a selection procedure, they include horses that have suspect xrays? Surely all they are doing is de-valuing what should be (and is marketed as) an elite sale?!

We went on Thursday for the SJ sale and very much enjoyed watching, there were some lovely horses but the prices seemed very variable. I guess people had seen things in the vet report or in the stables that were affecting the prices. The fact that there were a couple of horses that I could have actually afforded to buy was very indicative of the prices! I really shouldn't have been able to afford anything from this sort of sale and certainly wouldn't be able to from a European elite sale.

Very interesting about Ruth's horses as I would have thought they would both have made their money - clearly no reserve on the dr horse but wonder what they were hoping to achieve on the Eventer. Also surprised the Totilas in utero didn't fetch more but then perhaps T himself has lost a bit of favour recently, or maybe it is just a reflection of the market.

I think it's great that Brightwells are holding this kind of sale but perhaps they need to critically review the selection criteria. The catalogue states that "X-rays have been assessed solely for the purpose of being suitable for this kind of auction and do not constitute a warranty of any kind" but what does suitable actually mean?
 
I've been told by a couple of vets that xrays are really only useful in many cases if viewed over time for changes. Obviously they may show something major - in which case you would assume they would not be in a performance sale. However if they show an anomaly it could be something that never effects a horses soundness or it could go lame very shortly afterwards.

Certainly I have known horses "fail" xrays to sell to America which have gone on for years with never a lame step. So was it right that they failed? I think if you showed an xray to 5 different vets you may get 5 different opinions but which one would be right?:confused:

Agree very surprised by the price of Ruth's dressage horse!
 
DarkHorseB said:
I've been told by a couple of vets that xrays are really only useful in many cases if viewed over time for changes. Obviously they may show something major - in which case you would assume they would not be in a performance sale. However if they show an anomaly it could be something that never effects a horses soundness or it could go lame very shortly afterwards.

Certainly I have known horses "fail" xrays to sell to America which have gone on for years with never a lame step. So was it right that they failed? I think if you showed an xray to 5 different vets you may get 5 different opinions but which one would be right?:confused:

Agree very surprised by the price of Ruth's dressage horse!
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I agree that one off x-rays are of limited value but I think where you have a selection procedure in place then it should be very stringent and people should really not be seeing anything in the x-rays that puts them off - they should be an extra reassurance that all is well. Obviously the horse could start to develop a spavin the next day or even break a leg on the way out of the ring but for me the x-rays should be as "perfect" as possible when completed. Although take your point that different vets are likely to come to different conclusions and also, who decides what "perfect" looks like?

Just seen on the BD forum that the Ruth Edge dressage horse was just a nicely produced but fairly ordinary horse and they suspected £40k reserve on the eventer - if that's the case they possibly sold it outside the ring. Have to say though that I've not seen any nicely produced young horses (ordinary or otherwise) advertised that cheaply!!
 
Regarding xrays at auction. Every horse is clinically vetted and x-rayed. The xrays are graded 1-3. 1 is completely clean, nothing visible at all. Only one horse on Saturday at Brightwells had 1 x-rays. 2 means something is visible but not considered clinically significant, and insurers will accept them and not exclude. 3 means something is seen on the x-rays and it is considered clinically significant, grade 3 x-rays are often not insurable. Most horses had grade 2 x-rays, which are good enough that at a private sales vetting, few vets would even mention the findings and they don't have to go on the vets cert. Grade 3 certainly do, and would include possible OCD chips. A few of the horses presented on Saturday had grade 3 x-rays. One at least was (to me) visibly not quite sound when ridden. So, go figure.

The vettings are done by British vets to British standards, but the horses that come in from the continent are vetting in their home countries also prior to selection.
 
Halfstep said:
Regarding xrays at auction. Every horse is clinically vetted and x-rayed. The xrays are graded 1-3. 1 is completely clean, nothing visible at all. Only one horse on Saturday at Brightwells had 1 x-rays. 2 means something is visible but not considered clinically significant, and insurers will accept them and not exclude. 3 means something is seen on the x-rays and it is considered clinically significant, grade 3 x-rays are often not insurable. Most horses had grade 2 x-rays, which are good enough that at a private sales vetting, few vets would even mention the findings and they don't have to go on the vets cert. Grade 3 certainly do, and would include possible OCD chips. A few of the horses presented on Saturday had grade 3 x-rays. One at least was (to me) visibly not quite sound when ridden. So, go figure.

The vettings are done by British vets to British standards, but the horses that come in from the continent are vetting in their home countries also prior to selection.
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Thanks for the explanation Halfstep, that's really useful, I wasn't aware how they judged x-rays. :)

I'm not sure about grade 2 x-rays being included as I don't know how many horses would realistically have Grade 1 x-rays. Part of me thinks that the reason for having an elite sale is that only the very best are selected and that this should also extend to the x-ray results. Anything to give you the best chance possible of having a sound horse long term, it's enough of a lottery as it is!

In my opinion any horse with grade 3 x-rays has no place in this type of sale. I can't believe that there are not enough nice horses with clean x-rays that they need to make up the numbers in such a way.

I would be interested to hear what other people think about the x-rays and how realistic it would be to only include Grade 1's?
 
Matafleur said:
Thanks for the explanation Halfstep, that's really useful, I wasn't aware how they judged x-rays. :)

I'm not sure about grade 2 x-rays being included as I don't know how many horses would realistically have Grade 1 x-rays. Part of me thinks that the reason for having an elite sale is that only the very best are selected and that this should also extend to the x-ray results. Anything to give you the best chance possible of having a sound horse long term, it's enough of a lottery as it is!

In my opinion any horse with grade 3 x-rays has no place in this type of sale. I can't believe that there are not enough nice horses with clean x-rays that they need to make up the numbers in such a way.

I would be interested to hear what other people think about the x-rays and how realistic it would be to only include Grade 1's?
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I think the fact that one horse out of 50 plus had grade 1 means it would be completely unrealistic to include only grade 1 xrays. However I agree surely not the place to include grade 3 - surely the sellers would be better to sell privately and hope no one xrayed than advertise the horses issues which may even cast doubts on sire and dam I'd have thought?:confused:
 
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