Bringing my horse's nose in

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Hello everyone, I've recently been having lessons on my youngster with a new instructor. When in trot and canter he sticks his nose out. I have been told to lock my elbows and do half halt like movements on his mouth however I do not like doing this as it seems very uncomfortable for him. The pressure on his mouth is constant. I'm not really sure what I should be doing and I know feel really confused. Has anyone got any advice on what I can do to help bring my youngsters nose in and get him to work on the bit in a kind way? Thanks everybody :)
 
My advice is to leave his nose/mouth alone and find yourself a new (better) instructor. It seems to me that you know more than your instructor. The power should be coming from your horse's hind-quarters and when his muscles have developed correctly he will naturally work over his back and eventually his head carriage will bring his nose in.
 
Please don't focus on bringing his nose in.

Instead think about maintaining a soft consistent contact with his mouth, concentrating on it being even. Imagine a person holding the reins the other end and your job is to follow the pressure whether they move the reins towards or away from you.

Everything else is all about using your legs/thigh/bum to influence bend, change of direction and most importantly impulsion. Try and think about riding his hind legs towards the even contact.

I hope this makes sense - tbh I would change your instructor - good luck :)
 
I agree, instructor doesn't sound great...

LJR has great advice, at this stage I really wouldn't worry where his head is!! There are loads of great videos on youtube about training young horses, I will have a look when I get in later and post some that have helped me!
 
Pigeon said:
I agree, instructor doesn't sound great...

LJR has great advice, at this stage I really wouldn't worry where his head is!! There are loads of great videos on youtube about training young horses, I will have a look when I get in later and post some that have helped me!
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Please do! I have the opposite issue with my youngster, tucking his nose in!
 
I think it is really hard to comment on posts like this. No one knows what you are actually doing - you could be trotting around with flappy loose reins and then your idea of a constant pressure on his mouth could be the same as LJR saying have a soft consistent contact. I ride with far to light a contact, so when I take the right amount it feels hard - but I've got it wrong to start with. So saying change your instructor may be kind of harsh as no one knows what is really going on. If you don't feel happy with your instructor then change - but that needs to be your decision and not just because some randoms on HHO, with absolutely no first hand knowledge of what is happening, have said to do it.
 
If the OP was happy with the instructor she wouldnt be questioning the schooling. If you need to use force then you have got into a situation where the horse doesnt understand or simply cant comply and no good will come from force. Find a better instructor.
 
I use lots of hill work and raised trotting poles. Until your horse is using his back end and muscled enough on the back, you won't get 'an outline', on,y the horse slopping around on the the for hand and dragging the hind end, possibly over ending to escape the contact.

We went from this to this in 4 months using hill work and raised poles :)

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Still a work in progress but no gadgets or force used :) don't give up hope (and bin your instructor)
 
its really hard to say in the absence of video............1 client of mine is inclined to have basically zero contact and to allow allow allow all the time.

if you heard me shouting (encouraging shouting not nasty shouting) "keep hold of both sides of him, DO NOT let go, come on make sure you are holding the outside rein, HOLD THE OUTSIDE REIN" you might think we were heaving the poor boys head in, but for this rider that just gets her to take an even but still subtle contact.

from what you have said it doesnt sound great but let me ask:

if you leave him alone what does he tend to want to do? hollow up, pull you down,tuck nose in...

does he ever take a sudden pull at you and yank on your arms?

does he ever fling his head around?

im just trying to get an accurate picture before dishing out more advice :)
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
its really hard to say in the absence of video............1 client of mine is inclined to have basically zero contact and to allow allow allow all the time.

if you heard me shouting (encouraging shouting not nasty shouting) "keep hold of both sides of him, DO NOT let go, come on make sure you are holding the outside rein, HOLD THE OUTSIDE REIN" you might think we were heaving the poor boys head in, but for this rider that just gets her to take an even but still subtle contact.

from what you have said it doesnt sound great but let me ask:

if you leave him alone what does he tend to want to do? hollow up, pull you down,tuck nose in...

does he ever take a sudden pull at you and yank on your arms?

does he ever fling his head around?

im just trying to get an accurate picture before dishing out more advice :)
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Sorry to Hijack OP... its just that I am having lots of lessons to work on my contact at the moment after developing some quite bad habits with a different instructor so very interested in this!

Princess Sparkle - if I leave my boy alone, my pony will stretch his head to the floor, gradually getting more and more on his forehand. He is a native type, naturally built a little downhill. What would you recommend for this? thanks in advance.
 
well at least he seems confident in your hand and reasonably accepting of the contact-always a good sign that hes had a good start and much easier to work with than the ones that invert or fling their heads around and break your nose!

it sounds like you need to do loads of transitions and start some lateral work to get him to shift the weight back and tuck his pelvis.

so take up an appropriate contact so that he isnt nose to floor and make sure your transitions are achieving something-if you ask him to trot and he ignores you then a sharp kick or stinging flick with whip(depending on his level of reactivty!) and when you want walk, sit down, engage your tummy and ask for walk....if he pulls at you or falls on his head dont be afraid to reinforce to WHOAH and sit back with a sharper half halt (just the same as you reinforce an ignored leg).

if hes dropping lower and lower you might need to do a little upward half halt on your outside rein to bring the neck UP (dont worry if he over reacts and comes a little hollow, its ok and you mustnt confused him by then fiddling him back down), then close the leg and ride a transition or go sideways to engage him.
Shoulder in is brialliant for getting them to come more uphill as it forces you to ride the hind leg and contain the front end in a correct way.

do mini transitions too-trot, almost walk(to the point you feel him tuck his hips under to walk) then sharply trot on again. in the canter walk/canter/walk will help him tuck and sit.
lots of walk breaks as working him more up will make him sore if you over do it initially :)

but basically dont be afraid to use your contact to show him where you want him-people get so freaked out by using the hand but it is an aid at your disposal.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
well at least he seems confident in your hand and reasonably accepting of the contact-always a good sign that hes had a good start and much easier to work with than the ones that invert or fling their heads around and break your nose!

it sounds like you need to do loads of transitions and start some lateral work to get him to shift the weight back and tuck his pelvis.

so take up an appropriate contact so that he isnt nose to floor and make sure your transitions are achieving something-if you ask him to trot and he ignores you then a sharp kick or stinging flick with whip(depending on his level of reactivty!) and when you want walk, sit down, engage your tummy and ask for walk....if he pulls at you or falls on his head dont be afraid to reinforce to WHOAH and sit back with a sharper half halt (just the same as you reinforce an ignored leg).

if hes dropping lower and lower you might need to do a little upward half halt on your outside rein to bring the neck UP (dont worry if he over reacts and comes a little hollow, its ok and you mustnt confused him by then fiddling him back down), then close the leg and ride a transition or go sideways to engage him.
Shoulder in is brialliant for getting them to come more uphill as it forces you to ride the hind leg and contain the front end in a correct way.

do mini transitions too-trot, almost walk(to the point you feel him tuck his hips under to walk) then sharply trot on again. in the canter walk/canter/walk will help him tuck and sit.
lots of walk breaks as working him more up will make him sore if you over do it initially :)

but basically dont be afraid to use your contact to show him where you want him-people get so freaked out by using the hand but it is an aid at your disposal.
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Thank you so much for typing all that out for me... Working a lot on transitions, leg yield and turn on forehand with my instructor. Also, trying to "quieten down" my riding so that I'm not nagging or confusing him and develop a nice more consistent contact.
 
You can teach him to relax his jaw by doing in hand work - stand either at the front, or at the side, and take a rein in each hand about 6 inches from the bit. Apply light pressure evenly on both sides and wait.........................and wait, until you feel him just relax. Repeat until he relaxes immediately he feels the lightest of pressure, then do the same thing from the saddle. A relaxed jaw doesn't mean you need less pressure to bring his head in of course, it just means your contact can be light and he won't resist. The position of the head is determined by the back end - it's all about balance and engagement.
 
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Im also interested in what Prince33Sp4kle has to suggest for the OP's problem. I'm not entirely sure which poster the earlier reply was for but I think it was not for the OP! Thanks. :)
 
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